Multiplayer with PC and console users

[*Aqua*]

I know it's a bit very early to talk about it but I just stumpled upon this thought.

Will KSP allow cross-platform multiplayer, i. e. a PC and a console guy playing together?

Should KSP allow or prohibit it?

What is your opinion?

[cantab]

Yes, of course.

However, I see KSP multiplayer as being something between friends or on private servers. Without strong competitive elements and a well-defined "match" duration it's not a good fit for random matchups, and the potential for griefing along with the CPU demands make it not good for an MMO either.

[Streetwind]

I think KSP is one of those games without any major barriers to cross-platform multiplayer.

But it really depends how it is implemented infrastructure-wise. Does it require a dedicated server to be running (like DarkMultiplayer does)? Will Squad host or lease out official servers? And so on.

[theend3r]

...griefing along with the CPU demands...

Maybe they'll be able to keep each player's vessels physics local and just transmit their state. That would mean that only your things are simulated and therefore the only griefing could come from someone actually colliding with your craft.

You could have a squadron of 300 part planes flying with no lag.

[UniQueKakarot]

Maybe they'll be able to keep each player's vessels physics local and just transmit their state. That would mean that only your things are simulated and therefore the only griefing could come from someone actually colliding with your craft.

You could have a squadron of 300 part planes flying with no lag.

[AfailingHORSE]

The only stumbling block for this I can think of is the use of mods.

[Higgs]

I think multiplayer ksp is a bad idea period. If the game lages for too big of a craft by itself then it would halt completely in mp. #nomultiplayerksp

[Majorjim!]

I think KSP is one of those games without any major barriers to cross-platform multiplayer.

But it really depends how it is implemented infrastructure-wise. Does it require a dedicated server to be running (like DarkMultiplayer does)? Will Squad host or lease out official servers? And so on.

I will be amazed if Squad provide dedicated servers for multiplayer. This is both great and terrible at the same time. I will mostly be playing with my mate who has KSP or (something I am very much looking forward to) I will play with some people from this forum.

[Alshain]

I think multiplayer ksp is a bad idea period. If the game lages for too big of a craft by itself then it would halt completely in mp. #nomultiplayerksp

I have good news for you. You will never have to play it! The rest of us will enjoy it though.

Mod support will make cross platform unlikely, and I do hope there is some kind of mod support.

At one point some time ago, they said multiplayer would be very similar to Minecraft in nature. i.e. You can host your own server.

[Majorjim!]

I think multiplayer ksp is a bad idea period. If the game lages for too big of a craft by itself then it would halt completely in mp. #nomultiplayerksp

I can see your thinking here. I too fear it will be ruined by performance issues..

[Elthy]

I cant imagine how they want to keep several PCs with their own physic calculations in sync, it will propably be more like minecraft, where one player hosts the game and only the actions of others are transmitted.

[Gaarst]

At one point some time ago, they said multiplayer would be very similar to Minecraft in nature. i.e. You can host your own server.

I would enjoy multiplayer in KSP, but with a server system (the most likely to be), I have always wondered how will time warp be managed: what if you launch a mission to Eeloo in the server, and meanwhile, someone decides to play solely within the Kerbin system in x1 time warp or simply the server is set to function in x1 time warp ? Would you have to wait years IRL for your mission to arrive ? What if you miss your Eve/Duna launch window ? I can't find a simple solution to this problem, if anyone knows, please tell me

[technicalfool]

I would enjoy multiplayer in KSP, but with a server system (the most likely to be), I have always wondered how will time warp be managed: what if you launch a mission to Eeloo in the server, and meanwhile, someone decides to play solely within the Kerbin system in x1 time warp or simply the server is set to function in x1 time warp ? Would you have to wait years IRL for your mission to arrive ? What if you miss your Eve/Duna launch window ? I can't find a simple solution to this problem, if anyone knows, please tell me

DMP handles things in a number of ways, the most popular by far being the subspace method. If someone warps ahead, they split off into their own subspace. You can choose to shift your time line forwards to sync with people who are further ahead in universe time than you are.

Also it's very difficult to have any multiplayer game without some kind of server, even if the server is built into the game rather than being a separate executable. One machine needs to either handle the calculations, or in DMP's case, act as a message relay and universe database. Except perhaps for some very simple or particular games, pretty much every multiplayer game runs on a server/client architecture of some sorts.

As for whether Squad will provide paid servers, I don't know. It wouldn't surprise me if they partnered with someone (Multiplay maybe?) in order to provide a service. So you could have a Minecraft-like option where you can use private servers or pay for "Realms".

Edited August 26, 2015 by technicalfool

[Alshain]

FYI: DMP Subspace = Instancing. So if you have ever played an MMO, you should understand that concept but the only difference is DMP allows the instances to be merged on command.

The biggest complication with Multiplayer is if you do it as an afterthought like Squad and Mojang did, it is a lot harder. Mojang had to re-factor the entire game, I believe they called it "

". The issue comes with separation. Developing multiplayer can be like a separate game, or you can make it so single player is multiplayer with no internet connection. Originally Minecraft was the former, two separate games, one for Multiplayer and one for Single Player. Later, after the great refactoring, single player games are just multiplayer games run on a local server without an outside connection, so the code is unified making it a lot easier. I fear Squad hasn't come to that point of realization yet like Mojang did.

Ideally, games companies should be developing with multiplayer in mind from the start. Then they don't have to do this refactoring business which is long and complex. Sadly, that rarely happens and most companies go in thinking they will do Multiplayer later.

Edited August 26, 2015 by Alshain

[superm18]

I think its doable, now that win 10 has integrated xbox-thingie

[dsonbill]

I think KSP is one of those games without any major barriers to cross-platform multiplayer.

Except for, you know, Sony and Microsoft.

... but cross platform should be a option. I dont see why that shouldnt be possible in a game like this.

Because console.

I will be amazed if Squad provide dedicated servers for multiplayer. This is both great and terrible at the same time. I will mostly be playing with my mate who has KSP or (something I am very much looking forward to) I will play with some people from this forum.

Nope. Nope.avi. This is a given for PC, but it will *never* happen for PS4/XBone.

Mod support will make cross platform unlikely, and I do hope there is some kind of mod support.

Nope, nope, nope.

The reason you guys will never see cross-plat multiplayer, dedicated servers, and mod support on consoles is because of security. *No* console manufacturer is ever going to risk an "easy" way to hack the console. Sorry, it's just never going to happen.

Additionally, Sony and Microsoft have historically had some pretty strict restrictions on how server-based games operate on their consoles. For this reason you'll almost certainly never see a real dedicated server system on any console game.

FYI: DMP Subspace = Instancing. So if you have ever played an MMO, you should understand that concept but the only difference is DMP allows the instances to be merged on command.

Nah, that's not what a DMP subspace is. A subspace is just a point in time.

Edited August 26, 2015 by dsonbill

[Alshain]

Nope, nope, nope.

The reason you guys will never see cross-plat multiplayer, dedicated servers, and mod support on consoles is because of security. *No* console manufacturer is ever going to risk an "easy" way to hack the console. Sorry, it's just never going to happen.

Additionally, Sony and Microsoft have historically had some pretty strict restrictions on how server-based games operate on their consoles. For this reason you'll almost certainly never see a real dedicated server system on any console game.

You quoted me saying "Nope nope nope" and then wrote a statement agreeing with me.

[xtoro]

Wrong game to be multiplayer. This would really only work well and be easy to play if there was no time warp. But you need it. Perhaps if it was all on the surface of Kerbin only, or if there was only Kerbin and the Mun to play on.

[dsonbill]

You quoted me saying "Nope nope nope" and then wrote a statement agreeing with me.

I'm saying nope to mod support. Mod support will never, ever, ever happen on a console game.

Wrong game to be multiplayer. This would really only work well and be easy to play if there was no time warp. But you need it. Perhaps if it was all on the surface of Kerbin only, or if there was only Kerbin and the Mun to play on.

Nah bro. Multiplayer is easy. Subspaces are simple.

It's honestly the most simple concept you could ever have. All a subspace is, is a time. You're in a specific subspace, you're in a specific time. The orbits are propagated by time in KSP, so that's all you need.

[Frozen_Heart]

Multiplatform would be nice. Would increase the playerbase and keep more ppl connected.

[Majorjim!]

You quoted me saying "Nope nope nope" and then wrote a statement agreeing with me.

He confused me too with this statement:

Nope. Nope.avi. This is a given for PC, but it will *never* happen for PS4/XBone.

Dsonbill, here you are saying no to what I said and then seeming to agree with me. I too am

[dsonbill]

ere you are saying no to what I said and then seeming to agree with me. I too am

Orly?

You said:

I will be amazed if Squad provide dedicated servers for multiplayer.

And I'm telling you:

For PC, you will get it. For consoles, not in a million years.

[Alshain]

I'm saying nope to mod support. Mod support will never, ever, ever happen on a console game.

Oh well I'm saying nope to cross platform and yes to modded multiplayer (on PC/Mac/Linux). I'm well aware it won't work on consoles, and I don't care because anyone who is serious about this game wont be playing it on consoles. This is the more likely scenario anyway. I doubt Squad is going to turn their back on the mod developers and modding community. If they do they might as well not even bother with multiplayer at all.

[xtoro]

Nah bro. Multiplayer is easy. Subspaces are simple.

It's honestly the most simple concept you could ever have. All a subspace is, is a time. You're in a specific subspace, you're in a specific time. The orbits are propagated by time in KSP, so that's all you need.

I just mean playing with others who aren't in sync with you just leads to frustration. I tried dmp a few times. But say I head out to Jool and everyone is busy doing other stuff, then I fly something back. Now I'm years ahead of everyone else and they might not sync up with me for a long time, unless they just want to.

[cantab]

I'm saying nope to mod support. Mod support will never, ever, ever happen on a console game.

You're flat out wrong. Unreal Tournament 3 on PS3 had mods, and Fallout 4 on XBox One will.