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Surface Sample Weights - One persons play method


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Hi there - I'm working my way through my first career mode game after a longtime of small bitsy mucking around the kerbin system in sandbox mode. In my modded career mode, I'm playing with Dang-it, Kerbal Engineer and some other minor mods. I've recently exhusted most of the science on Minmus. This was due to the massive science run when I found the crater that had 4/5 biomes in close proximity all in the same crater. I kind of regret getting almost all the science in 2 trips, as I wont get back to Minmus until I've got Ore extraction technology available. (assuming I work out how to transport it - that stuff is heavy!)

Anyway - As I'm planning my missions to the Mun, I felt the overwhelming desire to make it 'mean more' that a science collection run.

TLDR

I'd like for the surface sample report to add weight to the ship for each report gathered.

Too many surface samples and you'll find you might not be able to get back home.... how that's balanced in the game if the suggestion is ever taken up, I have no idea. Maybe the weight is an actual resource used in the science tree for something - no idea really.

I couldn't find anything in the mods forum section that did that - I've assumed that the available API with regards to the science reports doesn't allow a lot of (mod) flexibility at the moment - other than within the current method of gathering the various data reports. So I cobbled together a few mods that allow me to do a slightly manual representation of something 'like' this suggestion...

Mods I'm using to kinda sorta make this work for me:

Resource Generation Module (RGM)

---I'm not a modder, but I can work out how to edit a cfg file. I found this old mod by Fel that still works in 1.0.4 and after following the doc Fel included, I managed to get it to add a button to a container that would add a resource (Rocks in this case) at a set rate while the button was on. If I click the button again, it would stop adding that resource to the container. Ok - now I can use this process to represent the surface samples I'm returning from the Mun. The resources themselves mean nothing other than the weight they add to the ship.

The thematic bonus is that the RGM only adds the resource and I can't remove them. If I add too much - then so be it. (Obviously Bob found some rock samples that he absolutely couldn't leave behind.)

CommunityResourcePack

---I tweaked the Rock resource to set the weight to be 150KG for every 10 units. I could of made a new resource for surface samples, but this was already there. Also - looking up the official lunar missions on wiki I see they returned about 110Kg of samples on their last trip, so I'm in the ballpark of a weight that seems right.

The weight of the Rock resource was tweaked around some random requirements I made for myself:

- make a small rocket for under 5.5K in funds (my rocket ended up with a delta/v of 2k)

(and assuming a return trip needs 600 to land 600 to ascend and 300 to get back - all rough numbers from a delta V map I found on the net)

- I wanted each 10 units of rock to knock off 200m/s off the return trip.

- wanted 2 return samples to be a borderline achievable return trip (more so with my inability to land without using less than 750/800m/s of delta V with this design)

- allow for adjustment of the sample weight until it was 'just enough' to allow a small rocket to land and only have enough delta V for a return trip to kerbin with 1-2 samples from the Mun.

This edited resource, combined with the above RGS, meant I could add an amount of the Rocks resource to a container on my Mun lander/rocket. The downside was that the RGS adds resources like the fuel transfer system (but with only one container) which means it's not an integer number and there wasn't an easy way to get a specific number of said resouce. So I just set the transfer rate to be slow enough so I could stop the transfer at a close enough number. (again blaming Bob for any addition over the rough quota I'd set of 10.0 units per sample.)

Custom Part

I added a new part (used the model asset for another mod - KIS I think, but it could of been a goo canister. I just liked the look of the KIS crate container) This would act as my surface sample return crate. I added the rock Resource to it with a starting value of 0, max of 100 (10 reports). I also added the science container Module so it would allow a Kerbal to store their surface sample reports via EVA in the same crate. Lastly, I added the RGS module that allowed me to add the button that add rocks to my crate.

None of how I'm playing this is a packaged 'mod' in any form. It's just a selection of existing mods and cobbled together ideas from mods that would be nice if someone put it together as a 'mod' or even an expandable option in the science reports API that allowed those reports have actions occur like add a resource to a tank/container when performed.

How I play to achieve this effect

If I get Bill to take a science report for a surface sample, I force myself to add about 10 units of Rocks to the container I set up. This lowers my available delta V for a return trip and ensures that I plan how much fuel I have with me and weigh that up against how many surface sample reports I want to bring back.

Anyway, this surface-sample 'weight penalty' method is what I'm applying to myself to ensure it adds a 'bit' of a deterent to trying to grab a stack of science reports in one mission. And this meant something to me in achieving this because the surface samples were the highest paying science points. The actual science report also has to come back with the rock weight.

I even managed to come up with a plan that involved 2/3 small sample return rockets that I would land in advance along my planned rover route. So I don't just beast-mode it and add a heap of fuel/high power rocket engines, I limited the sample return rocket to be under a 5.5k fund limit for the Mun decent/accent return stage. This severely limited how much delta-v that small rocket could have.

This was done all so I could land a kerbal in a rover (I think I can land that too - it's heavy!), take surface sample science reports as I rove around the various biomes. When I eventually come across my sample return rockets (which also act as waypoints for the rover trip), I drop off the surface sample science report/s (adding ~10units of rocks to each sample report I added to the crate) and send it on it's way back to Kerbin while Bill looks for the next sample. If I managed to land the sample return rockets well, I could get 2 samples back, if not, I make do with 1 sample per rocket. If the entire venture gets old, I'll just load up 1 rocket and boost for the Mun station and get them to pick up the reports and deal with it later with a seperate return craft.

I'm hopeless at designing rockets and I'm sure that adding a few 100kgs of deadweight to a rocket probably poses no problems to those who know what they are doing in the game. Having said that - I'm sure the "surface sample" weight could be tweaked to be more meaningful for those better at this than me, but it's just the idea I'm playing with at the moment.

Hopefully pictures will help convey what I'm trying to suggest a lot better than the mess listed above. :)

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Edited by wile1411
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This is pretty easy to implement. Samples are handled by a PartModule and PartModules can make use of an interface to add mass.

I'm not sure how much impact it would actually have though given the scale of the universe and engine power and delta V requirements needed for orbit. (that is to say, for example, how much sample mass can you get away with adding to a Mun lander before its ability to reach orbit is threatened given the low thrust and low delta V requirement needed to leave)

Edit: Oops I missed the part where you actually were dealing with specifics of mass in kg in what you're already doing.

Edited by Starwaster
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  • 10 months later...

Hah! Only just now learnt there is a mod for adding weight (Mass) to a Kerbal - made by @*Aqua*

Might dig into the code and see if I can make a mod to add weight to surface samples. :) yay! time for some coding - as soon as I find out how to start a mod for KSP. :confused:

 

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On 8/27/2015 at 0:24 PM, wile1411 said:

Having the crew have weight is all good, but how does that effect game play? It's make capsules slightly heavier and that about it no? Also, I can't think they would change any deltaV by much.

A Kerbal, all suited up, weighs (iirc) about 100Kg.  That's not insignificant, especially for a small vessel, (take 5 crew and that's half a tonne).  So yes I think it would make a worthwhile and noticeable difference, if not especially large in most cases.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I personally think the weight of a handful of soil or water would be quite insignificant until you start getting down to ridiculously small craft (about in the 0.1-0.4 ton range), at which point it probably won't be manned anyways.

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But the weight of everything matters to some degree. If we had a standard sample weight of say 1kg,  which is a lot for a scoop of soil I know, but it's enough to be worth considering and easy to add up.

Maybe even currently where you collect a single sample to get X science it's not a big issue.  

But if you had perhaps a contract to get 10 surface samples from 'this biome' that would need to be taken 'say' more than 500m apart to ensure a representation of the whole area.  Suddenly you not only have a potential proper use for a rover, but also the weight of the samples to consider when designing your vessels.

The weight of the Moon rocks returned by Apollo were a very important consideration they had to plan for.

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