taniwha

[1.5] Kethane Plugin and Parts 0.10.0 - Now with background scanning.

Recommended Posts

As detailed in this post, Majiir has handed me the reins for looking after Kethane, particularly putting the geodesic grid code under the BSD licence and sub-licensing the models to me so I may distribute them with Kethane.

Download: Kethane 0.10.0

As of Kethane 0.10.0, background scanning is supported:

kethane-scanning.jpg

NOTE: As always, ElectricCharge is a concern. Stock RTGs (or anything that uses ModuleGenerator and produces only ElectricCharge without consuming any resources) and stock solar panels (ModuleDeployableSolarPanel, same resource constraints) are supported.

WARNING: if using solar panels, be sure to leave the scanner while in the sun, otherwise the panels will not work while the vessel is unloaded as Kethane simply records how much EC is being generated by the vessel's panels and then checks whether the scanner is in the sun or not.

Source code (github): Kethane, Geodesic Grid

License: Overall license (Majiir's repository)

Edited by taniwha
  • Like 16

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Congratulations on taking over Kethane, taniwha. Looking forward to seeing what you do to it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is fabulous. Thank you for keeping Kethane alive.

Insta-watch!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is there going to be a version that uses the stock resource system?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

_Augustus_: not the stock distribution or scanning (I find the playability of stock to be lacking), but I am considering making the converters and extractors use the stock modules to get background processing (or just do it locally).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
_Augustus_: not the stock distribution or scanning (I find the playability of stock to be lacking), but I am considering making the converters and extractors use the stock modules to get background processing (or just do it locally).
You forgot to convert the textures to DDS, by the way..

I would certainly make a stock version as it saves RAM.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I would certainly make a stock version as it saves RAM.

How so ?

Good news about the GeodesicGrid license and new Ke maintainer :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

pardon my lack of knowledge, but how does Kethane differ from the stock resource system or, for that matter, from Karbonite?

Thanks!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
pardon my lack of knowledge, but how does Kethane differ from the stock resource system or, for that matter, from Karbonite?

Thanks!

It looks somewhat better and had been around longer.

Also Karbonite uses the stock resource system.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kethane deposits are discrete, the planet is divided into hexes that either have it or don't, and they're randomised. Ore and Karbonite use a concentration-based system and can be configured to follow the planet's terrain.

Kethane deposits are finite and can be mined out forcing you to move on. Ore and Karbonite are limitless letting you leave a base in one spot permanently.

Kethane scanning takes time, stock ore scanning is instant. One of the first things I'd like to see improved in Kethane is timewarp scanning by the way.

Kethane equipment is considerably lighter than ore equipment.

Kethane can make xenon, ore cannot.

Kethane is focussed on mining, with just a single engine using raw kethane (a jet that doesn't require oxygen). Karbonite has lots of engines.

Kethane doesn't care about Kerbals. Ore requires engineers.

Overall I'd say Kethane is well suited to a lightweight nomadic style of ISRU, making pit stops on planets during the course of a journey. Ore and Karbonite are well suited to more permanent operations.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another difference is that there is a significant difference in the degree of mod interop and support for stock vs Kethane (and was before Regolith was stock). So the stock system tends to dovetail into more mods (including Karbonite).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, mod interoperability might improve now that Kethane is being properly maintained again. Kethane wasn't being properly maintained since around the time Karbonite was becoming popular and thus was at a disadvantage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Well, mod interoperability might improve now that Kethane is being properly maintained again.

On that subject, how about a simple API with something like: is location x scanned for resource y, and scan location x for resource y. :kiss:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

DMagic: Not tonight :P (I just spent the last 3 hours re-wrapping my head around the basic structure of the grid). I'm interested in such for extraction, too (the current code in EL is a mess).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kethane was the first mod I ever installed. Thanks for taking it over taniwha! And thanks to Majiir for letting it all continue on!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Taniwha. You might want to look at an issue. When setting one number too high example : the no of deposits it will take a long time to load. (TLDR you may want to review the code and optimise it)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow just wow it's be 1 year AND KNOW I GET TO PLAY Kethane OMG i don't know to say.By the way this is my first time posting on the ksp forum.:D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Glad to see this is back on the active mods list.

Kethane scanning takes time, stock ore scanning is instant. One of the first things I'd like to see improved in Kethane is timewarp scanning by the way.

Same here, it needs to be pretty much just like ScanSat.

Edited by Alshain

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Scanning works just fine in timewarp. Sure, you have to be there with the vessel, but I've scanned just fine at 1000x. Also, even with KAC pulling me away to do other stuff, the resulting gaps in the scan were not a big deal. Without interruptions, the scan will be close to done after a nice discussion about burning inward vs burning outward to perform a 180 degree rendezvous on IRC or some time spent browsing the forums :).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I set up the 1m and 2m converters to use the moduleResourceConverter, and submitted two pull requests. One is just a straight up port, and the other mass-balances the conversions so craft won't gain/lose mass as the convert kethane into other things. I used to ignore mass balancing things, but a question RoverDude asked me made me start paying closer attention to it.

The math is at https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11H1hLzPzBl2pBNYymQwinJCxgsket9GIGNfUSgvfn1g/edit?usp=sharing

There are two basic problems to cope with:

1.) KSP deals with things in liters, and you can't balance the mass equations unless everything has the same density.

2.) Even though the kethane resource is based on methane, there is some magical alchemy making atoms appear. Even if we assume the kethane resource is really, really dirty (has oxygen and xenon mixed in), just saying that doesn't make it easy to mass balance.

Hope this helps in the effort.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kethane doesn't care about Kerbals.

Hah.. your right on that point... i seem to remember a part that would convert Kerbals to kethane, (cant remember its name)

On topic: Thanks for taking it over Taniwha, while i dont use it actively, it was one of the first mods I had ever used! And it has a special place :)

I would second the idea of switching over at least extraction and conversion to the stock system, so that they can be done in the background, (if you cant find a way to make kethane do that)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

KSP doesn't use litres for resources, it uses entirely arbitrary units. The mass per unit for every resource is specified in appropriate files. I believe the Community Resource Pack people use litres for their resources (a decision I disagree with), but there are strong reasons to believe that's not the case for the stock resources. Last I check the latest version of kethane no longer broke conservation of mass, it's something like 0.9 kg of product for 1 kg of kethane.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
As detailed in this post, Majiir has handed me the reins for looking after Kethane, particularly putting the geodesic grid code under the BSD licence and sub-licensing the models to me so I may distribute them with Kethane.

Download: Kethane 0.9.3

Source code (github): Kethane, Geodesic Grid (I have not yet forked the GeodesicGrid repository as I have not needed to modify anything)

License: Overall license (Majiir's repository)

Can you please upload this to Kerbalstuff and Curse?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

seanth: KSP working with volume instead of mass is why I wrote my own converters (derived from stock converters) for EL: they do all the math so that inputs are specified by mass for resources with non-zero density (or just resource units for zero-density resources). I plan on porting over (and relicensing) the relevant code.

Yes, magical resources are rather nasty for coming up with a reasonable mass balance. However, I never considered Kethane to be based on methane. I prefer to think of it as something like a benzene ring with multiple -OH and -NH2 branches, or maybe even a level-1 (or maybe 0) geodesic (buckyball). This even gives a chance for the molecule to trap xenon in the structure. Still magical, but it gives you H, C, N, O and a plausible reason for Xe, and better yet something from which mass ratios can be determined. Another nice thing is that a geodesic of any level has exactly three edges connected to each vertex, which works very well for carbon, leaving one bond for the -H, -OH and -NH2 branches, or some vertices could be nitrogen (with no place for a branch).

I have done some experimental modeling in blender, and it turns out that a single xenon atom fits nicely inside a level-1 geodesic carbon ball (C80) assuming C-C bond lengths of ~150pm and using Van der Waal's radii of 170pm for C and 216pm for Xe.

How to make a level-N geodesic in blender: add an ico sphere mesh with N+1 subdivisions. Add a level-1 Catmull-Clark subdivion modifier (ctrl-1) and apply it. Edit the mesh and select a single vertex in the center of a pentagon (the topmost vert works well) and then "shift-G: amount of connecting edges" to select the centers of all pentagons. x-d to dissolve these verts. Then select the vertex at the center of a hexagon (for N > 0), and repeat the selecting/dissolution process as for pentagons. Then select the vertex at the center of an edge and once again repeat the select/dissolve process. You will be left with a level-N geodesic grid. Using N=5 (6 subdivisions for the ico sphere) will give the same grid as Kethane uses.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now