Pak

[1.7.1] Cormorant Aeronology - Mk3 Space Shuttle

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7 hours ago, Pak said:

Thanks @Snark

Dudes

It works and it was surprisingly easy. I'm suspicious

Not the most glamorous solution but it's done in stock. Works normally as yaw control and deploys out with an action group

1ENHSPQ.png?2

 

Oh my gawd, that is amazing!

 

On the topic of the angled backside, I would go for 10 degrees too. That's what I always use as the engine angle.

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11 hours ago, Pak said:

Thanks @Snark

Dudes

It works and it was surprisingly easy. I'm suspicious

Not the most glamorous solution but it's done in stock. Works normally as yaw control and deploys out with an action group

1ENHSPQ.png?2

 

I'm really excited to see the possibility of a split-rudder being included in this mod pack. In the past, when I've tried to do this through mirroring the tail, I've ended up weird situations where control surface reversal would end up deploying the rudder in the same direction, inducing a massive yaw, and resulting in a flat spin. It's really frustrating and I'm sure it's a mod conflict. To see a part that supports it out of the box should fix the issue and seeing it deployed via action group is awesome too.

 

I love this mod, thanks for all your hard work!

 

Also, does anyone have any advice on how to solve the issue where the landing gear are extremely bouncy? I keep having the issue of touching down and then bouncing back up into the air pretty high. I've tried adjusting the spring and damper but I don't really understand how they work well enough to fix the issue. I'm also touching down around ~100 m/s which is pretty fast to be going. Any less and I have a hard time pulling my nose up. I'm using FAR, by the way.

Edited by Spartan-S63

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27 minutes ago, Spartan-S63 said:

Also, does anyone have any advice on how to solve the issue where the landing gear are extremely bouncy? I keep having the issue of touching down and then bouncing back up into the air pretty high. I've tried adjusting the spring and damper but I don't really understand how they work well enough to fix the issue. I'm also touching down around ~100 m/s which is pretty fast to be going. Any less and I have a hard time pulling my nose up. I'm using FAR, by the way.

I know your pain :D 

WbxRvu4.gif

If your nose wheel is clipped inside the body, or rotated at all, I'd suggest you investigate that. While I didn't have to stop it clipping in, I had to adjust the rotation of it and pull it down a bit before it stopped.

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@Pak This is a novel approach to adding a flat bottom to the Mk3 parts, well done! :) One suggestion for somewhere down the road is to just have the flat bottom slab without the Mk3-shaped back piece, done in the three cargobay lengths (2.5, 5, and 10m). A similar piece could be made for the Mk3 cockpit. That would give players more options for building their shuttles.

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1 hour ago, MrMeeb said:

I know your pain :D 

WbxRvu4.gif

If your nose wheel is clipped inside the body, or rotated at all, I'd suggest you investigate that. While I didn't have to stop it clipping in, I had to adjust the rotation of it and pull it down a bit before it stopped.

It's not an issue of my nose wheel, it's actually when my main gear touchdown, the spring compression ends up bouncing me back into the air a good 50 meters or so. Maybe I'm not slowing myself enough for touchdown that it bounces me back into the air and I continue gliding. Again, I'm touching down around ~100 m/s. I typically try to stay above that because any air speed below and I have a hard time raising my nose again. Then again, I'm typically pitching at greater than 10 degrees on touchdown which is pretty steep for main gear touchdown.

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25 minutes ago, Spartan-S63 said:

It's not an issue of my nose wheel, it's actually when my main gear touchdown, the spring compression ends up bouncing me back into the air a good 50 meters or so. Maybe I'm not slowing myself enough for touchdown that it bounces me back into the air and I continue gliding. Again, I'm touching down around ~100 m/s. I typically try to stay above that because any air speed below and I have a hard time raising my nose again. Then again, I'm typically pitching at greater than 10 degrees on touchdown which is pretty steep for main gear touchdown.

Interesting. I don't think AoA would have to great an impact on bouncing, but I would suggest looking at your vertical speed upon touch down; you could be coming down too hard.

Also, try leaving the dampener at a normal setting, but turning spring down to 0. In my experience, the spring can go crazy and just cause things to bounce around. Comical, but not practical :P 

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22 minutes ago, Angel-125 said:

@Pak This is a novel approach to adding a flat bottom to the Mk3 parts, well done! :) One suggestion for somewhere down the road is to just have the flat bottom slab without the Mk3-shaped back piece, done in the three cargobay lengths (2.5, 5, and 10m). A similar piece could be made for the Mk3 cockpit. That would give players more options for building their shuttles.

Yep. I'm working on reintroducing modular sections

8 minutes ago, Spartan-S63 said:

It's not an issue of my nose wheel, it's actually when my main gear touchdown, the spring compression ends up bouncing me back into the air a good 50 meters or so. Maybe I'm not slowing myself enough for touchdown that it bounces me back into the air and I continue gliding. Again, I'm touching down around ~100 m/s. I typically try to stay above that because any air speed below and I have a hard time raising my nose again. Then again, I'm typically pitching at greater than 10 degrees on touchdown which is pretty steep for main gear touchdown.

Wheels are a bit of a mess since 1.1. The high speed is probably bringing more of the glitchiness out than you'd normally see. Like MrMeeb said try messing with the spring strength. It seems like Spring-1.0 only works with pretty heavy craft, so setting it below 1 will make it less bouncy depending on your mass. They'll get fixed eventually though

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4 hours ago, StevieC said:

Small suggestion for @Pak to consider: an EDO pallet?

And yes. I'm planning on some more shuttle utility parts like the decoupler and fuel cell. Something like the EDO would be a good idea with some life support compatibility.

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I'm also pleased to see that the improved wings you're working on seem to include the dihedral angle that was present in the real space-shuttle's wings.

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Could someone explain to me whereabouts the centre of lift should be located relative to the centre of mass, if the shuttle's constructed properly? I'm having some issues with control, but I can't get the lift centre to be anywhere but behind and below CoM, which I don't think is stable?

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20 minutes ago, FlyMeToTheMinmus said:

Could someone explain to me whereabouts the centre of lift should be located relative to the centre of mass, if the shuttle's constructed properly? I'm having some issues with control, but I can't get the lift centre to be anywhere but behind and below CoM, which I don't think is stable?

That's the best you're going to get it. It's fine so long as you're flying straight and level. As soon as you start rolling to turn, you start inducing a side slip. If you rotate the vehicle in the SPH and look at the CoM and CoL placement, you'll see that the center of lift acts differently when the vehicle is no longer belly-down.

 

There's really no good solution to the issue. It's mostly just being gentle with the controls and understanding what your flight characteristics are.

Edited by Spartan-S63

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^ Generally the best solution, particularly when it comes to things emulating the Orbiter, isn't an engineering one so much as a procedural one. The real orbiter, during the glide into landing, took a very wide and gentle turn. 

This is because the COL is moving forward heavily with both actions, so you have to be very light on the stick and give yourself plenty of breathing room. Even the Cormorant orbiter still has a lot of glide time, so don't think you're in a tight spot in most places.

In KSP is this actually pretty easy depending on the mission as most of the time you'll be re-entering from an equatorial orbit for landing at an equatorial site, meaning if you do it perfectly all you have to do is get on a good glide slope for landing after you reenter. 

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Really stupid question, but I downloaded this mod through CKAN, but it doesnt seem to be recognizing in the game. My addon checker doesnt show it, not to mention the parts arent available in the VAB / SHB

 

Think I got it, Thanks guys

Edited by alexx2208

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Good stuff, guys

 

Here's how the angled shuttle-butt is looking with a tiny Roskerbmos preview. Went with 10 degrees on the engine nodes. I like it.

CYQLphF.png?1

And here's a rough look at my current plan for the engine mounts. 2 parts (angled and flat) with the option to turn off the standard sized bottom and add your own.

llDfZfX.png?1

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Man Pak, this is getting better and better and then great....

Looking forward to getting the split rudder and angled back plane.  I hate having to mess with the rotation crud in the VAB...

Cheers and thanks for all of the great work.

 

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One other tiny suggestion: Add a part that lets the flat-bottom smoothly transition to allow other non-stock mk3 cockpits to be used, which don't fit the Cormorant nose? This sort of a part would be useful on either side of a low-wing mount, for a simple jetliner, for example, or potentially used on the top of a fuselage to make a high-winged transport plane.

Edited by StevieC

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Thanks drtedastro. Glad you're enjoying it.

 

6 hours ago, StevieC said:

flat-bottom smoothly transition to allow other non-stock mk3 cockpits to be used, which don't fit the Cormorant nose?

Iiinnnteresting...

 

After wasting some hours looking at FTP's 'way too complicated for me' mesh switcher setup I stumbled into a simpler way to do it. So I'm on track with the new shuttle-butts.

Now we're gettin' somewhere

tJavgcf.png?1

 

 

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So, dumb question, but is there going to be a retexture of the Mk.3 cockpit itself to remove the grey area and replace it with a black heattile texture?

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Definitely interesting.

 

@Pak also one small request. Can you make sure Cormorant plays well with Engineering tech tree:

...for progression's sake

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Bro, those are some sick hydraulics

rzuA95M.gif?1

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1 hour ago, MrMeeb said:

Bro, those are some sick hydraulics

rzuA95M.gif?1

Kerbal Low Riders! Even has a Convertible hard top!

 

@MrMeeb, I've never seen that error. Install issue of another mod, or game file corruption maybe?

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2 minutes ago, sharpspoonful said:

Kerbal Low Riders! Even has a Convertible hard top!

 

@MrMeeb, I've never seen that error. Install issue of another mod, or game file corruption maybe?

:D 

I hadn't really considered that if I'm honest, but I doubt it. I think it's just the wheels being a bit buggy in the current state. Food for thought though.

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