[1.3.1][Kopernicus] Uncharted Lands v0.5.4 [26Dec17]

[KillAshley]

What scares me is that crater and the nearby canyon's walls are nearly VERTICAL.

they are vertical

gotta watch out not to land too close lol

[Sharkman Briton]

Flew around near KSC in a little recon plane, landed on the Equatorial Sands and took some beautiful pics!

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Next on the list is to launch a rocket into LKO.

[Sharkman Briton]

Okay, some advice for all who mighth need it.

Kerbin's atmosphere ends at 77km.

DV to get into orbit: I used a bit over 5.4km/s, but had quite a bit left over, so I suggest either 4.4km/s or 4.8km/s. (I used 5.4km/s to get into a rather high orbit at 310x233km)

Procedural parts is useful, as it allows you to optimize your stuff and reduces part count for your rockets, this is especially good in UL as rockets need to be a bit bigger than in stock.

The setup I used to get a 125kg satellite into orbit is very simple, I wont go into much detail. But this is basically it.

Satellite, with a small orbit insertion stage below it, an LV-909 is sufficient here.

Below that goes a rather lengthy tank with a rocket engine, I suggest something with low thrust and relatively high ISP, doesn't matter is the thrust is rather low because we will use an SRB stage on the side of the tank, with 0.650m diameter SRBs with Procedural Parts (though I used SpaceY ones). The SRB's should ignite first, get the rocket off of the ground and then seperate before the main stage ignites, the way I set it up (I used the AB Launchers "Seal" engine) it lasted for a rather long time. I used an ascent profile of nearly on the top hemisphere of the navball's line at 100m/s, if you know what I mean by that. Once you get to a desirable apoapsis (or the tank runs out (I did that because I didn't really know when the atmosphere ended then)) at the apoapsis I got (a bit over 200km) it took about 1.3km/s to circularize, while my upper stage had about double that.

Good luck launching!

- - - Updated - - -

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[Whirligig Girl]

The delta-V difference really isn't actually that noticeable from stock; the Kerbal X rocket can still easily accomplish it's Mun landing mission and it can still not quite return. You do have to change how you do ascents, the gravity turn will be a bit different.

[BinaryBad]

I'm loving this mod. Even just a trip to Minmus (not easy, as it has a tiny SOI) is spectacular. I've tried several planet packs, but none have quite stirred me to the extent this one has.

http://imgur.com/gallery/dyq6V

Edited November 2, 2015 by BinaryBad

[Hyperdoom]

Wow, these really are breathtaking. Nice work!

[birdspider]

how is it seeded ? some sort of default seed or is every new game different or do I missunderstand the concept ?

[Svm420]

how is it seeded ? some sort of default seed or is every new game different or do I missunderstand the concept ?

You misunderstand

[Sylandro]

Hey Ashley, how about adding a planet inbetween Kerbin and Eve, and a planet inbetween Kerbin and the Laythe-Tylo Barycenter?

[timandy1]

RemoteTech doesn't really work with this, the "Command Center" is still where the old KSC used to be. I understand that we shouldn't expect much mod support this early in development, but I assume it would be a simple fix.

[Sigma88]

RemoteTech doesn't really work with this, the "Command Center" is still where the old KSC used to be. I understand that we shouldn't expect much mod support this early in development, but I assume it would be a simple fix.

actually it's not such a "simple fix"

for how remote tech works, the only way would be to provide a cfg to overwrite the one generated by RT. this creates a whole bunch of errors for mods that check for the presence of RemoteTech

plus, in that file there are many others parameters saved, and overwriting it can mess up the parameters of people that are using RT (for example introducing signal delay, removing root mode, etc...)

don't mind all that, it's possible with a MM patch now, they must have changed it

Edited November 5, 2015 by Sigma88

[KillAshley]

Just a heads up, work is still progressing on UL, so far compatibility for DOE, Planetshine & RemoteTech have been added, and small alterations are underway too. For those wanting the patches they are already available from the master branch on my GitHub.

Anyone playing with career mode even in this early stage? Any issues with contracts and/or science?

[BinaryBad]

I am finding that my frame rate really drops when on the surface of the bodies I've visited so far (Minmus, Mun, Duna). Even with low part ships. I'm running KSP on 64 bit Linux, normally with 80 or so mods before hitting issues like this, but I've cleared out about 20 mods (getting rid of the bigger parts packs) and the fame rate is an issue. Anything we can do to mitigate it? (Appreciate that I should really try a complete clean install to be fair)

But my enthusiasm for the mod is undimmed. It looks eye-wateringly gorgeous and I've had some amazing fun exploring. Will avidly track it's progress.

[eddiew]

Definitely short listed this planet pack for 1.1, some interesting terrain on display in this thread :)

Tbh, it's a toss up between this and New Horizons + Outer Planets... Do UL and OP work together well? I always seem to hunger for [I]moar planets![/I]

[KillAshley]

[quote name='BinaryBad']I am finding that my frame rate really drops when on the surface of the bodies I've visited so far (Minmus, Mun, Duna). Even with low part ships. I'm running KSP on 64 bit Linux, normally with 80 or so mods before hitting issues like this, but I've cleared out about 20 mods (getting rid of the bigger parts packs) and the fame rate is an issue. Anything we can do to mitigate it? (Appreciate that I should really try a complete clean install to be fair)

But my enthusiasm for the mod is undimmed. It looks eye-wateringly gorgeous and I've had some amazing fun exploring. Will avidly track it's progress.[/QUOTE]

erm....is the frame issue on 1.0.5? or 1.0.4? I've heard of framerate iisue previously with other kopernicus packs, but it'll get looked into. I'll let you know when i get back to work on this

[quote name='eddiew']Definitely short listed this planet pack for 1.1, some interesting terrain on display in this thread :)

Tbh, it's a toss up between this and New Horizons + Outer Planets... Do UL and OP work together well? I always seem to hunger for [I]moar planets![/I][/QUOTE]

they will work together natively yes, OPM has it's orbits well out from the stock system so apart from a little fiddling with Eeloo (which I've yet to do) it should work fine seeing as this doesn't add in any new bodies. Note that a lot of UL is subject to change depending on how things turn out. It's still very early in dev atm, and I think we are all patiently waiting for the kopernicus update before we continue on.

[eddiew]

[quote name='KillAshley']Note that a lot of UL is subject to change depending on how things turn out. It's still very early in dev atm, and I think we are all patiently waiting for the kopernicus update before we continue on.[/QUOTE]

That's fine, I'm patiently waiting for Unity 5 and 64-bit before I come back to KSP in any shape, just not sure what sort of solar system I should be mentally gearing myself up for :)

Does UL tweak the solar system layout much? I really liked having Laythe as a warm inner-system world in NH - made it a really appealing early destination with a nice quick round trip and plenty of solar power ^^

[KillAshley]

[quote name='eddiew']That's fine, I'm patiently waiting for Unity 5 and 64-bit before I come back to KSP in any shape, just not sure what sort of solar system I should be mentally gearing myself up for :)

Does UL tweak the solar system layout much? I really liked having Laythe as a warm inner-system world in NH - made it a really appealing early destination with a nice quick round trip and plenty of solar power ^^[/QUOTE]

it changes up the layout quite a lot. Laythe is a cool oceania in a binary orbit with Tylo, it's the outside neighbour of Kerbin. :wink:

[eddiew]

[quote name='KillAshley']it changes up the layout quite a lot. Laythe is a cool oceania in a binary orbit with Tylo, it's the outside neighbour of Kerbin. :wink:[/QUOTE]

Ooo... you may have just hooked me for UL now :) I want to go explore it in sandbox, but at the same time, I want to not have explored it until 1.1 and a proper career xD

I wonder if I know enough about Kopernicus to hack an atmosphere onto Tylo... never had the guts to go there before ¬_¬

[KillAshley]

[quote name='eddiew']Ooo... you may have just hooked me for UL now :) I want to go explore it in sandbox, but at the same time, I want to not have explored it until 1.1 and a proper career xD

I wonder if I know enough about Kopernicus to hack an atmosphere onto Tylo... never had the guts to go there before ¬_¬[/QUOTE]

just fyi, the new kopernicus update adds in on-demand loading to SIGNIFICANTLY reduce RAM usage on packs :wink:

but I'll need to update UL before it's properly compatible....

[eddiew]

I noticed... I might have a go with it and see how much the memory usage drops for my specific case. I do have a habit of running with a lot of parts packs too.

(Although I noticed that 1.1 is slated to have dynamic loading of all resources, so maybe 64 bit will be irrelevant by the time it happens.)

[eddiew]

So, with new Kopernicus, UL + KerbolPlus reboot, Arakas, KAX, and some essentials, I can be in orbit using 1.5gb of memory. That's better than stock! O_o I may also have gotten the 64 bit hack working. And FPS seems to be really good all of a sudden.

So mini review!

...I'll mention up front that I'm worried it came out sounding critical, and it really wasn't meant to! I think you've got a lot of potential going with UL, and I just wanted to offer up some suggestions, rather than be nitpicky (or plain picky) about anything ^^; I'm much more interested in helping to tune UL to be the best it can, rather than grumbling about it :)


[B]First impressions
[/B]UL is very pretty. Kerbin looks really interesting in the map view, with rings, and an extra moon (hi potato, are you less lonely now?), so I grabbed a test plane and went for a ride.

[B]Launch site[/B]
Visually, Kerbin overall looks great, and I like the long coastline around the equator, but I would question the placement of KSC. There's a lot of ocean to both sides, and it's not got much for players to ogle along the way up and down. One range of mountains [I]if[/I] you fly spaceplanes, nothing for rocketeers. Some hills, a mountain to south/north, an island or two to the east, and a bit more land in general, would do better to show off the new look of Kerbin. Alternatively, another equatorial site with an ocean to the east might work out better, even on exactly the same terrain. Current spot just seems to waste what's available out there, and isn't very amenable to letting players find it by sensible-range plane contracts.

I also kinda wish it was nearer the coast. New water physics encourage submarine development for Laythe/Eve, but it's quite a trundle to the shoreline vs stock. Not a biggie, just one to consider maybe :)

And... is KSC meant to be on a diagonal? It's kind of a downer for plane guys, since there's no visual alignment markers for the runway when coming in. I can imagine a lot of crashes because of last minute course adjustments. I for one would definitely prefer a straight east/west runway.

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/pKmjek2.jpg[/IMG]

[B]Atmo
[/B]I am a big spaceplane fan - you may remember this from my NH adventures :) UL Kerbin has 1.2 atm densities, and 77km height. I think the radius of the planet is also a tad larger? Anyway, it turns out that spaceplanes work pretty well, but my 2p is that I personally would be inclined to match stock's atmosphere and planetary radius because you're opening the pack up to...

- heating issues may be more severe due to a longer drop from a higher speed. Atmo balancing seems like a real can of worms. Heck, stock hasn't got it right yet!
- all engines deliver less thrust at higher pressures. Getting things off the pad might be unexpectedly awkward now...
- craft designed for stock and shared on the forums might simply not make orbit in UL, since the pressure hit will get them all the way through the ascent.
- upgrading to UL while having a vehicle under ~105km orbit currently puts them into the atmosphere. That's kind of a barrier for anyone who has a low altitude station going on.
- increasing cost to orbit in ways that might alter game balance. Engines are all balanced for 1atm and 70km launchers... again, can of worms here.

My 2p, anyway, you are of course free to disregard it :)

[B]Rings[/B]
These look great in map view! I only wish there was call for more polar flights so we could see them more often xD I wonder if letting them have a 9-10 degree inclination might not produce some better visuals from KSC?

[B]Moons[/B]
I like the Minmus thing, that's cute. Not been there, but it's certainly different. It looks like it could be even more useful for a refuelling base, if it's still got some ore on it and anywhere flat enough to land?

[B]Bugs?[/B]
The funny orbit lines above are probably due to the Win-64 hack; which might not be as important under new Kopernicus anyway. Leaving that out, all I spotted was some odd biome labels, like frozen plains, at the equatorial desert. Edited November 20, 2015 by eddiew

[KillAshley]

[quote name='eddiew']*snip*[/QUOTE]

cheers for the feedback dude, theres been a lot of work going on behind the scenes and feedback like this is critical in these early days of the pack :wink:

[B]Launch site[/B]
to be honest I couldn't find any place i was really happy with. I understand what you mean, the visuals definitely need to improve for it....I'll get back looking for a new spot.

[B]Atmosphere of Kerbin[/B]
At first I increased the scale of the atmo by 10% and left the pressure ASL the same. 1atm ASL and a 84km height made it a new change from stock, however i got quite a few complaints about it so i ended up trying out increasing the pressure slightly to compensate for bringing it back down. I'm still not happy with it though, and trying to figure out how exactly it should be. I don't want it the same as stock, the whole point of changing everything is to make players change their thinking too. I'm still digging away at it though, you know I'm pretty obsessive when it comes to polishing my packs lol

[B]Rings[/B]
I have an idea on how to help, however it's too early of a though to say anything yet (I'm not going to get people's hopes up in case it gets scrapped), but I put them into a 0 inclination to make it easier to match them to Minmus, as it can be tricky eye-balling the LAN of orbits to get them perfect.

[B]Moons[/B]
All the stock resources still spawn fine AFAIK, but i still need to test a bit more. Despite its tiny size, there are some (relatively) flat areas to land on Minmus....not many though! The hard part is the encounter, which due to it's tiny SOI needs to be treated more like a rendezvous. I didn't want it to be smooth and flat like in stock, as a rougher more jagged surface fitted the "shepherding body" kind of lore UL uses. I just need to do the ground textures for it now....

[B]Bugs[/B]
Yeah most likely thats the 64 bit hack, haven't spotted anything like that during my extensive testing runs...but keep me in th loop if you spot anything else. As for the Biomes, it's something I'm aware of and am going to look into when i get time. Biomes are set by ground color and i think that the colors are just too similar for Kopernicus to get the difference. Edited November 21, 2015 by KillAshley

[eddiew]

Mmkay, that's fair. I realised that it's entirely possible to just remove the atmosphere/radius bits in the config for people who prefer to reset Kerbin to stock size and composition anyway. Mileages will vary, but the choice is easy to make :)

As for launch sites, my suggestion would be one of these...

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/LuVdJlL.jpg[/IMG]

I would be inclined to favour the second or third. A couple of islands in the water to the west of them - either green lowland or volcanic mountains - would add some extra distinguishing featues :)

And just as a thought - mountains tend to make clouds. Clustering some greener forest areas around them, even near the equator, would give a bigger range of biomes that are easily reached with early flight.

(Side note, new Kopernicus is unbelievably memory efficient! Didn't go above 1.6gb during the test flight. With three planet packs... My ghast is flabbered.) Edited November 21, 2015 by eddiew

[eddiew]

Psst, Ash - rumour has it you're working on an update. Any ETA on that ol' buddy ol' pal?

(Asking before I launch a new career :P)

[KillAshley]

[quote name='eddiew']Psst, Ash - rumour has it you're working on an update. Any ETA on that ol' buddy ol' pal?

(Asking before I launch a new career :P)[/QUOTE]

It got held up by a bug with Kopernicus that had me stumped...I have come up with a solution, it's a little hacky but it'll get things working again until the bugs fixed :D

This is going to be a big update though, including SciDefs as long as my patience holds up