Reducing science grinding from one body (Biome hopping)

[PatPL]

Simple suggestion: Lower any other experiments of the same type & same situation & same biome by 1/3 when it's been already done in other biome.

Example:

You land on Mun's Highlands, and recover its surface sample - +120 science (I guess it's 120, i can't really remember)

You land second time on Midlands - Now you get 80 science

You land on Lowlands - 53.(3) science

and so on.

Same with all other experiments.

[CaptainTurbomuffin]

At least the reward for the first 2 samples should be higher (comprasion, and game experience)

[nothingSpecial]

And to compensate the "loss" please add other use for science parts outside of part unlocking grinding. I want badly to have MPL useful in sandbox...

[tater]

I fail to see how this reduces grinding.

Grinding is the requirement to do small reward things to gain needed "stuff" in a game. KSP wrongly ties technology advancement to planetary science, and now I'd have to do even more to get rocket parts that should not be separated from each other, anyway? RTGs are at the end of the KSP tree, but predate manned spaceflight in reality.

[nothingSpecial]

I fail to see how this reduces grinding.

Grinding is the requirement to do small reward things to gain needed "stuff" in a game. KSP wrongly ties technology advancement to planetary science, and now I'd have to do even more to get rocket parts that should not be separated from each other, anyway? RTGs are at the end of the KSP tree, but predate manned spaceflight in reality.

I suppose in OP's vision making expedition to another body should be much more rewarding than biome hoping.

Still yes, the overall problem "you need to go EVA dozen times while orbiting to have longer tanks" is still persist.

[tater]

I want/need Nerva to send my crewed mission to Jool, but I need to send kerbals to Jool to get the science to unlock the NTR.

That's the problem with the entire science/tech interaction. It's absurd.

Really, science should be USEFUL as the core metric, and tech can be bought some other way, say directly via research investment (funds).

Science could perhaps then unlock missions, instead of missions unlocking science...

You gain certain rocket science milestones, then get "explore the Mun." Gain some more science, then that unlocks more distant missions. Missions come with a budget, perhaps in funds AND "tech research" points (formerly the science points we spend for tech). Some might be probes and manned as different. "Send a Probe to Duna" gives 200 tech points, and a budget of 100,000. You use the tech to buy what you need to do the mission. The "Explore Duna" mission requires CREW, and has a larger budget, etc.

[CaptainTurbomuffin]

I want/need Nerva to send my crewed mission to Jool, but I need to send kerbals to Jool to get the science to unlock the NTR.

That's the problem with the entire science/tech interaction. It's absurd.

Really, science should be USEFUL as the core metric, and tech can be bought some other way, say directly via research investment (funds).

I can only agree with that. Not to talk about researching yourself the products of other companies.

[nothingSpecial]

That solution bring another issue: what will stop player from manned exploration of Duna (save for funding... that can be achieve by lots of cost effective satellite launches), and why wouldn't unfunded Duna exploration be honored less than funded?

...Well, maybe that's not an issue at all. The Soviet programme, AFAIK, faced exactly the same problems: military wanted satellites, so Korolev needed to make universal bus that can become both spy sat and piloted spacecraftm and lunar program was underfunded.

Maybe that's really the good solution.

[BlkBltChemie]

Science could perhaps then unlock missions, instead of missions unlocking science...

You gain certain rocket science milestones, then get "explore the Mun." Gain some more science, then that unlocks more distant missions. Missions come with a budget, perhaps in funds AND "tech research" points (formerly the science points we spend for tech). Some might be probes and manned as different. "Send a Probe to Duna" gives 200 tech points, and a budget of 100,000. You use the tech to buy what you need to do the mission. The "Explore Duna" mission requires CREW, and has a larger budget, etc.

Now this is a really fantastic suggestion that I have not seen before! Great idea tater!

[JedTech]

Science could perhaps then unlock missions, instead of missions unlocking science...

You gain certain rocket science milestones, then get "explore the Mun." Gain some more science, then that unlocks more distant missions. Missions come with a budget, perhaps in funds AND "tech research" points (formerly the science points we spend for tech). Some might be probes and manned as different. "Send a Probe to Duna" gives 200 tech points, and a budget of 100,000. You use the tech to buy what you need to do the mission. The "Explore Duna" mission requires CREW, and has a larger budget, etc.

I will second that this is a fantastic idea.

[tater]

I considered doing this as a mod, but as it alters the tech tree, "strategies," and basically the entire career system, it seems sort of daunting, and the contract system is getting a 1.1 update into the bargain.

I suppose in such a system, you keep Rep, and make it VERY powerful. Low rep results in you lacking the status to get desirable missions, and ultimately can kill your program outright. So you get budget, and if you fail too badly, you're in deep trouble.

I wonder if short of KCT, you could have a simple metric whereby the "Difficulty Level" setting, instead of Reverts/No Reverts and Quicksave/No Quicksave would instead have Infinite Reverts (easy), X Reverts (Medium), 1-2 Reverts (Hard). Reverts in this case represent simulations/testing. After that first "launch" (simulation) it keeps track, and if you exit the VAB without actually launching, it charges you the most expensive of your reverts, even if you don't launch. This would keep people from reverting, then deleting all but one part. In fact, even if you do launch, it charges you the most you have spent in this revert cycle of launches.

Say you make a design at 50k cost, and it doesn't make it to orbit and you revert. The 2d try is way overbuilt and costs 120k, so your 3d try you reduce the parts and it's 90k. You go with the 3d craft. It will cost 120k this launch, but if you load it later and use it, it's just the 90k.

Quick saves are trickier. You need those because of the kraken, etc. Perhaps Diff levels could allow quick save as it is now, no quick saves for masochists, and in between, perhaps rep hits for loading a quick save after the first or second. So QS as much as you like, but if you reload after the kraken, then no hit, but if you load saves all the time, you lose a little more rep each time.

This make diff level less about grind.