riocrokite

[1.3.0] Inline Ballutes [IB] (v1.2.8) [30.05.2017]

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13 hours ago, Jimbodiah said:

Kerbin around 1800-2000m/s in a shallow angle. But even on Duna it heats up to about 75-80% of the full temperature bar in no time.

hmmm yah, that should be quite right. If you want to have better temperature resistancy you might want to use bigger ballutes (higher max skin temperatures) or lighter crafts so it's easier for a low-drag ballute to decelerate. Other than that you may just increase max skin temperature in their config files to a desired number.

In real life ballutes allow only for slowing down in the upper atmosphere, not all reentry (at least on earth). So yah any current reentry ability although limitedis still op compared to reality ;)

 

11 hours ago, sashan said:

Will they work for 1.75m 160 tonnes Eve ascent vehicle? 

 

Did you mean would they work for reentry of a 160t ascent vehicle? Yes, they should, provided you reenter from low eve orbital speed and use bigger version of a ballute (3.75 or even 5m) and probably have heatshield at the bottom too since otherwise parts exposed to heat might explode quickly:)

Edited by riocrokite

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2 hours ago, riocrokite said:

id you mean would they work for reentry of a 160t ascent vehicle? Yes, they should, provided you reenter from low eve orbital speed and use bigger version of a ballute (3.75 or even 5m) and probably have heatshield at the bottom too since otherwise parts exposed to heat might explode quickly:)

Okay, I'm getting the mod. I need 1.0.4 version tho.
Another question - how heavy is the part once ballute is jettisoned? There's no way I could attach something near top of the vehicle and jettison it later, and payload of that monster is tiny.

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6 hours ago, sashan said:

Okay, I'm getting the mod. I need 1.0.4 version tho.
Another question - how heavy is the part once ballute is jettisoned? There's no way I could attach something near top of the vehicle and jettison it later, and payload of that monster is tiny.

Unfortunately there's not much difference (or no at all) in the mass once ballute is jettisoned (stock parachute module limitation), the good side of it being that you can repack it to use again. If you feel ballute you can decrease its weight in config file.

I would try with trying newest version of the mod with 1.0.4, otherwise it may not work correctly or feel severely underpowered (previous configs allowed for ballute to break far more quickly).

 

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the mod has been updated along with updated textures from Enceos:)

I've also updated the description in the first post so people playing with larger Kerbal system mods know what to do (install RealHeat mod ;))

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looks like a great mod! but...

tried it for my 55 ton space tug with a 2.5m ballute. I cant get below 55km height, or it explodes...and at that height it doesnt really slow me down that much. Does that seem right, or a i getting any weird heating effects? 

 

cheers

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figure out how to use it down to 48km periapsis, at which point it can capture the ship from a Minimus approach: what i did was attach it to a heat exchanger, which i guess gives me enough heat tolerance to deal with the heating. Not sure if it works the same with liquid fuel tanks, might try it out. 

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7 hours ago, ragusila said:

figure out how to use it down to 48km periapsis, at which point it can capture the ship from a Minimus approach: what i did was attach it to a heat exchanger, which i guess gives me enough heat tolerance to deal with the heating. Not sure if it works the same with liquid fuel tanks, might try it out. 

I need more information to help you, are you using any of this mods: FAR, realchute, realheat?

If not then it seems that you have too high reentry speed. In real life ballutes themselves are quite delicate (compared to heat shield) and cannot withstand high speeds\heat. All in all it is supposed to save you substantial dV with reentry, but probably not all of it when you approach with high speed (so you still have to decelerate a bit propulsively or use several aerocapture orbits like in real life).

Edited by riocrokite

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4 hours ago, riocrokite said:

I need more information to help you, are you using any of this mods: FAR, realchute, realheat?

If not then it seems that you have too high reentry speed. In real life ballutes themselves are quite delicate (compared to heat shield) and cannot withstand high speeds\heat. All in all it is supposed to save you substantial dV with reentry, but probably not all of it when you approach with high speed (so you still have to decelerate a bit propulsively or use several aerocapture orbits like in real life).

sorry, my bad. I dont have FAR, or any of the other mods. 
My vehicle is 55 tons loaded, 25 empty (it is a fuel tug, with inflatable fuel storage).  I try to aerobrake it coming from my minimus base, which means a speed around 3200m/s. I tried to brake it full, and didnt work, the 2.5m ballute burned  before i got rid of 50m/s (periapsis couldnt be lower than 55km).

Tried it empty, and with a heat exchanger, it worked great, decelerated the 25ton in a single pass from 3200m/s to 2300m/s (periapsis was about 48km). Will try it tonight loaded and with the heat exchager, and if that doest work maybe loaded and with 2 x 2.5m ballutes. 

Does it matter which was I point the ballute? 

 

cheers

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17 hours ago, ragusila said:

sorry, my bad. I dont have FAR, or any of the other mods. 
My vehicle is 55 tons loaded, 25 empty (it is a fuel tug, with inflatable fuel storage).  I try to aerobrake it coming from my minimus base, which means a speed around 3200m/s. I tried to brake it full, and didnt work, the 2.5m ballute burned  before i got rid of 50m/s (periapsis couldnt be lower than 55km).

Tried it empty, and with a heat exchanger, it worked great, decelerated the 25ton in a single pass from 3200m/s to 2300m/s (periapsis was about 48km). Will try it tonight loaded and with the heat exchager, and if that doest work maybe loaded and with 2 x 2.5m ballutes. 

Does it matter which was I point the ballute? 

 

cheers

thx for description, from what I recall 55t with 3200 m\s should be quite fine for aerobrake (Im on holidays so cannot check it now). Are you using latest version of KSP 1.0.5.028 and latest version of the mod v1.2.3? Lately I had to update the mod because new version of stock atmosphere behaviour made previous configs heating all too quickly. Anyway intersting workaround with heat exchangers, haven't thought of that. And yes, it does matter where the ballute is pointing, in other words the rocket should point ideally retrograde. Deviation from this position will result in additional unwanted heating.

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8 hours ago, riocrokite said:

thx for description, from what I recall 55t with 3200 m\s should be quite fine for aerobrake (Im on holidays so cannot check it now). Are you using latest version of KSP 1.0.5.028 and latest version of the mod v1.2.3? Lately I had to update the mod because new version of stock atmosphere behaviour made previous configs heating all too quickly. Anyway intersting workaround with heat exchangers, haven't thought of that. And yes, it does matter where the ballute is pointing, in other words the rocket should point ideally retrograde. Deviation from this position will result in additional unwanted heating.

It worked great with the heat exchanger, not so much without. I think I have the latest everything, will check.  Right now all my crafts have nukes, so I have a heat exchanger anyway, I can put the ballute right next to it. I might test it more without the exchanger when I make a craft that doesn't need it.

 

Cheers

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On 2/20/2016 at 3:24 PM, Buster Charlie said:

Spacedock/CKAN Upload?

not planned for now, in other words github download is the only option

Edited by riocrokite

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FYI: It would seem the values you provided in the RealChute.cfg don't work quite right with the RealChute mod.

Specifically:

minPressure = 0.0000001
deploymentAlt = 120000
minDeployment = 120000

I'm getting "Invalid Parameters" errors when I use your ballutes in the editor. The numbers can still be edited, and corrected in game via standard RealChute chute editing (and via the config itself).

It would seem the minPressure is too low and the deployment altitude is too high. I'm guessing you were going for a deployment as soon as you cross into an atmosphere (I haven't used a ballute yet, just read the description, so not 100% on their mechanics still)? The error also prevents you from using the "Next Size" option in the editor, until you switch the values. Pretty minor issue over all, but thought you might like to know.

Cheers.

(and might I say, from what little I've seen so far, these things look quite stylish)

 

-----edit-----

Highest Altitude I can get accepted is: 9999

Lowest Pressure: 0.0001

If I remember correctly, pressure governs predeployment and altitude deployment, so I guess these numbers make some sort of sense in that light. I checked the RealChute settings and didn't see any option to increase them, but maybe the mod author knows of a way.

Edited by Deimos Rast
stuff and things

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1 hour ago, Deimos Rast said:

FYI: It would seem the values you provided in the RealChute.cfg don't work quite right with the RealChute mod.

Specifically:


minPressure = 0.0000001
deploymentAlt = 120000
minDeployment = 120000

I'm getting "Invalid Parameters" errors when I use your ballutes in the editor. The numbers can still be edited, and corrected in game via standard RealChute chute editing (and via the config itself).

There's an old doctor joke about a man who complains to his doctor that when he bends his arm a certain way, it hurts. So the doctor tells him, "Then don't bend your arm that way." 

The problem you are experiencing is just the editor. No, the editor does not accept those values and doesn't consider them legal. However, in flight mode, no such checks occur and those parameters do work just fine. To be able to use numbers that the editor considers invalid, you would have to modify the source code and recompile.

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33 minutes ago, Starwaster said:

There's an old doctor joke about a man who complains to his doctor that when he bends his arm a certain way, it hurts. So the doctor tells him, "Then don't bend your arm that way." 

The problem you are experiencing is just the editor. No, the editor does not accept those values and doesn't consider them legal. However, in flight mode, no such checks occur and those parameters do work just fine. To be able to use numbers that the editor considers invalid, you would have to modify the source code and recompile.

I get what your gettin' at, and I actually tested it in flight. It worked like a charm, stopping me from 5000m/s to roughly 150m/s in a few seconds flat (and the resultant G-force killed everyone, but sacrifices were necessary for science:mellow:). The models and animation, everything about it worked and looked perfect. And then I looked at my log and found 564,495 NullRef's, most relating to:

NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at RealChute.ProceduralChute.Update () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

And now for my usual speech: I have a lot of mods installed. A lot. This could very well be a case of mod conflict or user error, and it just happens to show up here. No idea.

One other thing I can tell you: in the editor, I changed the "invalid but apparently not invalid" values to "acceptable" levels and then tried to save it as a preset. It didn't respond to that and just sat there glumly. I fiddled around some more with it (that's my technical diagnosis) and for all I know, it's entirely possible at this point I was inadvertently "successful" in changing the inherent RealChute qualities of the Ballute, resulting in said NullRefs. Seems plausible. As I said, "user error" a possibility.

But the thing is...isn't this supposed to be compatible with RealChutes?

Anyway, it's late, I'm tired and this requires more thought than I can give it at the moment.

And thanks for the response (and the joke); much obliged.^_^

 

(Linux x64 bit)

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@Deimos Rast

Being compatible with RealChutes doesn't have to mean customizable in the editor though. If you're able to install this with RC and do a reentry with the parts as prescribed, then it's compatible. It doesn't have to support editing.

IMO

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31 minutes ago, Starwaster said:

@Deimos Rast

Being compatible with RealChutes doesn't have to mean customizable in the editor though. If you're able to install this with RC and do a reentry with the parts as prescribed, then it's compatible. It doesn't have to support editing.

IMO

Thx for help explaining the issue @Starwaster :)

1 hour ago, Deimos Rast said:

I get what your gettin' at, and I actually tested it in flight. It worked like a charm, stopping me from 5000m/s to roughly 150m/s in a few seconds flat (and the resultant G-force killed everyone, but sacrifices were necessary for science:mellow:). The models and animation, everything about it worked and looked perfect. And then I looked at my log and found 564,495 NullRef's, most relating to:


NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at RealChute.ProceduralChute.Update () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

And now for my usual speech: I have a lot of mods installed. A lot. This could very well be a case of mod conflict or user error, and it just happens to show up here. No idea.

One other thing I can tell you: in the editor, I changed the "invalid but apparently not invalid" values to "acceptable" levels and then tried to save it as a preset. It didn't respond to that and just sat there glumly. I fiddled around some more with it (that's my technical diagnosis) and for all I know, it's entirely possible at this point I was inadvertently "successful" in changing the inherent RealChute qualities of the Ballute, resulting in said NullRefs. Seems plausible. As I said, "user error" a possibility.

But the thing is...isn't this supposed to be compatible with RealChutes?

Anyway, it's late, I'm tired and this requires more thought than I can give it at the moment.

And thanks for the response (and the joke); much obliged.^_^

 

(Linux x64 bit)

Well yah, what Starwaster said.

Inline Ballute mod is using (without modifications) either stock or RealChute code - which was built mostly for different purpose -parachutes. Thus the resulting ballute behaviour isn't perfect,
although for me it's good enough.

And to answer possible question: I don't have coding skills nor motivation to build custom plugin for ballutes.

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3 hours ago, riocrokite said:

Thx for help explaining the issue @Starwaster :)

Well yah, what Starwaster said.

Inline Ballute mod is using (without modifications) either stock or RealChute code - which was built mostly for different purpose -parachutes. Thus the resulting ballute behaviour isn't perfect,
although for me it's good enough.

And to answer possible question: I don't have coding skills nor motivation to build custom plugin for ballutes.

In theory it could be done as a simple animation, assuming that its drag cubes get correctly generated by KSP and assuming that its thermal properties are properly set up. Not saying it should be set up that way, in fact it would be rather crude and would carry its own set of issues, such as losing the ability to separate what happens to the ballute from what happens to its base part. (i.e the entire thing would heat up) Not to mention looking stiff and static...

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12 hours ago, Starwaster said:

@Deimos Rast

Being compatible with RealChutes doesn't have to mean customizable in the editor though. If you're able to install this with RC and do a reentry with the parts as prescribed, then it's compatible. It doesn't have to support editing.

IMO

Eh...true, kinda of stretch, but I'll concede the point. Please note, I'm not particularly suggesting that you change anything, as it does work with RealChutes, out of the box (and FAR, DRE, RealHeat, and a boat load of other mods)...too well in fact (RIP Jeb & Bill).

I'm just letting you know I got a lot of RealChute related NullRef's. It could be due to user error, due to the values you provided (although I changed those in the editor, so I doubt it's this), or the fact that it's a custom RealChute (or more specifically a custom material). Right now, I'm leaning toward the "user error" explanation, because, well, because I know who the user is, hah:lol:.

Anyway, I'll throw some more orange suits in the spam-can later and see what happens.

Thanks for the responses - I really love the models and textures by the way; I used the smallest version (pinata I believe) and it was huge!

Cheers.

 

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I did a little more testing, and... @Starwaster ... might be right.

I changed the values in the config, as I mentioned, so that throws a slight twist in things, so you'll probably still get the initial errors I mentioned with your default values, but my findings were (I would perform a step, then check my log, rinse and repeat):

- Taking it out in the VAB, no null refs.

- Attaching it in the VAB, no null refs.

- Taking it out to the launch pad, no null refs.

- Deploying it in flight...no. null. refs.

- Going back into the VABr and opening it up in the Real Chute editor...massive wall of null refs.

Basically, all of this just confirms his joke, but it'll at least let me know under which circumstances I can and can't use these in.

Cheers.

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On 3/2/2016 at 11:33 PM, Deimos Rast said:

I did a little more testing, and... @Starwaster ... might be right.

I changed the values in the config, as I mentioned, so that throws a slight twist in things, so you'll probably still get the initial errors I mentioned with your default values, but my findings were (I would perform a step, then check my log, rinse and repeat):

- Taking it out in the VAB, no null refs.

- Attaching it in the VAB, no null refs.

- Taking it out to the launch pad, no null refs.

- Deploying it in flight...no. null. refs.

- Going back into the VABr and opening it up in the Real Chute editor...massive wall of null refs.

Basically, all of this just confirms his joke, but it'll at least let me know under which circumstances I can and can't use these in.

Cheers.

cool, thanks for taking the time to test it :)

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