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[Plugin/Parts] Kerbal Foundries - Continuation [Latest: 1.9g]


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I'm having trouble finding the source code for this mod. It might have something to do with me having signatures disabled. I'm looking into integrating this with AutoRove.

As far as I can tell, I just need to get the max speed and electricity consumption from KFModuleWheel.

Edit: Nevermind, I found the link in a cached kerbalstuff page.

Edited by ShadyAct
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If I might ask and suggest- is there a reason why the information we have about the wheels and treads and whatnot is so much different from the stock wheels?  Like all that RPMs and whatnot, seems..  Well superfluous.  Is that information necessary for anything?  I mean I dunno I'm just asking if it wouldn't be easier to have the info readouts read like stock.

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KF wheels and tracks work differently than the stock wheels. The RPM is needed to calculate current torque and power consumption. Therefore it's a good indicator of how the part performs.

The other stuff, the groups, are especially useful when combining different wheels/tracks or when using repulsors. For example you have a 'hover craft' where front and back repulsors are at different heights. You would then create two groups for them, and set each group to a different height. When using actions groups you'll only have to add an action for the group and not separately for every wheel. This'll also work in the flight scene, change one repulsor via right-click menu and the whole group gets the new values set. This helps preventing flips.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Alright, so... I've been watching all the crazy stuff with KerbalStuff going down and SpaceDock taking over.  I've also been slowly rebuilding my KSP mod library so I can get back into this stuff a bit here and there.  This also means I've been slowly getting back into C# programming (school has be stuck in JavaScript right now... which really sucks.  For instance: C# has data types.  JavaScript has... Vars.  What the heck is a var?  A var is EVERYTHING... at the same friggin' time! So annoying.) and that means a renewed interest in KSP modding.  I won't say i'm back in action or anything, but I think it's time to start poking the body... so to speak.  Try not to think about that one too hard.

Anyway... to answer some questions...

Right now there is no official release. (EDIT: Holy Jebediah!  I did not notice that there was a new release on there.  Awesome!  However, I am not the one to ask about this as I am only a mascot for the time being.)  In fact, even when KF was in full swing, we never made it our of the alpha stages.  I was going to take us into beta stage... but we all know how that worked out.  I'm considering doing a temporary release sometime this month if the new administration is alright with that and if KSP 1.1 doesn't drop on us before then, but it won't be a full-features release really.  Just something to get the basics up and running again with all the new 1.0.5 features and such taken into account.

As for the wheel stuff...
Yes, the wheels in KF work a bit differently than the stock wheel modules.  They aren't a complete departure of course because they're still implemented in much the same way for the basic functionality of being round, being able to roll, and being able to support a vehicle that wants to interact with the surface of a planetary body and/or static surface (aka. bumping into it and changing momentum... aka. going up the hill instead of going through the hill... okay, I'll stop there) but that's where the similarity ends.  Steering is the first thing you'll notice.  It's a lot smoother and, when using... say 6x6 wheel configurations... you'll notice that not all the wheels turn the same amount.  This creates a much more efficient turning system for the vehicle, as in less scraping of certain wheels and a more reliable center of the turning radius compared with wheels that all turn the same and rely on whatever wheel is grinding with the ground the hardest to determine the pivot point of the craft.  Next is the suspension which is wheel-specific and travels a lot further than the stock suspensions.  Also, KF suspension can be modified to raise and lower the vehicle and helps to reduce rolling of the craft in higher speed turns..  Finally we have the RPM readouts and the way it all interacts.  One goal of KF was to create a smoother transition between the differing acceleration levels of the vehicle.  This reduces cases of flipping due to a wheel motor going from dead stop to full power immediately, and also helps the steering and anti-roll systems.  This does result in slower overall velocities, and slower acceleration overall, but it makes for a much more stable ride.

All the differing data for these wheels compared with stock is quite necessary, but I would also note that it makes it a lot harder to create a new wheel and, considering I started as a simply collaborator on this mod, I lack the knowledge of how to go about doing that.

As for the source code... you and me both.  I'm working on getting all my old sources back on one computer so I can take stock of what I have and what is going on right now.  I'm still hopeful that the new administration can come up with a stable release, especially post-1.1, but I'm working on getting back into things one step and a time.  In the mean time, there is a utility you can search for called ILSpy which would let you decompile the DLL and take a look at how things are done either in C# or even VB apparently.  That won't include any of my old WIP projects within the KF code that weren't ready to be compiled yet, but the functional stuff is all there.

 

So... you guys who were going to take over this stuff from me... what's up?  Any news?
 

Edited by Gaalidas
Didn't look at the facts carefully enough... or at all to be honest.
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On 2/22/2016 at 1:10 AM, *Aqua* said:

KF wheels and tracks work differently than the stock wheels. The RPM is needed to calculate current torque and power consumption. Therefore it's a good indicator of how the part performs.

The other stuff, the groups, are especially useful when combining different wheels/tracks or when using repulsors. For example you have a 'hover craft' where front and back repulsors are at different heights. You would then create two groups for them, and set each group to a different height. When using actions groups you'll only have to add an action for the group and not separately for every wheel. This'll also work in the flight scene, change one repulsor via right-click menu and the whole group gets the new values set. This helps preventing flips.

So, to add to the repulsor groups thing...

Yeah, that's sorts how it works.  One thing I'd like to do in the future is make this a little more intuitive.  Chancing values on the right-click context menu still only affects that part.  Action groups, however, affect the entire set of parts with the same group number set in the context menu.  This does not mean that everything will be in sync at all times though.  If you set the group for a specific height (I think those action group options made it in... but cannot be customized as much as I'd like yet) then everything will sync up to that height, but if you use the bump up/down action then all that will happen is that they'll all bump up/down the same amount but still could be unbalanced until you bump everything beyond their maximums (actually, it's not possible, but eventually every part will max out and then be in sync again).  I'd really love for this system to be a bit less heavy on specific action group options and, instead, offer a way to create stopping points for the suspension in much the way you can make stopping points for Infernal Robotics parts, and then offer a way to specifically call up a certain point, or cycle up/down through those points in addition to allowing for per-craft and global incremental up/down stepping like we have now (for a global option) through our GUI interface.

It's all a bit clunky, but it works well if you set it up right.

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Hi there! I gather there's a whole team now working on this mod, and I'm wondering whether the Richard_Kerman who "shared" Kerbal Foundries on Spacedock is part of that team. The team list posted earlier doesn't have anyone with that name, but Spacedock names and forum names don't have to match up. It is pointing to the old locked thread, though, which makes me suspicious.

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16 hours ago, Gaalidas said:

All the differing data for these wheels compared with stock is quite necessary, but I would also note that it makes it a lot harder to create a new wheel and, considering I started as a simply collaborator on this mod, I lack the knowledge of how to go about doing that.

Hi Buddy, the offer still stands, if I can i'd be happy to help, almost fully up to speed again, after my prolonged absence

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20 hours ago, politas said:

Hi there! I gather there's a whole team now working on this mod, and I'm wondering whether the Richard_Kerman who "shared" Kerbal Foundries on Spacedock is part of that team. The team list posted earlier doesn't have anyone with that name, but Spacedock names and forum names don't have to match up. It is pointing to the old locked thread, though, which makes me suspicious.

I'd actually like to know that myself, and whether or not this person can truly claim that this mod is fully functional in 1.0.5.  If so, I'm cool with it for the time being... but I'm really just a mascot right now so it would have to be taken up with the rest of the team if they're still on board.

I actually noticed it wasn't any of our normal guys, or at least not the names I remember, after making my last edit here and thought to myself "who the heck is that?"

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11 hours ago, SpannerMonkey(smce) said:

Hi Buddy, the offer still stands, if I can i'd be happy to help, almost fully up to speed again, after my prolonged absence

Honestly, I'm not the one to be talking to I'm afraid.  I'm surprised this topic is still being used even.  I figured the new team would start up a new topic and take it onward from there.

However... I'd simply love to see some new content for this mod created even if it was in the form of a third party add-on (like how BDA has all those sub-mods being developed all over the place).  Even if the team thing fell apart and I started maintaining this solo there still isn't any skill on my part whatsoever in content creation.  In fact, there's barely any skill in code creation as well, at least as far as wheel functionality goes.  Lo-fi did his magic on that stuff and there's no reproducing it from scratch as far as I am concerned.  The best I can do is copy and paste bits and pieces and pray it compiles, al lthe while grinding my teeth in anticipation of a horrible fail.

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On 2/20/2016 at 2:58 PM, ShadyAct said:

I'm having trouble finding the source code for this mod. It might have something to do with me having signatures disabled. I'm looking into integrating this with AutoRove.

As far as I can tell, I just need to get the max speed and electricity consumption from KFModuleWheel.

Edit: Nevermind, I found the link in a cached kerbalstuff page.

I noticed this posting just now about the max speed and EC consumption.  EC consumption you should be able to figure out easily enough from the code if you've been able to look at it, and it really hasn't changed at all in any of the more recent (as in the last 6 months... I've been out of the code for a while now) changes.  Max speed, however, is going to be a bit more of a bugger for you.  In my testing, I've never been able to get a KF rover even close to the speeds I could with the standard wheels.  However, I also couldn't get a KF rover to flip or freak out nearly as much as I could with the stock wheels... so it still pays for itself in the end.

I was actually looking at AutoRove recently (and would like to take a look at the source sometime soon) and liked the idea behind it.  Considering we don't change how the craft is controlled at all, you might not even really need to integrate anything unless you keep really close tabs on what each wheel is asking for in EC.  Though... one thing worth mentioning is that we don't actually call it EC consumption or anything similar.  I made it much more broad so that future modders could make the wheels run on different fuel types without having to change the code at all.

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1 hour ago, Gaalidas said:

I'd actually like to know that myself, and whether or not this person can truly claim that this mod is fully functional in 1.0.5.  If so, I'm cool with it for the time being... but I'm really just a mascot right now so it would have to be taken up with the rest of the team if they're still on board.

I actually noticed it wasn't any of our normal guys, or at least not the names I remember, after making my last edit here and thought to myself "who the heck is that?"

For the moment, I'm holding off pointing CKAN to that Spacedock entry. I've pointed the latest release to the dropbox link @SpannerMonkey(smce) pasted, and updated the compatibility to include 1.0.5. If anyone finds it doesn't work after all, please let me know. The zip file is weird. The folders have a recent modification date, but none of the files do.

Edited by politas
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Ah, people are getting active again. As 1.1 is right at the door we should start to assemble the team.

On ‎19‎.‎01‎.‎2016 at 0:01 AM, *Aqua* said:

Gaalidas - our mascot ^^
Aqua (me) - plugin writer
V8jester - IVA, part config, PR guy
ArkaelDren - part config, testing
and lo-fi - the guy we blame all bugs on :P

IMO we need another two guys: a second plugin writer and a modeller (modeler?)
I don't want to code the stuff all by myself and we need a guy who can create new tracks and wheels and/or modify the current models.

@V8jester, @ArkaelDren
Are you still interested to work on KF?

Also I'd like to have another coder and a modeller. While Gaalidas can help out with coding from time to time we are still in need of someone who can create new models.

About Richard_Kerman:
I talked to the SpaceDock guys and they are ready to delete the mod from the site when we are ready to reupload it. I also asked them to send a mail to him (they should have access to his mail) so that he contacts one of us.

Edited by *Aqua*
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11 hours ago, politas said:

For the moment, I'm holding off pointing CKAN to that Spacedock entry. I've pointed the latest release to the dropbox link @SpannerMonkey(smce) pasted, and updated the compatibility to include 1.0.5. If anyone finds it doesn't work after all, please let me know. The zip file is weird. The folders have a recent modification date, but none of the files do.

Hiya, i think the reason the files in the zip are odd date wise is because it was moved around a bit between installs, shouldn't be anything amiss, as nothing inside the folders has been messed with, and it's running fine in all 3 of my installs ( why 3? 1 is my long running game, one is an unmodded version in which i set up new mods and the final is a heavily modded version i test my stuff in for compatibility before release)

2 hours ago, *Aqua* said:

Ah, people are getting active again. As 1.1 is right at the door we should start to assemble the team.

@V8jester, @ArkaelDren
Are you still interested to work on KF?

Also I'd like to have another coder and a modeller. While Gaalidas can help out with coding from time to time we are still in need of someone who can create new models.

About Richard_Kerman:
I talked to the SpaceDock guys and they are ready to delete the mod from the site when we are ready to reupload it. I also asked them to send a mail to him (they should have access to his mail) so that he contacts one of us.

As already mentioned to Gaalidas  I have in the past  made parts for this mod and would be happy to do so again

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46 minutes ago, SpannerMonkey(smce) said:

Hiya, i think the reason the files in the zip are odd date wise is because it was moved around a bit between installs, shouldn't be anything amiss, as nothing inside the folders has been messed with, and it's running fine in all 3 of my installs ( why 3? 1 is my long running game, one is an unmodded version in which i set up new mods and the final is a heavily modded version i test my stuff in for compatibility before release)

Hi, sorry, I wasn't clear. It's the zip file from Spacedock that I'm saying is weird. All the files seem to be in the same places as the Dropbox zip, and have the same modified dates, but the folders have a modified date of a couple of days ago.

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18 minutes ago, politas said:

Hi, sorry, I wasn't clear. It's the zip file from Spacedock that I'm saying is weird. All the files seem to be in the same places as the Dropbox zip, and have the same modified dates, but the folders have a modified date of a couple of days ago.

Which likely means that whoever Richard Kerman is he downloaded from my link, extracted and repacked the files for some reason, then uploaded to Space dock, (dunno about you but this business with randoms uploading other peoples mods to spacedock is beginning to yank my chain a bit)

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3 hours ago, SpannerMonkey(smce) said:

Which likely means that whoever Richard Kerman is he downloaded from my link, extracted and repacked the files for some reason, then uploaded to Space dock, (dunno about you but this business with randoms uploading other peoples mods to spacedock is beginning to yank my chain a bit)

I hope that their intentions are pure, to get mods that have disappeared available again, but yes, it is annoying. On the other hand, some mod authors have left the community, and the only way to get their mods back up is for someone else to take them over where that is possible. Some people are just a little too impatient.

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1 hour ago, V8jester said:

Absolutely!

Very good! :D
You should also ask lofi for access to the KF repos.

You said you want to do part cfgs... that means testing and balancing. That's quite a task. Afaik all of the parts need balancing (max. temps, EC demand, acceleration, etc.). You can already look at the numbers if you like or wait until the plugin is updated for 1.1.

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Sounds like a good team getting together :)

I think you've got my email address, so feel free to prompt for access to stuff.

I've completed a load of projects, and have a little free time again, so I might quietly mess about with some bits in the background and poke some crazy stuff your way if the mood takes me. 

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Had a message from whoever Richard Kerman is apologising for uploading without permission. I don't think any harm meant, and aware that will be deleted when you guys get around to it. The SpaceDock guys seem to have jumped on it quite quickly.

I thought 1.1 would be out by now, I have to admit. Seems like there's a bit of a lull while everyone is awaiting its arrival!

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I really like the treads, but feel the anti-gravity stuff should be optional.  If you could put those parts into a separate folder, it would then be possible using CKAN to make that an optional installation.

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34 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

I really like the treads, but feel the anti-gravity stuff should be optional.  If you could put those parts into a separate folder, it would then be possible using CKAN to make that an optional installation.

On the other hand. The more Dev's break up a given mod. The more there is to keep track of. As well as, more troubleshooting for new players that will absolutely ask.

"Where are those hover thingy's"

Honestly, control of what is or is not included in a mod should probably be left to the end user.

If you don't want them, just remove them from the folder. A good Dev will have an organized and easy to understand file structure.

And me personally, I think CKAN has spoiled everyone into thinking mods come from a button and not a person. But that's just my 2 cents worth. Ok maybe a buck 25 ;)

 

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