[Min KSP: 1.12.2] Pathfinder - Space Camping & Geoscience

[slyfoxninja]

I just downloaded off Spacedock the new update and I got the Heisenberg file instead, but the zip is labeled as Pathfinder 2.2.1 

Edited February 3, 2017 by slyfoxninja

[Angelo Kerman]

4 hours ago, slyfoxninja said:

I just downloaded off Spacedock the new update and I got the Heisenberg file instead, but the zip is labeled as Pathfinder 2.2.1 

Thanks, I've updated the link.

[Bombaatu]

So, I have a little bit of confusion. When Pathfinder is installed with EL, does it use MetallicOre or MetalOre to produce Metals to make RocketParts? The resource from EL is MetalOre, but the PathFinder wiki states MetallicOre as the one to look for. As they show up at different locations, I'd like to avoid nerfing my base...

[Angelo Kerman]

1 hour ago, Bombaatu said:

So, I have a little bit of confusion. When Pathfinder is installed with EL, does it use MetallicOre or MetalOre to produce Metals to make RocketParts? The resource from EL is MetalOre, but the PathFinder wiki states MetallicOre as the one to look for. As they show up at different locations, I'd like to avoid nerfing my base...

In theory, when EL is installed, it should switch over to MetalOre to make RocketParts. If it isn't then something's not working right.

[Bombaatu]

39 minutes ago, Angel-125 said:

In theory, when EL is installed, it should switch over to MetalOre to make RocketParts. If it isn't then something's not working right.

Thanks. I just wasn't sure which one I should be looking for.

[AdmiralSirJohn]

On further reflection, I think my texture problem was due to putting the wrong path into the settings.cfg file.

In any case, everything is working now.

[eberkain]

On 1/14/2017 at 0:01 PM, ThRodrigues said:

Pathfinder has a Kerbalism mod support patch that is currently outdated, since kerbalism is in version 1.1.8, as this patch only supports up to version 1.1.4 for KSP 1.1.3 ... if anyone can update this patch Will be of great value, the only mod base / colonization that supports kerbalism 1.1.8 so far is KPBS.

I so wish I knew how to do this. 

[Bombaatu]

Something that just occurred to me (but sadly I don't have the skills to pull off) - it would be great if there were a Pathfinder configuration that worked as a Surface Experiment Package central station. If it were just an MM config I might be able to pull it off, but it would also require a port to connect to the experiments.

If unfamiliar with SEP, it recreates the ALSEP experiments that the Apollo astronauts put on the moon; those experiments have to be assembled on-site by an engineer & calibrated by a scientist. They then run in the background & transmit data to KSC when complete. It fits nicely with the PathFinder/MOLE ideas of science-over-time instead of point-and-click science.

More info: 

 

Edited February 6, 2017 by Bombaatu

[Angelo Kerman]

3 minutes ago, Bombaatu said:

Something that just occurred to me (but sadly I don't have the skills to pull off) - it would be great if there were a Pathfinder configuration that worked as a Surface Experiment Package central station. If it were just an MM config I might be able to pull it off, but it would also require a port to connect to the experiments.

If unfamiliar with SEP, it recreates the ALSEP experiments that the Apollo astronauts put on the moon; those experiments have to be assembled on-site by an engineer & calibrated by a scientist. They then run in the background & transmit data to KSC when complete. It fits nicely with the PathFinder/MOLE ideas of science-over-time instead of point-and-click science.

More info: 

 

Thanks for the suggestion, that's definitely something to consider. SEP is a neat mod, and @AlbertKermin and @CobaltWolf have done a great job with it.

I was watching @TheReadPanda play with SEP over the weekend, hooking up the Sombrero to serve as the power supply. I haven't tried SEP myself yet- I do have components loaded in my landers for an upcoming Munshot- so I'm unfamiliar with how it functions. One thing I realized is that the Sombrero needs a transmitter like the Gaslight has. I haven't looked, does it have a seismometer? If not, I could see having a SEP geoscience experiment that requires you to crash spacecraft into the planet to generate seismic data that's captured by the seismometer- something like the Impact mod or the seismic experiment from KSP Interstellar.

Given the way that KAS works, I can only have one KAS port on a part, but I can add connection nodes to the Gaslight, Sombrero, and Saddle where the old KAS ports used to be. That would make it easier to connect SEP's power plugs. I also took a peek at the central station, it looks like it's done via some custom plugins, so it's a matter of setting up a template. Given where SEP parts are placed in the tech tree, I'd say that the template would best fit the Ponderosa/Casa, which becomes available after unlocking Space Exploration. I'd say the Pathfinder lab could double as a central station, though you'd pay for that in terms of volume and mass; the SEP parts are smaller and lighter on their own.

I'm pretty busy with DSEV right now, but what I can do is add some additional attachment nodes (and possibly some artwork changes) to support SEP plugs on the Saddle, Gaslight, and Sombrero. That way, at the very least, you can use Pathfinder's stuff to help power and connect your SEP components. If you're willing to learn a bit about the template system, here's a wiki page I made awhile ago that can get you started, and here's the wiki for Module Manager. I can also answer questions you might run into. You probably don't need a whole new template for Pathfinder, just something like:

PATH_HABITATION[GeoLab]:FOR[Pathinder]:NEEDS[SurfaceExperimentPack]
{
<SEP part modules here>
}

If you can do that and test it, then I can add the additional attachment points to support SEP power plugs. Sounds good?

[Bombaatu]

20 minutes ago, Angel-125 said:

I'm pretty busy with DSEV right now, but what I can do is add some additional attachment nodes (and possibly some artwork changes) to support SEP plugs on the Saddle, Gaslight, and Sombrero. That way, at the very least, you can use Pathfinder's stuff to help power and connect your SEP components. If you're willing to learn a bit about the template system, here's a wiki page I made awhile ago that can get you started, and here's the wiki for Module Manager. I can also answer questions you might run into. You probably don't need a whole new template for Pathfinder, just something like:

PATH_HABITATION[GeoLab]:FOR[Pathinder]:NEEDS[SurfaceExperimentPack]
{
<SEP part modules here>
}

Ok, I'll take a look.

[Bombaatu]

2 hours ago, Angel-125 said:

I haven't looked, does it have a seismometer?

Yes - the part is called "SEP-S06 Passive Seismic Experiment". Here's the module definition for the experiment:

Quote

MODULE
    {
        name = ModuleSEPScienceExperiment
    
        collectActionName = Collect Data
        experimentActionName = Observe Planetary Seismology
        
        experimentID = SEP_PSE
        interactionRange = 1.5
        resettable = true
        reviewActionName = Review Data
        xmitDataScalar = 1
        
        canTransmit = True
        complexity = 1
        experimentTime = 100
    
        situationFailMessage = This instrument must be deployed on the surface of a planet and operated by a Kerbal while on EVA.
    
        animated = false
            
        controllerModuleMessage = All SEP experiments must be attached to the SEP Central Station in order to operate.
    }
 

 

[Bombaatu]

Well, I've taken a first crack at it but it doesn't seem to be doing anything. I don't know if I misspelled something. I got the value of the NEEDS block from the SEP part in KPBS; the module definitions were lifted out of the SEP central station config file. The only edit I made to the module was setting animated to False & removing the animation name.

When I launch a part configured as a GeoLab, I do not see the 'Begin All Experiments' button in the right-click menu, nor anywhere in the Manage Operations dialog. This may be because there is currently no way to attach experiments, though. 

 

Quote

PATH_HABITATION[GeoLab]:FOR[Pathfinder]:NEEDS[SEPScience]
{
    MODULE
    {
        name = ModuleSEPStation
        
        interactionRange = 1.5
        deployEventName = Activate
        retractEventName = Shut Down
        conductExperimentsEventName = Begin All Experiments
        
        maxExperiments = 8
        transmitUnlockTech = advElectrics
        
        animated = False
    }
    MODULE
    {
        name = ModuleSEPECViewer
    }
    
     MODULE
    {
        name = ModuleDataTransmitter
        antennaType = DIRECT
        packetInterval = 0.6
        packetSize = 4
        packetResourceCost = 4.0
        requiredResource = ElectricCharge
        DeployFxModules = 1
        antennaPower = 5000000
        antennaCombinable = True
    }

}

 

Edited February 6, 2017 by Bombaatu

[Angelo Kerman]

58 minutes ago, Bombaatu said:

Well, I've taken a first crack at it but it doesn't seem to be doing anything. I don't know if I misspelled something. I got the value of the NEEDS block from the SEP part in KPBS; the module definitions were lifted out of the SEP central station config file. The only edit I made to the module was setting animated to False & removing the animation name.

When I launch a part configured as a GeoLab, I do not see the 'Begin All Experiments' button in the right-click menu, nor anywhere in the Manage Operations dialog. This may be because there is currently no way to attach experiments, though. 

 

 

Awesome! Can you connect the SEP experiments to the KAS port on the Saddle? Maybe that'll do the trick. Not sure how SEP works so this is new for me..

[Bombaatu]

37 minutes ago, Angel-125 said:

Awesome! Can you connect the SEP experiments to the KAS port on the Saddle? Maybe that'll do the trick. Not sure how SEP works so this is new for me..

Ok - the port on the saddle will connect to an SEP power conduit. However, the experiment did not recognize that it was connected to an SEP Central Station when I had a scientist try to calibrate it. Nor did the "Run All Experiments" button show in the right-click dialog for the Ponderosa. Maybe @CobaltWolf has some insights... ?

[Angelo Kerman]

43 minutes ago, Bombaatu said:

Ok - the port on the saddle will connect to an SEP power conduit. However, the experiment did not recognize that it was connected to an SEP Central Station when I had a scientist try to calibrate it. Nor did the "Run All Experiments" button show in the right-click dialog for the Ponderosa. Maybe @CobaltWolf has some insights... ?

Hm, ok. Maybe the ModuleEPStation needs to go on the Saddle? It seems like SEP needs a direct connect to the experiments.

Edit: Scratch that, looking at the source code, the Module SEPStation should look through the entire vessel to find experiments. In that case, what happens if you change:

PATH_HABITATION[GeoLab]:FOR[Pathfinder]:NEEDS[SEPScience]

to:

@ PATH_HABITATION[GeoLab]:FOR[Pathfinder]:NEEDS[SEPScience]

?

If that doesn't work, what about changing it to:

@PART[WBI_Ponderosa,WBI_Ponderosa2]:FOR[Pathfinder]:NEEDS[SEPScience]

?

Edited February 6, 2017 by Angel-125

[Bombaatu]

11 minutes ago, Angel-125 said:

Hm, ok. Maybe the ModuleEPStation needs to go on the Saddle? It seems like SEP needs a direct connect to the experiments.

I'm not so sure. I know that when you set up an SEP station, several experiments can be hooked up to a power distribution node, which is then connected to an SEP Central Station; the gist is, it doesn't have to be a direct connection between the experiment and the central station. I would think the Ponderosa being attached to the Saddle would convey the 'signal', assuming the central station module loads the in first place. I suspect the module isn't loading in the template at all, but I'm unsure how to test this.

Edited February 6, 2017 by Bombaatu

[Angelo Kerman]

Just now, Bombaatu said:

I'm not so sure. I know that when you set up an SEP station, several experiments can be hooked up to a power distribution node, which is then connected to an SEP Central Station; the gist is, it doesn't have to be a direct connection between the experiment and the central station. I would think the Ponderosa being attached to the Saddle would convey the 'signal', assuming the central station module loads the in first place. I suspect the module isn't loading in the template at all.

Edit: Scratch that, looking at the source code, the Module SEPStation should look through the entire vessel to find experiments. In that case, what happens if you change:

PATH_HABITATION[GeoLab]:FOR[Pathfinder]:NEEDS[SEPScience]

to:

@ PATH_HABITATION[GeoLab]:FOR[Pathfinder]:NEEDS[SEPScience]

?

If that doesn't work, what about changing it to:

@PART[WBI_Ponderosa,WBI_Ponderosa2]:FOR[Pathfinder]:NEEDS[SEPScience]

[Bombaatu]

32 minutes ago, Angel-125 said:

Edit: Scratch that, looking at the source code, the Module SEPStation should look through the entire vessel to find experiments. In that case, what happens if you change:

PATH_HABITATION[GeoLab]:FOR[Pathfinder]:NEEDS[SEPScience]

to:

@ PATH_HABITATION[GeoLab]:FOR[Pathfinder]:NEEDS[SEPScience]

?

If that doesn't work, what about changing it to:

@PART[WBI_Ponderosa,WBI_Ponderosa2]:FOR[Pathfinder]:NEEDS[SEPScience]

This did the trick: @ PATH_HABITATION[GeoLab]:FOR[Pathfinder]:NEEDS[SEPScience]. Of note: my original testing was in Sandbox mode, but then I noticed SEP options weren't available in the setup. To test, I started a new Career game with tons of starting money & science to unlock the necessary nodes. With the above change in place, scientists can now calibrate experiments. In the right-click for the Ponderosa, you must first click the 'Activate' button, then you can 'Run All Experiments'.

One thing I did notice when setting up - I needed a physical connection between the craft with Equipment & the Saddle. I had configured the Coach Logistic Module's distribution to share Equipment, but the Ponderosa still stated it required 600 Equipment to inflate. When I checked Distribution for the Ponderosa, Equipment was not on the list - is this by design or an oversight?

 

Here is the full config for the SEP patch - I saved it as MM_SEP.cfg in /GameData/WildBlueIndustries/Pathfinder/ModuleManagerPatches:

Quote

@PATH_HABITATION[GeoLab]:FOR[Pathfinder]:NEEDS[SEPScience]
{
    MODULE
    {
        name = ModuleSEPStation
        
        interactionRange = 1.5
        deployEventName = Activate
        retractEventName = Shut Down
        conductExperimentsEventName = Begin All Experiments
        
        maxExperiments = 8
        transmitUnlockTech = advElectrics
        
        animated = False
    }
    MODULE
    {
        name = ModuleSEPECViewer
    }
    
     MODULE
    {
        name = ModuleDataTransmitter
        antennaType = DIRECT
        packetInterval = 0.6
        packetSize = 4
        packetResourceCost = 4.0
        requiredResource = ElectricCharge
        DeployFxModules = 1
        antennaPower = 5000000
        antennaCombinable = True
    }

}

 

[Angelo Kerman]

49 minutes ago, Bombaatu said:

One thing I did notice when setting up - I needed a physical connection between the craft with Equipment & the Saddle. I had configured the Coach Logistic Module's distribution to share Equipment, but the Ponderosa still stated it required 600 Equipment to inflate. When I checked Distribution for the Ponderosa, Equipment was not on the list - is this by design or an oversight?

 

Outstanding, thanks for putting that together! Not sure what the problem is, can you show me a screenshot of your setup so I can try to reproduce it?

[Sudragon]

I can see that SEP conversation taking place between Bill and Bob, on the Mun while they kludge an interface together from ummm 'spare' parts. Then Jeb being annoyed because said 'spare' parts coming from the microwave and Koffee maker.

[Bombaatu]

1 hour ago, Angel-125 said:

Outstanding, thanks for putting that together! Not sure what the problem is, can you show me a screenshot of your setup so I can try to reproduce it?

I see what I did - I didn't click the "participate" radio button. Running into a different issue where the Ponderosa's right-click menu is unresponsive, but I think that's just a glitch - going to restart & see if that resolves it.

[Sudragon]

One thing I have noticed...If you use the workshop mod to make one of the inflatables, they weigh too much to be carried. More details when i can get screenshots.

[Angelo Kerman]

4 minutes ago, Sudragon said:

One thing I have noticed...If you use the workshop mod to make one of the inflatables, they weigh too much to be carried. More details when i can get screenshots.

I think I know what's going on: OSE Workshop adds resources to the part when it's created. If you bring two or three kerbals out to pull the part from storage, you should see it full of resources. I tried having the part dump its resources when created in its deflated state, but that doesn't seem to be helping.

[Sudragon]

Random thought...re the wheeljack, Buffalo, KAS assembly and problems therein...what if the top node on the wheeljack was a docking node?

[Angelo Kerman]

1 hour ago, Sudragon said:

Random thought...re the wheeljack, Buffalo, KAS assembly and problems therein...what if the top node on the wheeljack was a docking node?

That's an interesting idea... It might work, you'd have to connect to something like the trailer hitch, or a small underside docking port, but maybe it'll do the job.