[Min KSP: 1.12.2] Pathfinder - Space Camping & Geoscience

[rasta013]

13 hours ago, Enceos said:

I'm asking because I had an idea of making a placeable decal platform so we could paint our wings and ships with pictures and stuff.

 

7 hours ago, Angel-125 said:

 

@Kuzzter uses a mod that has decals in it so I know that your idea is possible.

Don't know if this is the same one but this is the one that I use and point people towards.  It's simple and never has been updated that I know of but keeps on ticking like a Timex apparently.  @Enceos It would be really awesome to see something like this rounded out and improved.

 

[Enceos]

4 hours ago, rasta013 said:

 

Don't know if this is the same one but this is the one that I use and point people towards.  It's simple and never has been updated that I know of but keeps on ticking like a Timex apparently.  @Enceos It would be really awesome to see something like this rounded out and improved.

 

Good one, it is basically a 'parts mod', so no wonder it keeps ticking. It relies on Firespitter for texture switching, so you need to change the configs every time you want to add a new texture. What I liked most about WBI texture switching on monitors is you can assign them any picture from the screenshots folder on the fly, plus it dynamically loads those pictures into the game on demand, so you can add a new picture and load it onto a part even while KSP is still running.

@Angel-125 What type of textures does the plugin support? the .png images don't have mipmaps in them and become very pixelated on zooming out. As far as I know from the list of widely supported types of images TGA can store mipmaps. And of course we all love DDS

Edited June 15, 2016 by Enceos

[Angelo Kerman]

18 minutes ago, Enceos said:

Good one, it is basically a 'parts mod', so no wonder it keeps ticking. It relies on Firespitter for texture switching, so you need to change the configs every time you want to add a new texture. What I liked most about WBI texture switching on monitors is you can assign them any picture from the screenshots folder on the fly, plus it dynamically loads those pictures into the game on demand, so you can add a new picture and load it onto a part even while KSP is still running.

@Angel-125 What type of textures does the plugin support? the .png images don't have mipmaps in them and become very pixelated on zooming out. As far as I know from the list of widely supported types of images TGA can store mipmaps. And of course we all love DDS

The unity documentation says you can load PNG or JPG. I'm sure there is a way to load other image types because KSP does it, but I don't know how that would happen.

[Enceos]

22 minutes ago, Angel-125 said:

The unity documentation says you can load PNG or JPG. I'm sure there is a way to load other image types because KSP does it, but I don't know how that would happen.

Any relevant info on this page? 

http://answers.unity3d.com/questions/10292/how-do-i-generate-mipmaps-at-runtime.html

[Angelo Kerman]

11 hours ago, Enceos said:

Any relevant info on this page? 

http://answers.unity3d.com/questions/10292/how-do-i-generate-mipmaps-at-runtime.html

Not that I can see. That page lets you specify the image size, that might be helpful to you though.

[Angelo Kerman]

With MOLE now in good shape for awhile, I can start working on Pathfinder again. I'm working on some improvements for TAC-LS support (the Ponderosa will get a Carbon Extractor), and added an inflated crew capacity indicator to the inflatable part's summary page, like so:

@TheReadPanda might like that one.

Also, I've verified that I cannot place a Doc Science Lab into a container due using  KIS 1.2.11. This is what I see in the logs:

Spoiler

[EXC 16:09:13.293] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
    ModuleScienceLab.OnSave (.ConfigNode node)
    PartModule.Save (.ConfigNode node)
    ProtoPartModuleSnapshot..ctor (.PartModule module)
    ProtoPartSnapshot..ctor (.Part PartRef, .ProtoVessel protoVessel)
    KIS.KIS_Shared.PartSnapshot (.Part part)
    KIS.KIS_Item..ctor (.Part part, KIS.ModuleKISInventory inventory, Single quantity)
    KIS.ModuleKISInventory.AddItem (.Part part, Single qty, Int32 slot)
    KIS.ModuleKISInventory.GuiHandleEmptySlot (Rect textureRect, Int32 slotIndex)
    KIS.ModuleKISInventory.GuiInventory ()
    KIS.ModuleKISInventory.GuiMain (Int32 windowID)
    UnityEngine.GUILayout+LayoutedWindow.DoWindow (Int32 windowID)
    UnityEngine.GUI.CallWindowDelegate (UnityEngine.WindowFunction func, Int32 id, UnityEngine.GUISkin _skin, Int32 forceRect, Single width, Single height, UnityEngine.GUIStyle style)

ModuleScienceLab is a stock module that I have no control over, so I suspect there is an issue in KIS. I can confirm that trying to store the stock Mobile Processing Lab gives the exact same error.

Meanwhile I'm also writing a converter to convert Uranite to Uranium and Oxygen- apparently Uranite is most often UO2.

Plus, I'm working towards those 3D printed base modules by experimenting with how to spawn parts during flight. I'm convinced it's possible, just have to figure out the right magic. That, and I'm targeting the Doc for the next IVA. I seriously doubt those will be done before KSP 1.1.3 drops but you'll definitely get some bug fixes and the new converter.

Edited June 19, 2016 by Angel-125

[TheReadPanda]

@Angel-125 There was a mod that could 'print' small KIS parts.

Perhaps this mod could point you in the code direction you would need to make a 3d printer to make your parts? Might at least give you some ideas.

Big thing I'm looking for right now is a module that can make a truly closed loop for TAC-LS and make /more/ than I need with the right inputs so I can build a 'farm' colony to feed passing kerbals and load up colony ships. My math shows the food systems for pathfinder are a bit lacking in that area at the moment but we talked about that on stream earlier today. I'd be fine with it being a rather large single purpose building as long as I could have a 'greenhouse' dome. Might be able to make it use multiple configs to work with kerbalism/USI/TAC depending on which is installed, not sure. I don't make part mods but I have done cfg files and trouble shot some.

Now if only we could 3D print new kerbals on site, or 'decant/clone' them.

Then I could expand colonies off kerbin without shipping everyone there!

 

[Nightside]

@TheReadPanda Pathfinder already has OSE compatibility. I could be wrong, but it sounds like Angel-125 is trying to make it so you could choose which inflatables to build off the end of your existing base. It sounds really cool and it would be great to have modular base building without the KIS dependency.

[DStaal]

Actually, from what it sounds like, the code he needs to look at is Extraplanetary Launchpads - which can spawn parts connected to the current ship.  (It then undocks them.)

[Angelo Kerman]

2 hours ago, TheReadPanda said:

@Angel-125 There was a mod that could 'print' small KIS parts.

Perhaps this mod could point you in the code direction you would need to make a 3d printer to make your parts? Might at least give you some ideas.

Big thing I'm looking for right now is a module that can make a truly closed loop for TAC-LS and make /more/ than I need with the right inputs so I can build a 'farm' colony to feed passing kerbals and load up colony ships. My math shows the food systems for pathfinder are a bit lacking in that area at the moment but we talked about that on stream earlier today. I'd be fine with it being a rather large single purpose building as long as I could have a 'greenhouse' dome. Might be able to make it use multiple configs to work with kerbalism/USI/TAC depending on which is installed, not sure. I don't make part mods but I have done cfg files and trouble shot some.

Now if only we could 3D print new kerbals on site, or 'decant/clone' them.

Then I could expand colonies off kerbin without shipping everyone there!

 

Yup, OSE Workshop support is available (and being updated to the latest) but the code might indeed help. Once I figure it out Pathfinder will have the ability to print habitat modules wholesale.  

Right now you convert the Chuckwagon into a greenhouse and the configs are already built to support Snacks, USI-LS, Kerbalism, and TAC-LS, but the TAC-LS version will get a buff on its food output to 100 units.

For the industrial greenhouse, perhaps a variation on the Hacienda would work as a stopgap. It has large windows, and I might be able to make a greenhouse IVA variant that the Hacienda could switch to. It certainly has lots of space...

1 hour ago, DStaal said:

Actually, from what it sounds like, the code he needs to look at is Extraplanetary Launchpads - which can spawn parts connected to the current ship.  (It then undocks them.)

That is part of the puzzle and will let me spawn expansion habs. The other piece of the puzzle is the ability to spawn a part like a ship appearing in a space designated by survey stakes.

[TheReadPanda]

Actually, now there's a thing. You can have 'launch pads'. So what you want are one use launch pads it sounds like. Build there, no decouple and then deactivate that as a launch pad. not sure how the code would go but... sounds plausible? Maybe? At lease that sounds like what you want to do.... Yeah, probably have to talk to the maker of EPL for that, or dig into the EPL code to make your own module for that. Sorry, I didn't understand what you were trying to do.

[AdmiralTigerclaw]

Hey @Angel-125.  A suggestion if I may.  I got back into this recently, and I thought things were broke all to hell and back again trying to set up test rigs.  After hunting around, I realized you added tech tree nodes to individual modules of the parts without any prompting to indicate it.  I've spent a few hours messing around with it hunting for a setup to use the Hot Springs going 'WHERE IS IT?!  IT SHOULD BE HERE!'

I might suggest some form of prompting to indicate the player doesn't have certain techs, and what techs are needed.

[Angelo Kerman]

9 minutes ago, AdmiralTigerclaw said:

Hey @Angel-125.  A suggestion if I may.  I got back into this recently, and I thought things were broke all to hell and back again trying to set up test rigs.  After hunting around, I realized you added tech tree nodes to individual modules of the parts without any prompting to indicate it.  I've spent a few hours messing around with it hunting for a setup to use the Hot Springs going 'WHERE IS IT?!  IT SHOULD BE HERE!'

I might suggest some form of prompting to indicate the player doesn't have certain techs, and what techs are needed.

Hm, I like the idea. I need to refactor the Operations Manager's template selection to work similarly to the current storage system (you get a list of icons showing what storage templates you can select from), so the rework might show you all the potential templates you can use, but gray out the ones whose tech you haven't researched yet. I'll have to think about how to do that, the system is designed to weed out the templates that you can't use, including ones you haven't researched yet.

[AdmiralTigerclaw]

Just now, Angel-125 said:

Hm, I like the idea. I need to refactor the Operations Manager's template selection to work similarly to the current storage system (you get a list of icons showing what storage templates you can select from), so the rework might show you all the potential templates you can use, but gray out the ones whose tech you haven't researched yet. I'll have to think about how to do that, the system is designed to weed out the templates that you can't use, including ones you haven't researched yet.

 

The interface is also an unruly mess.  Some actions are in your interface, others are in the right-click context menus.  Just trying to set up a basic surface test operation is a nightmare of moving in and out of menu sets.  I would really say, that what you need is to not only consolidate the right-click actions into your interface, but to have the interface collect and list out all modules attached to any given physical base.  (IE, one menu showing the Ponderosa, Hacienda, Doc, etc that are attached to one particular base that way you don't have to flit around between each interface.)

 

Distributed bases shouldn't be an issue.

 

It might also be a good idea to have some informative context when building a vehicle that suggests the minimum equipment for starting a field base.  Heck, a whole list of them as such.

 

1: Field Lab (Basic Starter Base)

- 1x Ponderosa

- 1x Saddle

- 1x Gold Digger

-1x Poncho

-1x Buckboard

 

2: Power Plant (Geotherm)

- 1x Ponderosa

- 1x Saddle

- 2x Hacienda

- 1x Buckboard 

 

etc.

[Angelo Kerman]

12 hours ago, AdmiralTigerclaw said:

 

The interface is also an unruly mess.  Some actions are in your interface, others are in the right-click context menus.  Just trying to set up a basic surface test operation is a nightmare of moving in and out of menu sets.  I would really say, that what you need is to not only consolidate the right-click actions into your interface, but to have the interface collect and list out all modules attached to any given physical base.  (IE, one menu showing the Ponderosa, Hacienda, Doc, etc that are attached to one particular base that way you don't have to flit around between each interface.)

 

Distributed bases shouldn't be an issue.

 

It might also be a good idea to have some informative context when building a vehicle that suggests the minimum equipment for starting a field base.  Heck, a whole list of them as such.

 

1: Field Lab (Basic Starter Base)

- 1x Ponderosa

- 1x Saddle

- 1x Gold Digger

-1x Poncho

-1x Buckboard

 

2: Power Plant (Geotherm)

- 1x Ponderosa

- 1x Saddle

- 2x Hacienda

- 1x Buckboard 

 

etc.

Your suggestion about showing all templates for a part but flagging the ones that aren't researched yet is spot on. However, saying that the interface is "an unruly mess" is not only not helpful, it turns me off from wanting to do anything about it. Some of that "unruly mess" is beyond my control and the result of GUI from other mods or GUI from stock PartModules that don't cooperate with having their GUI hidden. The idea of having a centralized converter manager for all vessels in physics range is a good one, I will look into it.

[AdmiralTigerclaw]

1 hour ago, Angel-125 said:

Your suggestion about showing all templates for a part but flagging the ones that aren't researched yet is spot on. However, saying that the interface is "an unruly mess" is not only not helpful, it turns me off from wanting to do anything about it. Some of that "unruly mess" is beyond my control and the result of GUI from other mods or GUI from stock PartModules that don't cooperate with having their GUI hidden. The idea of having a centralized converter manager for all vessels in physics range is a good one, I will look into it.

I would say, don't even TRY to hide the stuff that doesn't like to hide its GUI.  Rather, just make sure your manager can point at all the buttons itself.

For example, the HACIENDA IMF has converters for different modules, but key parts, like the Claim Jumper, require you to leave the dedicated interface and right-click for a context GUI to start the mining drill component.  I'd say, don't hide it.  Just make sure the CJ has the start/stop commands and drill switch in the main interface.

 

[TheReadPanda]

I was actually at the point I was going to start this on Minmus before my apartment got into sauna mode. 

One question, I scanned both the mun and minmus and perhaps I am doing it wrong but I have yet to spot any geothermal spots (not that I would actually expect any on minmus now that I think about it. It is an Ice moon, right?)

 

[Angelo Kerman]

3 hours ago, TheReadPanda said:

I was actually at the point I was going to start this on Minmus before my apartment got into sauna mode. 

One question, I scanned both the mun and minmus and perhaps I am doing it wrong but I have yet to spot any geothermal spots (not that I would actually expect any on minmus now that I think about it. It is an Ice moon, right?)

 

It is based upon the GeoEnergyResource.cfg file in the Pathfinder root directory. Minmus is considered to be too small to be geologically active. For the Mun, it should be just as active as Kerbin. If not I might need to adjust the percentages.

Meanwhile, last night I made some good progress on the Operations window refactor:

Behind the scenes, I'm using the same resource selection window that the storage parts use, which makes my life much easier. The left pane has tab buttons to select the desired view, and it changes depending upon what template you have loaded. The right pane is the current view. The advantage of this approach is that I'll be able to create a Base Operations View (probably not in the next release though) that will let you manage all bases within physics range and all parts within that base, all using just one window- and using screens you'll already be familiar with.

[AdmiralTigerclaw]

Awesome.

 

Workflow from improved GUI, +5.

[Angelo Kerman]

Some of the things you will be able to control from Base Operations Manager (on all parts and vessels within physics range that can be managed):

Converters

Resource Distributors

Module Configurations

Drills, including stock drills, Gold Digger, and Claim Jumper

Cooling towers

Lights

Possibly storage container configurations

 

I also want to highlight the part you are managing when you hover the mouse over its ID label. Agaiin, this won't be in the next release, as I need to get Pathfinder ready for KSP 1.1.3, but it will be in the release after the 1.1.3 compatibility release.

[TheReadPanda]

But Minmus is my favorite moon! Awww. No Geothermal on my favorite moon. Sad Panda Face.

Still, thanks for all your hard work.  

[Angelo Kerman]

12 minutes ago, TheReadPanda said:

But Minmus is my favorite moon! Awww. No Geothermal on my favorite moon. Sad Panda Face.

Still, thanks for all your hard work.  

Yup, based upon the wiki entry,wiki entry Minmus appears to be a captured comet. So it has no GeoEnergy to run a power plant with. I would think that it has plenty of water or hydrates though, that can be cracked in the science labs and then combined to produce some power, and you can convert the Buckboards into Ore-powered generators...

[TheReadPanda]

14 minutes ago, Angel-125 said:

Yup, based upon the wiki entry,wiki entry Minmus appears to be a captured comet. So it has no GeoEnergy to run a power plant with. I would think that it has plenty of water or hydrates though, that can be cracked in the science labs and then combined to produce some power, and you can convert the Buckboards into Ore-powered generators...

The problem I have is almost every time I scan Minmus the 'flats' and I mean all of them, have zero water. Maybe I just have bad luck with things but sure is frustrating to look at an 'ice' moon like Minmus and find no water in any of the easy to land places. Usually have to build entire drill rigs away from my main base to supply water. Kinda wish there were some 'norms' set for resource allocation. I am unsure if random seed makes all that much sense in truth. 

[AdmiralTigerclaw]

One of the main points of RNG seeding is to keep every game unique so nobody can just make 'this is best spot' notes and then spread them on the web.  It's not really all that fun to explore when, after two games, you know to just make a beeline for location Z.

 

Considering that GEOLOGY is a major component of the whole Pathfinder mod, perhaps down the line, the mapping for each planet can be randomized in tolerance ranges based on certain mechanics. 

 

For example:  Using SCANsat maps as an example, constraints can be built into seeding that depend on the slope and altitude maps.

1 - If you're looking for metals, chances are you're more inclined to find them near areas of greater tectonic activity, (where geologic upheaval has forced them to the surface).  Define an acceptable area on kerbin as an area that has an average slope value above say, 15 degrees, and an altitude above 1500 or 2000 meters.  Add in an edge feathering value to smooth it, fill in holes, and widen the area to include immediate surroundings, and then apply the seeded randomization to generate your deposit densities. 

2 - Soil/dirt quality would be a more biome dependent value.  You'll obviously get more dirt/topsoil of quality from organically rich areas like forests and grasslands than mountains, deserts, or tundra.  And that's just on Kerbin.

 

 

Apply some Wiki'd up knowledge of where this kind of stuff happens to what material types, and build your parameters.  Clusters of resource types will be inclined to make geological sense, and you'll have like-resources (ores/metal ores/metallic ores/whatever) more likely to spawn overlapping, or close together.

 

[Angelo Kerman]

58 minutes ago, TheReadPanda said:

The problem I have is almost every time I scan Minmus the 'flats' and I mean all of them, have zero water. Maybe I just have bad luck with things but sure is frustrating to look at an 'ice' moon like Minmus and find no water in any of the easy to land places. Usually have to build entire drill rigs away from my main base to supply water. Kinda wish there were some 'norms' set for resource allocation. I am unsure if random seed makes all that much sense in truth. 

I think I know why you're not seeing water on Minmus: The Community Resource Pack doesn't specify any resource distributions for it! Since that isn't touched by CRP, I can add a patch for that and it will be available in the next release of Pathfinder.

 

10 minutes ago, AdmiralTigerclaw said:

One of the main points of RNG seeding is to keep every game unique so nobody can just make 'this is best spot' notes and then spread them on the web.  It's not really all that fun to explore when, after two games, you know to just make a beeline for location Z.

 

Considering that GEOLOGY is a major component of the whole Pathfinder mod, perhaps down the line, the mapping for each planet can be randomized in tolerance ranges based on certain mechanics. 

 

For example:  Using SCANsat maps as an example, constraints can be built into seeding that depend on the slope and altitude maps.

1 - If you're looking for metals, chances are you're more inclined to find them near areas of greater tectonic activity, (where geologic upheaval has forced them to the surface).  Define an acceptable area on kerbin as an area that has an average slope value above say, 15 degrees, and an altitude above 1500 or 2000 meters.  Add in an edge feathering value to smooth it, fill in holes, and widen the area to include immediate surroundings, and then apply the seeded randomization to generate your deposit densities. 

2 - Soil/dirt quality would be a more biome dependent value.  You'll obviously get more dirt/topsoil of quality from organically rich areas like forests and grasslands than mountains, deserts, or tundra.  And that's just on Kerbin.

 

 

Apply some Wiki'd up knowledge of where this kind of stuff happens to what material types, and build your parameters.  Clusters of resource types will be inclined to make geological sense, and you'll have like-resources (ores/metal ores/metallic ores/whatever) more likely to spawn overlapping, or close together.

 

The only thing I can see as an issue is where CRP defines resource definitions. Modifying CRP kind of defeats the purpose of CRP. In the case above of Minmus having water, that's something I can change.

Meanwhile, I'm finishing up the infrastructure changes I need for Pathfinder. I should have an update for KSP 1.1.3 in the next day or two.