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[1.12.3] Bluedog Design Bureau - Stockalike Saturn, Apollo, and more! (v1.10.2 "Луна" 14/May/2022)


CobaltWolf
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17 minutes ago, Pappystein said:

Aside from the Saturn C-2 having two completely different versions (pre Silverstein and post Silverstein commission) and the missing NASA S-III from said C-2 and the S-IVC   that is a good collection of data there Friznit

Yes the ETS S-IVC should really be the S-IVD :D     NASA designed/designated a S-IVC as a 14.7 (ksp scale) meter long stage with a single J-2S engine.   That would latter be rolled into the MLV as the MS-IVB-1A or -3 (at 14.67m KSP scale)    Please note lengths be very subjective in space documents so... 

 

I am going to, this weekend, submit a FOIA for the Prelim design of the Saturn C-2 from 1960 to hopefully get more insight and design information on the Saturn S-III stage.

 

Yep, the C-series table is mostly from the usual interweb source, I've not gone through the source docs to correct it all yet.  I need to add all the early INT stuff, then figure out a way to simplify everything down to something accessible to a KSP player who just wants to build the bloody things!

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I've encountered some problems with INT-17:

-If I replace the HG-3s with RL-20s on the first stage, the TWR is ~0.8-0.9 (this factors in the tank stretches, a completely unstretched INT-17 [which I call INT-17A, which is entirely made up by me] flies well with just RL-20

-J-2T400K works effectively on the streched INT-17 [which I call INT-17B, also entirely made up], but IIRC (please correct me if I'm wrong) HG-3 will be removed at some point, and since J-2T400K uses a HG-3 powerhead it would make sense (atleast to me) to also remove J-2T400K

-Sadly, J-2T and J-2T-250K feature a SL performance too low to effectively use them on INT-17(B)

so, I've came up with 2 fictional INT-17 variants as I mentioned

-INT-17A: Standart tank lengths, only uses RL-20

-INT-17B: Streched, uses J-2T400Ks on the 1st stage and 1 J-2T400K or J-2T250K on the 2nd stage

 

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10 minutes ago, Starhelperdude said:

I've encountered some problems with INT-17:

Yeah... as far as I can tell, it was a pretty marginal LV that they stopped looking into pretty quickly. Boosting it solves some of the issues but not all of them.

I don't know why we'd remove the J-2T 400K?

 

56 minutes ago, 1124max said:

@CobaltWolf regarding the previously mentioned issue with the aj-260 part switch I have noticed a similar issue with the f-1v and f-1av having the same performance values as the f-1a.

Uh... y'know, I might not have even put in new performance numbers, I was so busy dealing with some other issues that part was giving me.

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16 minutes ago, Starhelperdude said:

I've encountered some problems with INT-17:

-If I replace the HG-3s with RL-20s on the first stage, the TWR is ~0.8-0.9 (this factors in the tank stretches, a completely unstretched INT-17 [which I call INT-17A, which is entirely made up by me] flies well with just RL-20

-J-2T400K works effectively on the streched INT-17 [which I call INT-17B, also entirely made up], but IIRC (please correct me if I'm wrong) HG-3 will be removed at some point, and since J-2T400K uses a HG-3 powerhead it would make sense (atleast to me) to also remove J-2T400K

-Sadly, J-2T and J-2T-250K feature a SL performance too low to effectively use them on INT-17(B)

so, I've came up with 2 fictional INT-17 variants as I mentioned

-INT-17A: Standart tank lengths, only uses RL-20

-INT-17B: Streched, uses J-2T400Ks on the 1st stage and 1 J-2T400K or J-2T250K on the 2nd stage

 

INT-17 is a "Paper Rocket" not meant to actually fly.    ALSO the program ALWAYS ran it in their simulations at like 75% S-II fuel load and 80% SIVB fuel load

You are also using the 7 engine mount yes?

also thanks for using my J-2T-400K patch :D

RE removal of the J-2T-400K,   That is my flavor text.  The one document that covers it does not say where the extra power came from and I *ASSUMED* that it was from a HG-3 Turbo pump assembly/powerhead.

Edited by Pappystein
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4 minutes ago, Pappystein said:

RE removal of the J-2T-400K,   That is my flavor text.  The one document that covers it does not say where the extra power came from and I *ASSUMED* that it was from a HG-3 Turbo pump assembly/powerhead.

Well now that we have more "real" HG-3 alternatives, could it be speculated that the pumps are RL-20 or XLR-129 derived?

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21 minutes ago, Spaceman.Spiff said:

Well now that we have more "real" HG-3 alternatives, could it be speculated that the pumps are RL-20 or XLR-129 derived?

while a good idea,   J-2 is a Rocketdyne engine and RL20 and XLR-129 are both Pratt and Whitney.   It is safe to say that the J-2T-400K needs a lot of TLC (I can actually reduce part count by creating a engine switch to add it to the standard J-2T-200/250)  

The performance would stay the same.  But one less part to filter through (I am likely going to be doing the same to the LR87-AJ-11 for the AJ-11A of the Titan IV.)    I haven't decided how far down the rabbit hole I want to dive with my adendum patches in the extras folder

Just nice to see someone using one of my patches once and a while :D

 

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A really speculative configuration  for BDB_Extras that meets the upper end of the HG-3 study parameters (300k to 400k lbf thrust) would be a large bell XLR129, final production SSME config. That is to say during the SSME competition the XLR129 based P&W model had components tested at 350k thrust, at the time the competition called for 400k lbf. The 350k config is represented in BDB main but if we speculate that P&W won the competition under those conditions it seems realistic they could have met the thrust target.

ps. They lost on the basis they could not match the 500k + revised target and it seems questionable they could have achieved that but 400k seems feasible.

Edited by Zorg
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In non-Saturn, but still lunar, news ...  I enjoy flying anything Delta, so this was an interesting mission.

J4Pvg4v.png

I did have an issue, though.

If I'm not mistaken (haha slim chance) the TLI in this mission is started on the Delta upper stage, and finished on the Staara 37. I arrived at this conclusion just because neither of them have enough dV alone. So based on that assumption, the issue I had is that the probe doesn't have a Reversed control point. So the Delta upper stage is in control at the start of the TLI, but then when the separation happened, I completely lost everything about the maneuver. Switching control points mid-burn AND dealing with the control direction being reversed proved impossible for me to complete the burn. So, I added a reversed control point to the probe, and did the TLI with the probe control reversed and in control of the entire TLI. Then I set it back to Normal and did the retro burn facing prograde. Criticism welcome :P but couldn't figure out another way to pull this off.

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Taco Salad said:

Hot diggity damn I Love kitbashing with this mod. Super excited for some of the stuff I've seen here like the stage-and-a-half Saturn, so of course I'm gonna ask the probably dumb question of when do y'all think we'll get to play with these new toys?

20211027191314_1.jpg
 

You can play with them right now, by downloading the dev branch.

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Someone has probably already brought it up, buuuut, would a deployable wing Gemini be considered? Gliding a capsule back down to the desert runway would be fun, and I'm sure with the lego-ability most of the parts here have that I'd be sticking it onto as much stuff as I feasibly could. I'd check if this was already brought up and responded to, but I have no clue how to search just this thread.
Gemini_paraglider.png

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6 minutes ago, Taco Salad said:

Someone has probably already brought it up, buuuut, would a deployable wing Gemini be considered? Gliding a capsule back down to the desert runway would be fun, and I'm sure with the lego-ability most of the parts here have that I'd be sticking it onto as much stuff as I feasibly could. I'd check if this was already brought up and responded to, but I have no clue how to search just this thread.
Gemini_paraglider.png

Already done a while back :D Its an older mod so not sure if still works properly but give this a shot:

https://spacedock.info/mod/1787/Notantares - Gemini Paraglider

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On 11/12/2021 at 4:46 AM, Beccab said:

Augumented performance Space Shuttle (Martin Marietta concept)

Put simply, you take a a Titan first stage, then rework it massively like in the graphics below and fix the asymmetrical thrust while increasing performance at the same time. Hey, as long as it works:P

  Reveal hidden contents

titan-shuttle.jpgststit80.jpg

Mnt2Z9K.pngACnZMIi.pngBDudHd2.pngtXjkkjr.png6A2Oz3w.pngg0agapq.png

Can you put it on KerbalX? I would love to try it out

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