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[1.12.5] Bluedog Design Bureau - Stockalike Saturn, Apollo, and more! (v1.13.0 "Забытый" 13/Aug/2023)


CobaltWolf

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50 minutes ago, pTrevTrevs said:

Man I can’t wait for a proper Pegasus.

This post made by Gang Saturn

Those very long solar panels with an integrated micrometeor detector as well as the odd lateral solar panels would be amazing!

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5 hours ago, pTrevTrevs said:

Man I can’t wait for a proper Pegasus.

I really want a proper ETS Pegasus in the Saturn Update (I know they are completely different, but I don't care ;.;)

Also I'm sorry, but I can't help Myself - 

5 hours ago, pTrevTrevs said:

sus

:o 

Edited by AmateurAstronaut1969
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Running 1.11.2 on a stock Kerbin.

Does anyone have some tips on how to accurately land a Gemini? I usually end up way short or way long. Given the ISP of the reentry solids, is there an optimum altitude to begin the reentry burn? I have started at 180 km and that is way too high resulting in a periapsis of 38 km and a very long landing. My last flight I started at 165 km and that only resulted in a periapsis of 23 km, again resulting in a long landing. Starting lower than 165 km seems to be kind of unrealistic. Mechjeb is not much help.

I am getting the impression that the reentry solids are a bit underpowered. I have been using them in sequential fire mode, thinking that a longer overall burn time is better than one big push.

I have also been fiddling with the offset center of mass and that seems to have little to no effect.

By the way, I appreciate the change to a horizontal splashdown attitude. It is a little more accurate historically. Since the two point suspension is not technically doable this is the best compromise.

Thanks!

Edited by DaveyJ576
Small change
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3 hours ago, DaveyJ576 said:

Running 1.11.2 on a stock Kerbin.

Does anyone have some tips on how to accurately land a Gemini? I usually end up way short or way long. Given the ISP of the reentry solids, is there an optimum altitude to begin the reentry burn? I have started at 180 km and that is way too high resulting in a periapsis of 38 km and a very long landing. My last flight I started at 165 km and that only resulted in a periapsis of 23 km, again resulting in a long landing. Starting lower than 165 km seems to be kind of unrealistic. Mechjeb is not much help.

I am getting the impression that the reentry solids are a bit underpowered. I have been using them in sequential fire mode, thinking that a longer overall burn time is better than one big push.

I have also been fiddling with the offset center of mass and that seems to have little to no effect.

By the way, I appreciate the change to a horizontal splashdown attitude. It is a little more accurate historically. Since the two point suspension is not technically doable this is the best compromise.

Thanks!

So 2 or 3 questions before providing my experience.

Are you running Gemini (NASA) or Gemini B (USAF?)  

Are you doing sequential fire or are you firing all the SRMs at once?

Are you attempting to "hit some target" or just generally get it... "In the ballpark?"

 

I should add, Mechjeb is pretty good at predicting where a winged vessel will come down but I have found no mod that help predict where you are going to land given your orbit + your Deorbit potential dV.

 

 

Edited by Pappystein
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3 hours ago, Pappystein said:

So 2 or 3 questions before providing my experience.

Are you running Gemini (NASA) or Gemini B (USAF?)  

Are you doing sequential fire or are you firing all the SRMs at once?

Are you attempting to "hit some target" or just generally get it... "In the ballpark?"

 

I should add, Mechjeb is pretty good at predicting where a winged vessel will come down but I have found no mod that help predict where you are going to land given your orbit + your Deorbit potential dV.

 

 

Flying a NASA Gemini and using sequential fire on the solids. I would like to at least get it in the ballpark.

Actually, it has been my experience that Mechjeb will be pretty accurate on the reentry burn with a liquid fuel engine, like the SPS on Apollo. I have been able to drop a CSM in the ocean just off shore from KSC. The solid motor craft, like Mercury and Gemini, not so much.

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2 hours ago, DaveyJ576 said:

Flying a NASA Gemini and using sequential fire on the solids. I would like to at least get it in the ballpark.

Actually, it has been my experience that Mechjeb will be pretty accurate on the reentry burn with a liquid fuel engine, like the SPS on Apollo. I have been able to drop a CSM in the ocean just off shore from KSC. The solid motor craft, like Mercury and Gemini, not so much.

Yep, that is because Mechjeb bases it's calculations on throttling down engines to off.   Something solids just don't do.     When you do a Burn for an maneuver node with MJ you will see that it throttles down for the last bit.   That is to "accurately" place the vessel.   Even if SafeSolids were set up to work on Throttle commands (for their shutoff) you would still have many times where you would overshoot your landing... and potentially Undershoot your approach (meaning you don't come down!)

I am playing in JNSQ on 12.1.   I tend to start my re-entry over the Desert airbase for Mercury and Gemini.   It is "Okay-ish" for landing near the KSC.   However it is load dependent (again because your solids are set for X and only X.....)   Heavier loads will be long, and lighter loads will be shorter (changes in dV of the SRM due to mass change of the ship)

 

 

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1 hour ago, Pappystein said:

Yep, that is because Mechjeb bases it's calculations on throttling down engines to off.   Something solids just don't do.     When you do a Burn for an maneuver node with MJ you will see that it throttles down for the last bit.   That is to "accurately" place the vessel.   Even if SafeSolids were set up to work on Throttle commands (for their shutoff) you would still have many times where you would overshoot your landing... and potentially Undershoot your approach (meaning you don't come down!)

I am playing in JNSQ on 12.1.   I tend to start my re-entry over the Desert airbase for Mercury and Gemini.   It is "Okay-ish" for landing near the KSC.   However it is load dependent (again because your solids are set for X and only X.....)   Heavier loads will be long, and lighter loads will be shorter (changes in dV of the SRM due to mass change of the ship)

 

 

Thank you! Do you have a round number altitude that you start the deorbit burn from?

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12 hours ago, Entr8899 said:

Is there any plan for an OPS-0855 version of the Titan I first stage tanks? Was there even any more to OPS-0855 than a painted fuel tank with a Gemini on top?

Not really, iirc the UV map doesnt really work for that kind of texture and the normal map doesnt work for it either as it seems smoother than a standard Titan I tank. So essentially the resource cost of doing one is basically a new part entirely. Invader and I briefly discussed possibly making a dedicated part for it for BDBNIC but as you pointed out its a non functional boilerplate so it doesnt add anything to game. As such its very much on the back burner (or abandoned possibly).

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17 hours ago, DaveyJ576 said:

Thank you! Do you have a round number altitude that you start the deorbit burn from?

my experience, 180km circular will drop you right near KSP (often to the west of it.)   And 120km circular will drop you just past (east in the water again.)    But I have not tested in a while... been to busy in sandbox building ISS variants

 

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3 hours ago, Zorg said:

Not really, iirc the UV map doesnt really work for that kind of texture and the normal map doesnt work for it either as it seems smoother than a standard Titan I tank. So essentially the resource cost of doing one is basically a new part entirely. Invader and I briefly discussed possibly making a dedicated part for it for BDBNIC but as you pointed out its a non functional boilerplate so it doesnt add anything to game. As such its very much on the back burner (or abandoned possibly).

I am no modeler, well no where near where Cobalt, Zorg or Invaderchaos are.   But I figured I have the "practical" engineering background to explain this further.    

The Engineers didn't take a Titan I first stage, cut off the ends and then slap it in under a Gemini 2 capsule as all the source material  seem to  describes.    They took the Oxidizer tank.   A Pill shaped thing, from a Titan I missile, and then used it as the core structure to build a NEW PART.     In this case, think of the Oxidizer tank like your spinal column, it is what supports your movement, your weight and your head upon your neck.    The Oxidizer tank in question did just that for OPS-0855.

The Titan Rocket family are a mix of monococue tanks (think Automotive Unibody) combined with a truss web structure with the outer skin between the tanks being made of lap-ribbed joined structures (stringer stressed skin.)    The Monococue structure of the tanks is very efficient.  If they were more than 90%  thinner they would be balloon tanks like atlas.  As it is, the Titan tanks are so thick walled that they are actually pretty heavy.  Add the girder web construction and then the stringer stressed skin, and you have an unbelievably strong rocket.    By comparison to other liquid fueled rockets meant to be stored in a silo.       However, what that means is, in the case of OPS-0855, only a small part of the stage was actually a Titan I (by volume... by mass it was like 70%)   

In short, that means that the skin, the visual portion of OPS-0855 would have to be new made... a Bespoke part, Just as Zorg described above.   

 

Oh and before anyone brings up the wrench that launched a nuke.   Remember, Titans were fueled by Hypergolic highly corrosive fuels.  The Bird in question was being service checked to see if the Rocket was still solid enough to launch (were the tanks still in their "service life".)    Yes it was more than just that as part of the maintenance and inspection.... but that was what it was all about.  Were the Titan's still reliable enough to stand Nuclear alert.      Having lived my entire life in the Soviet Union's #2 Nuke target from 1982 to it's dissolution....  I am glad it never came to that.   Is it any wonder that the bulk of the Titan IIs were de-fueled shortly after the accident as they were really in no condition to launch?   This more than anything is why so few Titan 23Gs flew.   The tanks they had available had been eaten away by the fuels to the extent that it was not cost effective to make a bunch of new tanks just to have a launcher that duplicated the performance of Delta II, for about the same cost as Delta II but a much lower reliability estimation.

 

*EDIT ADDED FROM HERE*

I should add that even the current SLS core tank uses the Monococue tanks with a truss-web structure and a stringer skin.   Just on a much thinner scale.   the main form of corrosion caused by the fuel is COLD and rust for lack of a better term, not acidic wear and tear.

 

Edited by Pappystein
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7 hours ago, Jcking said:

The part is already in BDBNIC (at least the Github Dev branch of BDBNIC).

Can confirm, you can see it in one of my posts from a few pages back.

 

On 7/16/2021 at 6:10 PM, KeaKaka said:

427screenshot12.png

 

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It lives yet

unknown.png?width=643&height=806

unknown.png?width=1063&height=806

unknown.png?width=818&height=807

unknown.png?width=1298&height=806

Theres a few things to fix here including positioning of the scientific airlocks and the paint blocking needs to be fine tuned but thought I would post something since I havent in a long while.

ps. The bare gold section will use the normal KSP shader rather than the mapped shader but I might throw in a TU thing into BDB_extras with dedicated PBR textures.

Edited by Zorg
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5 hours ago, Zorg said:

It lives yet

Theres a few things to fix here including positioning of the scientific airlocks and the paint blocking needs to be fine tuned but thought I would post something since I havent in a long while.

ps. The bare gold section will use the normal KSP shader rather than the mapped shader but I might throw in a TU thing into BDB_extras with dedicated PBR textures.

Zorg, I know you are not really fully into the texturing of that yet but day-um it looks good as is.  Can't wait for the finished product.    Now that the "end" of KSP is in sight, A TU extras folder would be nice for this and a couple other parts..... 

Even with Shadowmage mostly gone for the last year+ I am happy most of his projects seem to have width-stood the march of time in KSP coding terms.  

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2 hours ago, Pappystein said:

Zorg, I know you are not really fully into the texturing of that yet but day-um it looks good as is.  Can't wait for the finished product.    Now that the "end" of KSP is in sight, A TU extras folder would be nice for this and a couple other parts..... 

Even with Shadowmage mostly gone for the last year+ I am happy most of his projects seem to have width-stood the march of time in KSP coding terms.  

Just some thoughts...

screen_2560x1440_2021-07-31_18-26-30.png?width=1434&height=806

screen_2560x1440_2021-07-31_19-26-28.png?width=1434&height=806

 

Edited by Zorg
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4 minutes ago, biohazard15 said:

Speaking of micrometeoroid shield: does that use SAF, like Centaur-D?

It uses the same jettison module yes (its not actually SAF its a custom module in the BDB plugin although it is derived from some SAF code iirc)

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19 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

Not quite as exciting, but was sketching some more parts last night.

doF5E4u.png

God, the anticipation for the Kane (Apollo) update is killing me

Out of curiosity, will the release version of 1.9 of BDB be released with all the AAP stuff+the Real Apollo-Saturn configs?

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