[1.12.5] Bluedog Design Bureau - Stockalike Saturn, Apollo, and more! (v1.13.0 "Забытый" 13/Aug/2023)

[Avalon304]

Theres gonna be Saturn stuff? I am excited for that.... may mean Space-Y can take a hike...

[NotAgain]

Can we PLEASE keep the old configuration of the Hermes? Capsule and heatshield separate, as I nearly burned up coming in for SUB ORBIT!

Edited May 15, 2016 by NotAgain
SPaG

[Jso]

@CobaltWolf this is really nice work! I have to admit I was dreading what these Saturns were going to look like on Kerbin but I think this is going to work out. Those Atlas engines are RS-56's so it's a little too much thrust and Isp but it's close enough to play with. The RL10's are the newer A4's so they've got about 50% more thrust than these should.

I can confirm what @Sgt.Shutesie said, it will put 19 tons in orbit with quite a bit of dv left. Much more weight than that and the S-IV won't be lifted high enough to finish the job. It's definitely op but that's to be expected with a cryogenic stage running LFO. If you drop most of the S-IV's fuel to bring it's mass down to a more believable 14 tons it will put 10 tons (the real one is 9 tons) in orbit with a little under 700 dv left, which is about par for the rockets at this scale on Kerbin. That's with only 4 RL10's to put the thrust where it should be.

I didn't do any lofting, just a nice straight-forward ascent.

 

 

[Phineas Freak]

13 hours ago, Sgt.Shutesie said:

S-IV, which btw, did it have a sort of RCS system?

@Sgt.Shutesie@CobaltWolfThe S-IV did not have a dedicated ACS system. The only way of controlling it was when the RL10s were ignited (since all 6 of them can provide plenty of pitch, yaw and roll authority).

[Sgt.Shutesie]

@CobaltWolf We do alternate history, right? When we get around to skylab, would a S-IV based one be possible?

[CobaltWolf]

17 hours ago, Andem said:

Because it's a (generally) taboo subject for Cobalt, you can see why by this face:

Is that lifted now? I don't really know where to go from here.

14 hours ago, 123nick said:

hey @CobaltWolf the small little winglet thing with the rocket motor isnt compatible with FAR. just letting you know, also, did u update the OP too look super cool and snazzy? because it is super cool and snazzy.

Oh? @ferram4 is there a reason why that wouldn't work? It's a fin with a tiny tiny vernier on the end. I took the stock basic fin config and added the appropriate engine modules to it.

Yes, I've been updating the OP. It needs... uh, more - I need to edit up a new imgur album with beauty shots. Maybe I'll just show all the canon launchers, idk.

14 hours ago, Avalon304 said:

Theres gonna be Saturn stuff? I am excited for that.... may mean Space-Y can take a hike...

Yeah it's been on the roadmap for months now. Unless you knew that and still didn't think it was happening.

10 hours ago, NotAgain said:

Can we PLEASE keep the old configuration of the Hermes? Capsule and heatshield separate, as I nearly burned up coming in for SUB ORBIT!

I'm not convinced that the issues people are having aren't from stock issues following the switch. If they're still happening after the next update, I'll look into it. Otherwise, no. I don't plan on keeping the separate heatshield.

5 hours ago, Phineas Freak said:

@Sgt.Shutesie@CobaltWolfThe S-IV did not have a dedicated ACS system. The only way of controlling it was when the RL10s were ignited (since all 6 of them can provide plenty of pitch, yaw and roll authority).

Thanks for the heads up! How do you know all this stuff? Specifically with ACS systems - it is near IMPOSSIBLE for me to find anything detailed those. Do you have any sources I could dig through?

@Sgt.Shutesie Once they're done you would be able to use the APS systems or something else for them. Or even stuff like the Centaur ACS systems which I think I have a reference for sitting around here somewhere.

5 hours ago, Sgt.Shutesie said:

@CobaltWolf We do alternate history, right? When we get around to skylab, would a S-IV based one be possible?

That's MORL! Some of the design elements of those proposals were already integrated into the MOS parts, the rest will come with the Skylab parts expansion (since that will be bigger than just Skylab, since that's, like, 10 parts tops?)

[Phineas Freak]

@CobaltWolfa good source is the NASA Technical Reports Server (NTRS). A lot of material that the search engines sometimes do not index for some reason. Also pictures: some things might not be explicitly written (like the aforementioned S-IV operation). Other than that, searching around on the internet!

[123nick]

3 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

 

Oh? @ferram4 is there a reason why that wouldn't work? It's a fin with a tiny tiny vernier on the end. I took the stock basic fin config and added the appropriate engine modules to it.

 

all aerodynamic bits need too use a updated part module too be compatible with far, IIRC. im not 100% sure how to do it, but u can know it works because in the VAB when u place the part down in the context menu there should be a value called "curWingMass" or something with a slider bar too lower mass of the air part at the cost of it being more fragile.

[sp1989]

19 hours ago, Avalon304 said:

Theres gonna be Saturn stuff? I am excited for that.... may mean Space-Y can take a hike...

I agree! Dont get me wrong i have used and loved space-y for a while but I am not a a huge fan of the aesthetic. Its not a complaint but I am more of a fane of @CobaltWolf and @Beale style of making parts. Space-y for me is not enough kerbal and not enough real world. Especially when you kit bash like I do. The rockets tend to come out looking strange. I either want FASA accuracy or an aesthetic that looks real but still works with stock parts. Long story short I am really excited about the saturn parts. 

[Avalon304]

7 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

Yeah it's been on the roadmap for months now. Unless you knew that and still didn't think it was happening.

Last I asked, there werent plans for it, and then I stopped checking, and just used the pack.

[Andem]

17 hours ago, NotAgain said:

Can we PLEASE keep the old configuration of the Hermes? Capsule and heatshield separate, as I nearly burned up coming in for SUB ORBIT!

Wait, is the hermes heatshield being fused to the pod? NOO!!!!

[Jso]

On 5/15/2016 at 4:09 AM, NotAgain said:

Can we PLEASE keep the old configuration of the Hermes? Capsule and heatshield separate, as I nearly burned up coming in for SUB ORBIT!

 

7 hours ago, Andem said:

Wait, is the hermes heatshield being fused to the pod? NOO!!!!

Can anyone explain why this is a problem? It wouldn't surprise me that it causes issues, but I haven't observed any.

 

Edit: @CobaltWolf stackSymmetry = 7 in the S1 engine mount and stackSymmetry = 5 in the SIV engine mount will have the desired effect.

Edited May 16, 2016 by Jso

[NotAgain]

1 hour ago, Jso said:

Can anyone explain why this is a problem? It wouldn't surprise me that it causes issues, but I haven't observed any.

It puts my capsules in more danger (and there's enough of that already) when re-entering, as all the heat goes straight into the pod. With separate shields, the shield takes the heat throughout, providing a safety buffer and thus, leaving the capsule as cool as a cucumber, while you could fry an egg in two seconds flat on the capsule with the integrated HS.

[akron]

6 hours ago, NotAgain said:

It puts my capsules in more danger (and there's enough of that already) when re-entering, as all the heat goes straight into the pod. With separate shields, the shield takes the heat throughout, providing a safety buffer and thus, leaving the capsule as cool as a cucumber, while you could fry an egg in two seconds flat on the capsule with the integrated HS.

I noticed this when I did a less than optimal re-entry from Minmus, with an angle that pushed 3200 m/s well into the atmosphere. I'll test it some more, but my preliminary findings concur that the separate HS does give an extra layer of safety. It doesn't bother me much, I can use the stock or other mod heatshields (Or retrofit the BDB one from an earlier install). I can't wait to test those Sarnus parts, I'll try next week

[rasta013]

7 hours ago, NotAgain said:

It puts my capsules in more danger (and there's enough of that already) when re-entering, as all the heat goes straight into the pod. With separate shields, the shield takes the heat throughout, providing a safety buffer and thus, leaving the capsule as cool as a cucumber, while you could fry an egg in two seconds flat on the capsule with the integrated HS.

 

37 minutes ago, akron said:

I noticed this when I did a less than optimal re-entry from Minmus, with an angle that pushed 3200 m/s well into the atmosphere. I'll test it some more, but my preliminary findings concur that the separate HS does give an extra layer of safety. It doesn't bother me much, I can use the stock or other mod heatshields (Or retrofit the BDB one from an earlier install). I can't wait to test those Sarnus parts, I'll try next week

I had the exact same thing happen to me this morning only I exploded because of the steep re-entry.  Of course, to solve the problem all I had to do was change the angle of re-entry and do one aerobrake orbit (I had near 0 dV) and I came down fine although I did only have about 8 points of ablation left.  Point being, sure it's more dangerous but it's far from difficult and just means that it takes a change in re-entry procedure to cope.  I like it personally...

[CobaltWolf]

22 hours ago, Phineas Freak said:

@CobaltWolfa good source is the NASA Technical Reports Server (NTRS). A lot of material that the search engines sometimes do not index for some reason. Also pictures: some things might not be explicitly written (like the aforementioned S-IV operation). Other than that, searching around on the internet!

Ah, I always feel in so far over my head whenever I look around there.

19 hours ago, 123nick said:

all aerodynamic bits need too use a updated part module too be compatible with far, IIRC. im not 100% sure how to do it, but u can know it works because in the VAB when u place the part down in the context menu there should be a value called "curWingMass" or something with a slider bar too lower mass of the air part at the cost of it being more fragile.

Ok, I'll look into it. Please let me know if there are any more parts with these issues.

15 hours ago, Avalon304 said:

Last I asked, there werent plans for it, and then I stopped checking, and just used the pack.

Ah. My continual putting off / pushing back of the Saturn / Apollo parts has been a running joke around here for a while.

8 hours ago, Jso said:

Can anyone explain why this is a problem? It wouldn't surprise me that it causes issues, but I haven't observed any.

Edit: @CobaltWolf stackSymmetry = 7 in the S1 engine mount and stackSymmetry = 5 in the SIV engine mount will have the desired effect.

I don't see why this is such an issue - I've never seen people worried about it with the Tantares parts and those have always had their heatshields fused.

Thanks for the stackSymmetry tips, the Saturn configs were really thrown together at the last minute.

2 minutes ago, rasta013 said:

I had the exact same thing happen to me this morning only I exploded because of the steep re-entry.  Of course, to solve the problem all I had to do was change the angle of re-entry and do one aerobrake orbit (I had near 0 dV) and I came down fine although I did only have about 8 points of ablation left.  Point being, sure it's more dangerous but it's far from difficult and just means that it takes a change in re-entry procedure to cope.  I like it personally...

I'll look into the heating values for those parts, I think I can adjust them to make them a bit more sturdy.

Anyways, since I've finally unveiled the Saturn stuff, there are probably a lot of questions such as 'what next?'. Well, frankly, probably not muuuuch. I will bounce back and forth between Saturn and other things, bearing in mind that the Saturn C1 parts were mostly just as a surprise present and not indicative that I was moving on to the whole project. So with that said, here's some more stuff that is WIP. The S-IVB stage courtesy of @VenomousRequiem, a close up of the S-IVB Instrument Unit, and the WIP H1 engine that I've been working on but didn't feel like finishing before unveiling the C1 parts.

 

[davidy12]

S-IVB and H-1 would be EPIC

 

[Andem]

9 hours ago, Jso said:

 

Can anyone explain why this is a problem? It wouldn't surprise me that it causes issues, but I haven't observed any.

A) Because some of us like to use the stock heatshields.

B) It ruins the usabiliy of the pod to a single role, which is not how I like to play KSP.

C) It doesn't really make any sense, because you can reenter at any angle you want and still do just fine, while other times

D) You'll just explode.

[CobaltWolf]

44 minutes ago, Andem said:

A) Because some of us like to use the stock heatshields.

B) It ruins the usabiliy of the pod to a single role, which is not how I like to play KSP.

C) It doesn't really make any sense, because you can reenter at any angle you want and still do just fine, while other times

D) You'll just explode.

Well, the nodes are already aligned with the flat of the bottom of the capsule, so you can attach a stock heatshield if you want. You can remove the ablator in the VAB which makes it the same as if you didn't have the heatshield at all. So I don't understand the first two points. I'll look into fixing the second two.

EDIT: Speaking of Hermemes, it now has normal maps and a window emissive. It's textures in general got tweaked.

Edited May 16, 2016 by CobaltWolf

[CobaltWolf]

Also - I will be streaming some dev work on my Twitch channel soon, starting within the next hour.

[Starbuckminsterfullerton]

4 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

Anyways, since I've finally unveiled the Saturn stuff, there are probably a lot of questions such as 'what next?'. Well, frankly, probably not muuuuch. I will bounce back and forth between Saturn and other things, bearing in mind that the Saturn C1 parts were mostly just as a surprise present and not indicative that I was moving on to the whole project. So with that said, here's some more stuff that is WIP. The S-IVB stage courtesy of @VenomousRequiem, a close up of the S-IVB Instrument Unit, and the WIP H1 engine that I've been working on but didn't feel like finishing before unveiling the C1 parts.

 

Super excited to see Saturn parts!  What even would be next? Nova, I guess, and maybe more modern rockets like delta? Since you're doing unbuilt proposals, I've always wanted to see a direct-descent apollo, but enough about what else there is because we have SATURN!!!

Can I make a request? The Saturn family has a lot of clustered engines in it's various forms, would you make individual versions of them? I know there's not always a prototypical need, but it's not much extra modeling effort and would provide a lot of flexibility.

[akron]

@CobaltWolf is streaming right now!

[VenomousRequiem]

38 minutes ago, Starbuckminsterfullerton said:

Super excited to see Saturn parts!  What even would be next? Nova, I guess, and maybe more modern rockets like delta? Since you're doing unbuilt proposals, I've always wanted to see a direct-descent apollo, but enough about what else there is because we have SATURN!!!

Can I make a request? The Saturn family has a lot of clustered engines in it's various forms, would you make individual versions of them? I know there's not always a prototypical need, but it's not much extra modeling effort and would provide a lot of flexibility.

New here, maybe?

Nova and Delta and all that good stuff is what he's talked about least wanting to do. You'll get it, just not any time soon. You could always look on the Roadmap linked in the OP, although it doesn't really apply much as we moved Saturn I up so far, eh? I'd still go check it out.

[DiscoSlelge]

38 minutes ago, Starbuckminsterfullerton said:

Super excited to see Saturn parts!  What even would be next? Nova, I guess, and maybe more modern rockets like delta? Since you're doing unbuilt proposals, I've always wanted to see a direct-descent apollo, but enough about what else there is because we have SATURN!!!

Can I make a request? The Saturn family has a lot of clustered engines in it's various forms, would you make individual versions of them? I know there's not always a prototypical need, but it's not much extra modeling effort and would provide a lot of flexibility.

[CobaltWolf]

Bluedog Design Bureau
v0.10.5 "Krikkit!"

 

THIS UPDATE WILL BREAK SAVES FOR SOME PARTS. IF YOU WERE USING UNSTABLE PARTS SUCH AS MOS STATION SEGMENTS OR SATURN, DOWNLOAD THE SOURCE FILES INSTEAD OF THE RELEASE ZIP.

-KSP 1.1.2 Compatibility
-Updated DMagicScienceAnimate
-Added TRAILS Gemini parts.
-Added Agena docking parts.
-Added specular maps to some of the parts
-Redid all the antennas
-Added several new antennas
-Misc fixes
-Many balance tweaks
-Screw you I hate changelogs

For those that want to be even more up to date, the Saturn C1 parts and some more MOS stuff has been added to the development build!

Edited May 17, 2016 by CobaltWolf