[1.12.5] Bluedog Design Bureau - Stockalike Saturn, Apollo, and more! (v1.13.0 "Забытый" 13/Aug/2023)

[Invaderchaos]

Made some Saturn IB fin variants and the later version of the 200 series S-IVB Engine Mount:

Edited February 17, 2022 by Invaderchaos
higher res pics

[MajorLeaugeRocketScience]

4 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

We need to get a list together of what we want to include, for scope reasons if nothing else. We uh, haven't yet. Myself and Zorg are likely going to continue working on alternate Apollo/Saturn/LM/Skylab stuff. Invader has their own focus with the probes that they're also going to be working on. There's a lot of really interesting stuff we can do, so it's more a matter of figuring out priorities. Hopefully we'll be able to talk about it with some more confidence soon.

For me, the biggest thing I want is alternate Saturn/Apollo style payloads. I have all the launchers I need, but I really want some fuel depots, space stations, landers, transfer vehicles etc to launch, even if they aren’t from 100% fleshed out studies (for example, an IPP-style common station module and tug would be great as well as maybe some fictional station or transfer vehicle pieces)

[CobaltWolf]

5 minutes ago, MajorLeaugeRocketScience said:

For me, the biggest thing I want is alternate Saturn/Apollo style payloads. I have all the launchers I need, but I really want some fuel depots, space stations, landers, transfer vehicles etc to launch, even if they aren’t from 100% fleshed out studies (for example, an IPP-style common station module and tug would be great as well as maybe some fictional station or transfer vehicle pieces)

Yeah we'd be focusing on all that sort of stuff vs launchers.

[Saltshaker]

8 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

Yeah we'd be focusing on all that sort of stuff vs launchers.

extremely pog

[Starhelperdude]

would it be possible that we could get a J-2S sea level? IIRC the old stopgap HG-3 was just a slightly upscaled J-2S, same with the HG-3SL, so I think it should be possible to scale it down to normal size and then slap J-2SSLs performance on it

[Invaderchaos]

Just now, Starhelperdude said:

would it be possible that we could get a J-2S sea level? IIRC the old stopgap HG-3 was just a slightly upscaled J-2S, same with the HG-3SL, so I think it should be possible to scale it down to normal size and then slap J-2SSLs performance on it

Don't we already have a J-2 sea level?

[Starhelperdude]

Just now, Invaderchaos said:

Don't we already have a J-2 sea level?

no, only a regular J-2 sea level

it would be cool to get the J-2S for some of the saturn concepts like Saturn II

[Starhelperdude]

Prepare to JUMP out of your SEAT!

Spoiler

 

[Invaderchaos]

33 minutes ago, Starhelperdude said:

no, only a regular J-2 sea level

it would be cool to get the J-2S for some of the saturn concepts like Saturn II

ah, I misread my bad

[pTrevTrevs]

6 hours ago, Invaderchaos said:

Made some Saturn IB fin variants and the later version of the 200 series S-IVB Engine Mount:

Man those images are looking exceptionally sharp. I’ve got to ask, are you using any visual mods or a TUFX config that I might not be aware of, or do you just have your game’s resolution cranked up really high?

[Staticalliam7]

13 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

We need to get a list together of what we want to include, for scope reasons if nothing else. We uh, haven't yet. Myself and Zorg are likely going to continue working on alternate Apollo/Saturn/LM/Skylab stuff. Invader has their own focus with the probes that they're also going to be working on. There's a lot of really interesting stuff we can do, so it's more a matter of figuring out priorities. Hopefully we'll be able to talk about it with some more confidence soon.

it is so hard not to say "saturn c8" even though I know it's never happening

[Tangle]

8 minutes ago, Staticalliam7 said:

it is so hard not to say "saturn c8" even though I know it's never happening

You can do Saturn C8. Just tweakscale up the double-Delta mount and put four F-1s on each Saturn!

[Adam-Kerman]

10 hours ago, Invaderchaos said:

Made some Saturn IB fin variants and the later version of the 200 series S-IVB Engine Mount:

I see only Style A on the fins, are there supposed to be more styles and be changeable or ?

 

[Saltshaker]

1 hour ago, Staticalliam7 said:

it is so hard not to say "saturn c8" even though I know it's never happening

Even if Saturn C-8 was a good choice, BDB is only lacking in the "large crewed payloads" category (besides Apollo stack/Skylab). The team's work on historical launch vehicle families seems nearing completion.

[DaveyJ576]

16 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

We need to get a list together of what we want to include, for scope reasons if nothing else. We uh, haven't yet. Myself and Zorg are likely going to continue working on alternate Apollo/Saturn/LM/Skylab stuff. Invader has their own focus with the probes that they're also going to be working on. There's a lot of really interesting stuff we can do, so it's more a matter of figuring out priorities. Hopefully we'll be able to talk about it with some more confidence soon.

I agree with other posters that the dev team has done a fine job on boosters, rockets, probes, and manned spacecraft. Since you are asking, I think you should move in the direction of utilization, i.e. giving the mod users something to do once we get there. It would be nice if some of the AAP and AES concepts could be incorporated into the mod. Some of what I will list below has already been asked for and may be on your list, and some might be able to be kitbashed adequately, but here is my list, many of which come from this article (It should be obvious I am a big LM fan):

http://www.glenswanson.space/uploads/1/2/5/7/125738648/grummans_ambitious_spider.pdf

1. LM Taxi (including a three man option)

2. LM Shelter (I know you are working on that one)

3. LM Truck

4. MOLEM/MOLAB/MOCOM

5.  Rescue LM

6. A proper LM based ATM with a node that enables it to be attached to the SLA.

7. LASS/ALSS lunar orbit and lunar surface base

8. Alternate LMs from the evolution line: 

Spoiler

It would be nice if we could get the early '62 conical model, along with the '64 round hatch, wide leg version, and a color switch for the white '66/'67 version. The five leg round window 1962 "Bug" version is already covered by the Alternate Apollo mod. Going waaay out on a limb, there were some alternate proposals from other contractors such as Convair if you are feeling really ambitious.

9. A few months ago I kitbashed the AAP science platform, but it was pretty rough and it would be great to get a formalized version.

Spoiler

If you decide to do none of these items, no problem. BDB is still a fantastic mod. I really do appreciate all the hard work the team has done already.

Final question, with KSP 2 potentially looming in the not too distant future (fantasy I know), do you have plans to continue BDB once KSP 2 becomes the "norm"?

Edited February 17, 2022 by DaveyJ576
Small addition

[CobaltWolf]

10 minutes ago, DaveyJ576 said:

I agree with other posters that the dev team has done a fine job on boosters, rockets, probes, and manned spacecraft. Since you are asking, I think you should move in the direction of utilization, i.e. giving the mod users something to do once we get there. It would be nice if some of the AAP and AES concepts could be incorporated into the mod. Some of what I will list below has already been asked for and may be on your list, and some might be able to be kitbashed adequately, but here is my list, many of which come from this article (It should be obvious I am a big LM fan):

Final question, with KSP 2 potentially looming in the not too distant future (fantasy I know), do you have plans to continue BDB once KSP 2 becomes the "norm"?

I agree that we should focus on utilization, payloads, and stuff to do once you get somewhere. Start with your last question about KSP2 - well, like you said it's still in the future and we don't know what it will be like. But judging from what we DO know, things like surface bases, rovers, etc will be much more fleshed out in KSP2. Once we've ported the existing parts over, I'm definitely interested in expanding based on lunar/martian surface base proposals. That's a long way off however, and I'm holding off until we have more info about how those systems work, and how to create new 'parts' for them. Similarly, rovers in KSP 1 suuuuuuck to make parts for, so I'm holding off on those for now - but we have a bunch of different rover designs we can attempt in KSP2.

So, broadly speaking, I think our (my) content for the rest of KSP1 will follow these lines:

• Things that are suitable for KSP1 - landers, small surface habs, things like that. Nothing that needs new gameplay systems to work (as compared to full bases, which I'd want to try and implement via KSP2's colony system maybe?). So stuff that only adds relatively basic missions, like the I-class CSMs with the KH7 camera, those would be good for KSP1.
• Focus on having the groundwork laid for KSP2 - things like interplanetary transfer vehicles, orbital tugs, upgraded LMs that could serve as scouting/survey missions. I could see us taking elements from IPP but I'm not really interested in doing the entire thing. You might think of that stuff as like... IPP, but in an Apollo/Saturn centric timeline. My point is, we'd like to flesh out the parts you'd use to get to the point of developing early permanent lunar/martian bases. These are things that ARE doable in KSP1.
• Focus on CSM/LM follow-on stuff - I'd like to keep expanding and developing these part sets, rather than adding new families. So if something is CSM but with X, cool. Something like the Advanced Crew Vehicle from ETS, which shares little to nothing with the CSM and would essentially be another purpose built part family, is kind of a non-starter for me. I will say, I have very little CSM stuff left to make, based on the documents I have. It was relatively static, compared to the proposals for the Saturns and LM.
• Making sure that models/assets are up to snuff. Things like the current Atlas parts need a large pass and wouldn't be worth porting as-is. Getting those out of the way will be a big help.

As of right now, we don't have much info on what will be required for porting to KSP2. There's going to be a lot of stuff missing - certainly no B9PS at release - so we'll have to play things by ear. It probably won't be for like, a year after KSP2 comes out (at minimum) before BDB, as it exists now, is fully ported. At least I'll have a head start on being the definitive USA part mod

 

10 minutes ago, DaveyJ576 said:

1. LM Taxi (including a three man option)

2. LM Shelter (I know you are working on that one)

3. LM Truck

4. MOLEM/MOLAB/MOCOM

5.  Rescue LM

6. A proper LM based ATM with a node that enables it to be attached to the SLA.

7. LASS/ALSS lunar orbit and lunar surface base

8. Alternate LMs from the evolution line: 

  Reveal hidden contents

It would be nice if we could get the early '62 conical model, along with the '64 round hatch, wide leg version, and a color switch for the white '66/'67 version. The five leg round window 1962 "Bug" version is already covered by the Alternate Apollo mod. Going waaay out on a limb, there were some alternate proposals from other contractors such as Convair if you are feeling really ambitious.

9. A few months ago I kitbashed the AAP science platform, but it was pretty rough and it would be great to get a formalized version.

  Reveal hidden contents

If you decide to do none of these items, no problem. BDB is still a fantastic mod. I really do appreciate all the hard work the team has done already.

Responding to these more specifically:

1), 2), 3) LM Taxi, Shelter, Truck, and Lab are priorities for the next update. I definitely want to put them in.

4) See above, I'd like to hold off on making rovers until KSP2, since the implementation of wheels hopefully won't be... badS but without the bad if you know what I mean. I really hope you can have stupidly flexible suspension and proper traction like in the trailer.

5) I'm actually not sure what you mean?

6) Yes, we're looking into it. I know Zorg has plans, and the LM-Lab might also include a 'short' descent module that more just acts as an experiment mounting truss.

7) Some amount of LASS/ALSS will probably make it in, but again, I might hold off in hopes that I can make a much more interesting and fleshed out experience in KSP2.

8) So, I always was interested in doing those? But the problem you run into - and this goes for a lot of early proposal type stuff - they're just not that detailed. if you took the 1962 model and "finished" designing it, it wouldn't look the same. That's my hang up with that sort of work, doing the early conceptual stuff like that. The Alternate Apollo LM is great, but you can see what I mean - it's not nearly as detailed as our LM. I'm not knocking mcdouble, I'm saying he put in basically all the detail that was available on that OG LM.

9) We were discussing this in the dev chat the other day. It's a possibility; it got pretty far along and there's some good documentation.

 

 

Finishing off by listing out some stuff I know we're seriously looking into:

• As stated, the AAP LM variants.
• Zorg's looking to expand the nuclear engine stable, maybe including a BDB NERVA (finally!)
• "Orbital Launch" concepts - basically, docking a payload and 1-3 S-IVBs in orbit and then doing a departure burn. This would include aft-to-nose docking for S-IVBs.
• Some way of controlling or eliminating boiloff, probably at the cost of EC.
• Zorg has a number of Skylab-adjacent things to look into, like EOSS and I can't remember what else.
• Revamp of the cylindrical Big G service module.
• I was thinking about making something like the Orbiting Primate Spacecraft, but re-imagining it as maybe like, a long term Mystery Goo research facility? (I'm don't like actually depicting animals in KSP, it feels like it darkens the tone a bit too much. The Goo, with it's gregarious personality and possible... alive-ness, is usually used as a substitute, since it doesn't seem to mind)

[septemberWaves]

Is there a guide yet for historical layouts of the new Apollo service module, and one for the new Skylab?

[Friznit]

11 minutes ago, septemberWaves said:

Is there a guide yet for historical layouts of the new Apollo service module, and one for the new Skylab?

https://github.com/friznit/Unofficial-BDB-Wiki/issues/60

  

1 hour ago, CobaltWolf said:

I agree that we should focus on utilization, payloads, and stuff to do once you get somewhere.

SEP

Edited February 17, 2022 by Friznit

[Reimu Hakurei]

20 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

We need to get a list together of what we want to include, for scope reasons if nothing else. We uh, haven't yet. Myself and Zorg are likely going to continue working on alternate Apollo/Saturn/LM/Skylab stuff. Invader has their own focus with the probes that they're also going to be working on. There's a lot of really interesting stuff we can do, so it's more a matter of figuring out priorities. Hopefully we'll be able to talk about it with some more confidence soon.

Take this opportunity to lobby again for the LRV's foldable part to match the LM descent stage for the J-series mission

[Starhelperdude]

6 minutes ago, Reimu Hakurei said:

Take this opportunity to lobby again for the LRV's foldable part to match the LM descent stage for the J-series mission

this doesn't look fun to make

[Saltshaker]

9 minutes ago, Reimu Hakurei said:

Take this opportunity to lobby again for the LRV's foldable part to match the LM descent stage for the J-series mission

3 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

[...] Similarly, rovers in KSP 1 suuuuuuck to make parts for, so I'm holding off on those for now - but we have a bunch of different rover designs we can attempt in KSP2.

[...] 4) See above, I'd like to hold off on making rovers until KSP2, since the implementation of wheels hopefully won't be... badS but without the bad if you know what I mean. I really hope you can have stupidly flexible suspension and proper traction like in the trailer.

 

[TaintedLion]

7 hours ago, Adam-Kerman said:

I see only Style A on the fins, are there supposed to be more styles and be changeable or ?

 

I'm getting this too.

[davidy12]

1 hour ago, Starhelperdude said:

this doesn't look fun to make

Could just ask @pTrevTrevsfor his version.

 

[Invaderchaos]

2 hours ago, TaintedLion said:

I'm getting this too.

9 hours ago, Adam-Kerman said:

I see only Style A on the fins, are there supposed to be more styles and be changeable or ?

 

Apologies, forgot a bracket in the cfg. Made a fix to the SIB Fin (and a couple other cfg fixes to the Saturn I parts while I was at it). Should be good now

[DaveyJ576]

@CobaltWolf, Thank you so much for the very detailed answer. I appreciate it. No issues with anything you said. I have been tinkering with my own design for a LRV and I kind of understand what a pain they must be to work on. Combine all that with robotics for the deployment sequence and you get yourself a complicated situation.

The Rescue LM that I referenced above is pictured in that document that I linked. Essentially, it is a LM without the legs, configured as an orbital maneuvering tug but with a scissor type arm for grabbing wayward astronauts. Looks like a cool concept and would be a nice addition to a Skylab style station. It would also be useful for construction. The concept kind of reminds me of the Von Braun "Bottle Suit" from the Disney film "Man and the Moon".

I fully understand your reluctance to dive into the LM evolution vehicles, as they would be difficult to bring up to BDB standards without losing what they were in the first place. I have been toying around with the Alternate Apollo Bug and added some BDB greebles to it to jazz it up a bit. It looks better, but I get how the design will drift as you add stuff and new textures. Anything that you decide to do in this regard will be appreciated, but don't let it distract you from the other items. A nice to have for sure, but low in priority.

Thanks again and keep up your amazing work. KSP is so much more immersive with mods like this.