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[1.12.3] Bluedog Design Bureau - Stockalike Saturn, Apollo, and more! (v1.10.4 "Луна" 19/July/2022)


CobaltWolf
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Well, my D&D group's plans for an epic 5-6 hour finale session just got torpedoed by one of the group waiting until this morning to say he had a family event and "could only play for an hour"... well, guess there's no point crying over spilled milk. I'll get to explore my character's traumas next week. In the meantime, how about a Titan 2 dev stream? :)

Edited by CobaltWolf
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I've made a dedicated test stand for use with part failure mods like BARIS that require R&D to be done; right now the small version is done and on my Github AlphaDev branch (a large version will come later). Has two configurations, a horizontal cradle and a vertical tower.  The tower configuration can accomodate a 3.75m tank:

F-1 engine static fire:

MhE00IL.png

 

S-IB stage static fire:

e1IeCrR.png

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Alright, some work from this weekend... Titan 2 is nearing completion, and then I can finish the LR-87 and LR-91 so that I know how much texture space I have to work with. I already starting some of the alternate shrouds, see below... :)

 

Titan 2 - GLV (Default) Texture

Jfyyxbr.png

Titan 2 - Rough preview of a possible "White/Black" texture variant

ofZRPvG.png

Titan 2 - Rough preview of a possible "23G" texture variant

MlwuutM.png

Titan 2 - Rough preview of a possible "Titan 3" texture variant

56jcUUa.png

Closeup of the redone upper stage. Note the fueling ports that are cut into the geometry, ignore the areas that could be better especially the autoshroud.

OqG4y9b.png

Bottom view of the second stage, also very WIP.

RoyQKKe.png

The four shroud variants that all three primary LR-87 variants will have - the shrouds will also hopefully have similar levels of texture switching. Bare, Titan 1, Titan 2, Titan 3/4.

jgBw7Ha.png

Closeup of the Titan 3/4 style engine shroud, obviously very WIP. Will have connection points for the radial SRB struts in the same way that the recent solid boosters (GEMs and AJ60s) to aid in alignment.

YnqI33N.png

 

 

Edited by CobaltWolf
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Models look cool!

 

Why did they have a shroud on the Titan 1 anyway? It seems it was not required for the '2' series, but it makes sense on the SRB types for some protection from, well, the SRB. (Right?)

 

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8 hours ago, komodo said:

Why did they have a shroud on the Titan 1 anyway? It seems it was not required for the '2' series, but it makes sense on the SRB types for some protection from, well, the SRB. (Right?)

I'm not sure, the best guess I can make is they were to try and prevent base heating from hot air recirculating. Back then they had very little understanding of how base heating works and what drives/prevents it, so they tried a lot of stuff. The Titan 2 still had air scoops, stuff like the Saturn V S-II had a big heat shield between the engines, etc.

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3 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

I'm not sure, the best guess I can make is they were to try and prevent base heating from hot air recirculating. Back then they had very little understanding of how base heating works and what drives/prevents it, so they tried a lot of stuff. The Titan 2 still had air scoops, stuff like the Saturn V S-II had a big heat shield between the engines, etc.

I would add that the Titan I was not cold launched, Nor was it fully fueled until launch.  The shroud could easily have been thermal protection against a LOX spill during fueling for all we know.  The upper engine area IS ceramic and cold /= good with most 1950s era ceramics. That being said, it could also be a re-enforcement for the bottom of the tank/engine joint area.    

 

A last (and in my opinion MOST LIKELY) is that the bottom skirt is part of the Elevator that lifted Titan I out of the silo to fuel and launch.   The rocket had to stay vertical above ground in the plain states (very windy) while taking on Fuel prior to launch.    There are no towers so extra re-enforcement in the first stage is kind of the obvious alternative. 

This last is the BIG reason that Titan II was Hypergolic (the fuels are "mostly" storable and the Rocket can launch right out of the Silo without a bunch of pomp and circumstance..)

 

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Hi CobaltWolf,

 

Love this mod. I keep coming back to it time & again.

I've just noticed a slight hiccup. The LEO (sweet little capsule BTW) IVA & Cutaway is  rotated 180 degrees from the externals.

EG: When facing the mun with the windshield/porthole? the IVA shows the sky.

Anyway, time to boot up and continue my adventures :)

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1 hour ago, T.A.P.O.R. said:

I've just noticed a slight hiccup. The LEO (sweet little capsule BTW) IVA & Cutaway is  rotated 180 degrees from the externals.

EG: When facing the mun with the windshield/porthole? the IVA shows the sky.

I'm not seeing that.

0wFYS2Z.png

IeQptn1.png

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9 hours ago, T.A.P.O.R. said:

the Leo Lander Can.

 

6 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

Shoot, Jso remember how we rotated the model? Can we rotate an IVA in a cfg?

I'm not sure. We had to do the same rotation to the LEM Ascent Cockpit. But that IVA may have been made after that was done.

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So I have been studying the Pictures posted from this weekends Dev stream.   I really REALLY like what I am seeing.   both the 23G and Titan III textures sing and they are not even done.   I am not certain I like the all white myself but I know that is a personal preference.  I know there is a lot of work to do on both of those all metal schemes, and I do hope you can bring out the real life nature of all the different types of metals used in Titan over the years.  The skin on Titan III tanks being a different alloy to reduce costs causes the goldish tinge while the Titan 23G is a built as a Ballistic Missile Titan II and needed the ability to stay fueled with it's caustic propellants for long term (thus more expensive tanks with a more uniform color.

 

@CobaltWolf

I did PARTIALLY confirm that the Titan I's first stage skirt is in fact part of the Elevator that lifted the Rocket out of the Silo so it could be fueled and fired.  It is called the "Launch Pad Thrust Ring" per Wikipedia and 3 other sources.   One source states that if it had been left behind on the Silo/elevator pad, the Titan 1 First stage tank would have had to weigh 3x more than it would with the ring attached (extra ribs, thicker skins whatever it does not say.)   It is not an Aerodynamic-enhancement structure and in fact only provides extra strength to the first stage.  

 

    I have some anecdotal information about the scoops on the various LR-87s as well.   It appears that several engineers thought he 90 degree end on many of these rockets would cause an airflow vacuum around the engine and reduce radiative cooling.   The scoops were added to enhance engine cooling.   They were removed early on Titan I because the Thrust ring removed the need for them, but they remained on early Titan II engines which included GLV Titan II as they were built before the full production USAF model.

 

 

Edited by Pappystein
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16 minutes ago, Jso said:

 

I'm not sure. We had to do the same rotation to the LEM Ascent Cockpit. But that IVA may have been made after that was done.

I know you can offset an IVA using an offset inside the INTERNAL node, maaaaaaybe the rotate command (used for models) also works. I used the offset command a while back for a MIR module

INTERNAL
{
	name = MIR_core
	offset = 0.0, 0.0, 5.0
}

 

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Minor thing, but please could you add UniversalStorage2 (or just a * I suppose) to NEEDS[UniversalStorage] in US compatability cfg?  I've tested US2 wedges in the Kane Blk2 and it mostly fits just fine.  Only the water tank clips ever so slightly into the sliding panels but that can be tweaked into behaving itself properly with judicous use of the pointy arrows tool.

Edit:  just seen the commit from Dec that tweaks the nodes slightly for US2, but for me the wedge brackets didn't show up until I edited the cfg to add a 2 in...

Edited by Friznit
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7 minutes ago, Zorg said:

I lean more. I guess if you add a subtle detail like that you would still want it to be visible at a slight distance rather than only right close up.

I'm leaning that way as well. This upper stage is still missing so much, mostly better shading...

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18 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

I'm leaning that way as well. This upper stage is still missing so much, mostly better shading...

I agree. It's hard to find a good image of just the second stage, but right now it feels like yours is too clean in a way. (Also, definitely more obvious rivets)

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