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[1.12.5] Bluedog Design Bureau - Stockalike Saturn, Apollo, and more! (v1.13.0 "Забытый" 13/Aug/2023)


CobaltWolf

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15 hours ago, awsumindyman said:

Uh...what exactly did you find?

12 hours ago, legoclone09 said:

where

Well, I was up until around 2 last night, and I couldn't iron out some issues I was having due to a somewhat unique engine configuration. Since I have to leave for the weekend now, I'll have to finish it some time this coming week, before taking a break from BDB to work on some other projects (little burnt out on Apollo stuff, taking care of some other KSP-related obligations).

Some hints:

  • It's a new complete rocket stage, with engines, tankage, avionics etc...
  • It's very old....
  • It's something nobody (except for 1 close friend) asked for...
  • The logo printed on the engine bell is a hint...
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16 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

Well, I was up until around 2 last night, and I couldn't iron out some issues I was having due to a somewhat unique engine configuration. Since I have to leave for the weekend now, I'll have to finish it some time this coming week, before taking a break from BDB to work on some other projects (little burnt out on Apollo stuff, taking care of some other KSP-related obligations).

Some hints:

  • It's a new complete rocket stage, with engines, tankage, avionics etc...
  • It's very old....
  • It's something nobody (except for 1 close friend) asked for...
  • The logo printed on the engine bell is a hint...

I'm looking at the history of rockets and I can't find anything that hasn't been done. V2, R7, Redstone, etc.

Oh well, I can wait!

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49 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

Well, I was up until around 2 last night, and I couldn't iron out some issues I was having due to a somewhat unique engine configuration. Since I have to leave for the weekend now, I'll have to finish it some time this coming week, before taking a break from BDB to work on some other projects (little burnt out on Apollo stuff, taking care of some other KSP-related obligations).

Some hints:

  • It's a new complete rocket stage, with engines, tankage, avionics etc...
  • It's very old....
  • It's something nobody (except for 1 close friend) asked for...
  • The logo printed on the engine bell is a hint...

Is it sounding rocket related?

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1 hour ago, CobaltWolf said:

Well, I was up until around 2 last night, and I couldn't iron out some issues I was having due to a somewhat unique engine configuration. Since I have to leave for the weekend now, I'll have to finish it some time this coming week, before taking a break from BDB to work on some other projects (little burnt out on Apollo stuff, taking care of some other KSP-related obligations).

Some hints:

  • It's a new complete rocket stage, with engines, tankage, avionics etc...
  • It's very old....
  • It's something nobody (except for 1 close friend) asked for...
  • The logo printed on the engine bell is a hint...

Is it the [redacted] upper stage for the [redacted] light/medium launcher?

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16 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

~Update~

Look-y what I found...

x32chgN.png

Hrmmmm.... Wonder what it could be for?

1 hour ago, CobaltWolf said:

Some hints:

  • It's a new complete rocket stage, with engines, tankage, avionics etc...
  • It's very old....
  • It's something nobody (except for 1 close friend) asked for...
  • The logo printed on the engine bell is a hint...

Is it the Vega Upper stage.for the Atlas?

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59 minutes ago, Jay The Amazing Toaster said:

Is it the Vega Upper stage.for the Atlas?

Ding ding ding ding! Vega is a really cool stage that I've been wanting to do for a long time... I made sure that it would be compatible with Centaur parts, so you can 'swap' the parts with their equivalent Centaur parts (ie, switch the Vega avionics with Centaur Avionics, etc) and everything still fits together. It uses the Centaur interstages.

For those that don't know the interesting little story behind it, in the late 50s when NASA was formed, they settled on Atlas as being their main 'medium' lifter (since some version of Saturn was still planned for larger human spaceflight) for the foreseeable future. They proposed two upper stages, both using the balloon tank construction technique. One, Centaur, would be an advanced hydrolox upper stage that would take as much as a decade to become available. For the interim, NASA planned on using a upper stage made by GE and Convair, called Vega. It used kerolox for fuel, and the engine was a vacuum modified version of the GE Vanguard first stage engine. This would be used until the Centaur was ready. It was the last US Kerolox upper stage development effort until SpaceX came around.

In real life, the Air Force decided to share their Agena stage with NASA, the D variant of which had somewhat similar performance (at least to LEO...) as the Atlas/Vega. NASA cancelled Vega, and moved the development money into the Centaur project. Of course, with BDB, you're not limited to 'what actually happened'. :wink: With Vega as an LV, the early planetary missions would have gone very differently. It was a fair bit more capable for payloads going to the Moon or out of Earth SOI, but remember they would have had to pay to develop it. That would either cut into other budgets, or delayed Centaur significantly. With Centaur delays possibly affecting Saturn... But what if things like the Ranger series were more successful, as well as less limited in terms of size...

Vega adds 4 parts - engine, engine mount, avionics, and the main tankage. I didn't take many screenshots of it last night, I was stuggling to get the engine effects working. I think I'll just take an evening to finish polishing everything before I start posting more about it. :wink:

Atlas-Vega.jpg

More info here and here.

Edited by CobaltWolf
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Since Kopernicus has been updated I've been testing out Saturn and Titan rockets in 3.2x and 2x solar systems. The Saturn 1B and Titan II GLV both come in around 5000 m/s delta v. The problem is that this won't reach orbit in a 3.2x system rescale because of the increase in delta v required. The rescale puts the requirement at 5724 m/s, leaving both launch vehicles short of the goal. The x2 scale works for them, although both are squeakers at 4525 m/s. I did end up restoring the Saturn 1B to pre-lessening fuel amounts to have it top out at 5000 m/s.

I don't think this is a bug, just the way things are balanced.

Spoiler

Using KSP Delta-V maps show that an 80km LKO altitude needs 3400 m/s dv.

Caculating an increase in dv by multiplying the base by the square root of the rescale 

LKO (80km)  x1 Scale 3200 m/s dv
LKO (80km)  x2 Scale 4525 m/s dv
LKO (80km)  x3.2 Scale 5724 m/s dv

 

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Not sure if there is information on this somewhere, but I could not find any.

I can't get the docking ports (all of them, Kane, CADS, and MOS-DM) to merge vessels, meaning I can't transfer crew/fuel, I can't timewarp etc. I can get the docking ports locked (Status: Locked, and physically and visually stuck), but they never join the vessels.  Any help?

 

Also, love the parts, they look fantastic.

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2 hours ago, Immabed said:

Not sure if there is information on this somewhere, but I could not find any.

I can't get the docking ports (all of them, Kane, CADS, and MOS-DM) to merge vessels, meaning I can't transfer crew/fuel, I can't timewarp etc. I can get the docking ports locked (Status: Locked, and physically and visually stuck), but they never join the vessels.  Any help?

 

Also, love the parts, they look fantastic.

Many of the docking ports in BDB have a feature called two stage docking. The first stage is a soft docking, bringing the ports into contact but without locking on. The second is a hard dock where the two vessels merge. This in done in game by having the docking ports have animated parts with colliders that extend out in front of them. To perform a two stage docking first preform a soft docking as you would any other docking maneuver, then once you have made contact, right click the docking port and there should be a retract option. Keep in mind that in the case of the MOS docking port, both ports will need to be retracted for a hard dock. It is also worth noting that you can per-retract the docking ports in the VAB, if you do so they will function like any other docking port.

P.S. A neat side effect is that once you have a soft dock, you should be able to rotate your spacecraft freely, giving the ability to precisely align craft before making hard dock.

Edited by Foxxonius Augustus
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2 hours ago, Pkmniako said:

All gemini parts in the 0.11 update had their internal names changed. Could you post the list of names before and after so we can update the savefiles?

All real names parts are detailed in the apendix A of the manual, you can download it on the first page :P

Edited by DiscoSlelge
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2 hours ago, DiscoSlelge said:

All real names parts are detailed in the apendix A of the manual, you can download it on the first page :P

That is not what he is saying. He is talking about a change of partnames.

 

5 hours ago, Pkmniako said:

All gemini parts in the 0.11 update had their internal names changed. Could you post the list of names before and after so we can update the savefiles?

Seeing as this happened fairly long ago, your best bet is to download the old version and the new version (whatever those may be for you) from the spacedock changelog and compare.

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21 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

(since some version of Saturn was still planned for larger human spaceflight)

Ooh, I can help with this! The Saturn V, in the 50s/60s, had a planned larger version that (I believe) was to be called the Saturn S-N. It used NERVA nuclear thermal engines on either the first and second stages or just on the second (or some other variation - not quite sure). There were other variants planned as well, but the NERVA was an extremely good, very efficient engine, and this rocket would have been extremely capable. However, the NERVA program was cancelled due to lowered NASA funding, just like pretty much every other new, amazing form of propulsion. Whenever I read about these things, I get really hopeful for the future, and then I see that the program was cancelled and get sad. It really is a shame. Luckily, though, we don't have to worry about KSP programs being cancelled. Looking forwards to getting the Vega stage in KSP :)

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7 hours ago, Foxxonius Augustus said:

Many of the docking ports in BDB have a feature called two stage docking. The first stage is a soft docking, bringing the ports into contact but without locking on. The second is a hard dock where the two vessels merge. This in done in game by having the docking ports have animated parts with colliders that extend out in front of them. To perform a two stage docking first preform a soft docking as you would any other docking maneuver, then once you have made contact, right click the docking port and there should be a retract option. Keep in mind that in the case of the MOS docking port, both ports will need to be retracted for a hard dock. It is also worth noting that you can per-retract the docking ports in the VAB, if you do so they will function like any other docking port.

P.S. A neat side effect is that once you have a soft dock, you should be able to rotate your spacecraft freely, giving the ability to precisely align craft before making hard dock.

I can't even get a soft dock. The probe is extended and when I retract it nothing happens

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Behold the Muo V 451!!!

Spoiler

MoIGUH4.png

2FY57cY.png

T25cKPi.png

I used tweakscale to scale up the Dioscuri boosters to 0.938, then attached them accordingly to the main booster. Not exact, but they work quite well.  I also used 4 of the fenris trapezoidal fins around the base and some stock verniers for a little extra stability.

Edited by DJ Reonic
Forgot stuff
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2 hours ago, munlander1 said:

I can't even get a soft dock. The probe is extended and when I retract it nothing happens

Which docking ports are you using? You may need run the retract animation on both docking ports and since your vessels are not merged you will have to switch to the other craft and do it from there, you do do that quickly with the bracket keys [ and ].

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1 hour ago, Foxxonius Augustus said:

Which docking ports are you using? You may need run the retract animation on both docking ports and since your vessels are not merged you will have to switch to the other craft and do it from there, you do do that quickly with the bracket keys [ and ].

I never knew about the brackets thanks for that. But I am using the the Apollo docking ports and i have the probe extended.

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8 minutes ago, munlander1 said:

I never knew about the brackets thanks for that. But I am using the the Apollo docking ports and i have the probe extended.

If the probe is extended, it will prevent hard docking. You have to retract the probe in order to hard dock (craft merge).

@DiscoSlelge @CobaltWolf With all the new people using the mod who haven't been following it through dev, perhaps the docking procedure for each set of docking ports should be added to the manual.

Edited by Foxxonius Augustus
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