[1.12.5] Bluedog Design Bureau - Stockalike Saturn, Apollo, and more! (v1.13.0 "Забытый" 13/Aug/2023)

[Pappystein]

22 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

From Ed Kyle's Space Launch Report:

It is too bad Ed didn't cover the re-use of the Vega design to make Gamma .      I realize the improved version of the GE 405H2 engine in BDB is a you hypothetical and not a real world proposed engine  Cobalt, but still it is neat to have a viable "upgrade path" for Vega.

 

Please note that this isn't the Centaur Jr that was proposed as part of the USAF/General Dynamics (AKA Convair) Atlas F stretch+ Centaur Jr proposal as listed on Ed Kyle's site.  This is a latter proposal to re-use existing parts instead of making all new ones for Centaur JR.      This version was basically slapped together by Convair so they could re-use the design work they had put into Vega to allow for an improved Centaur launcher (by making Centaur dual staged.)

[Pappystein]

1 hour ago, Invaderchaos said:

Additionally, if anyone has any obscure proposals for further applications of Mariner hardware (not including Viking, we’re not gonna do that), let me know and I’ll see what I can do as I’ve always been a fan of unflown proposals for probes.

Can of worms time:

Since I have been discussing the Gamma,   one of the proposals that "SEEMS" to use Gamma was a Saturn IB launch vehicle with the following stages   S-IB, S-IVB, S-V (Centaur C/E) and S-VI (Gamma? small 7000lb thrust Hydrolox upper stage)   The Solar Probe (large)  un-named.
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=22633.0;attach=244588;sess=0

a Smaller version that may not need the Gamma but a different upper stage called Poodle... that seems to be a generic "substitute" stage...   called Icarus looks like a Fedora Hat (where the brim is out flat and not folded) and has a single boom that is flown extended (does not retract) with a Magnometer, RWR, and Communications all in one part.  

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=22633.0;attach=306570;sess=0

 

To be effective both of these needed higher than normal velocities.   As you can see by looking at the "actual hardware" Icarus it uses a STAR 37 THEN a F4W Solid on top of the Atlas Centaur or Saturn Centaur stage!

Icarus would be a neat "easy" probe...   How hard is it to make a circular cake like probe body with a fringe Solar array that grants 360 degree solar coverage eh?  asks someone who isn't going to make it

The bigger Solar probe might be something useful to hold back until new Saturn parts are ready to launch it....   It looks like it will need an inter-stage similar to that of the Titan Agena inter-stage... with it's antenna folded into the inter-stage opening.  

Please note that the reasons these probes were never launched was due to cost.   The Bigger probe would have a science experiment called "Solar Flare diagnostic"   only works in orbit of a sun...   High and low orbit options.  little science for high orbit but low orbit gets big science.

*from my admittedly limited research Poodle was a generic stage description for a needed but never developed or contracted 7000lb thrust Hydrolox stage... something Gamma and Centaur JR both fit into.  Poodle had a set envelope of 3.05x5.78m aka 10ft by 19ft which both Centaur JR and Gamma fit within.)

**It dawned on me that Icarus could be kitbashed with what we already have...  The Agena GCU + Agena Target Battery + the Solar Shield/array....

***CRAP EDIT...  sorry @Invaderchaos I wasn't wearing my glasses when I first wrote this up...   not mariner stuff so ignore if you want.  But cool never flown Saturn Era probes I have given you...  

Edited December 17, 2020 by Pappystein

[CobaltWolf]

1 hour ago, Pappystein said:

a Smaller version that may not need the Gamma but a different upper stage called Poodle... that seems to be a generic "substitute" stage...  

[Pappystein]

22 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

Yeah that is what I said! 
 

Then I did a google Search for
"Poodle rocket stage" - Kerbal -KerbalAcademy -Kerbalspaceprogram -dog and then just found THIS:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioisotope_rocket

Poodle is a TRW upper-stage using a RTG to heat a gas (assuming Hydrogen) and even today, RTG powered thrusters are called "Poodle thrusters"     An RTG big enough to produce 7000lbs of thurst however would be pretty huge...   I don't know how effective the 19x10ft poodle stage would actually be as a kick stages as it is being described (IE high thrust to weight ratio and designed for shorter intense burns not long slow ones like Centaur)

 

Also, using the basic concept of the Vega there are apparently a series of 4 "Kick stages"  proposed by Convair/GD...   Gamma being the Hydrolox version with an RL10 engine.   One has a FLOX engine... ewe... one has a LMDE engine and could be a good stage to add as part of the Saturn update...   And the last is a KEROLOX stage with a new engine (AKA a Vega reboot)

I found most of these while researching Gamma today and still digging in pretty hard core.   Once I colate and verify my info I will share it.

 

For what it is worth, the first link in my "Solar probe" post just above has a side view of what Poodle would look like.

 

 

Edited December 17, 2020 by Pappystein

[computercat04]

Since there's an update to KSP, there might be some bugs in the mod. Keep that in mind, @CobaltWolf.

[CobaltWolf]

17 minutes ago, computercat04 said:

Since there's an update to KSP, there might be some bugs in the mod. Keep that in mind, @CobaltWolf.

*plugs ears*

 

(in all seriousness, I have been working 60+ hours a week for my real job the last 2-3 weeks and will continue to be so for a bit longer. I'm sure the other devs are keeping busy though...)

[Pappystein]

2 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

(in all seriousness, I have been working 60+ hours a week for my real job the last 2-3 weeks and will continue to be so for a bit longer. I'm sure the other devs are keeping busy though...)

Know how that feels.  Hopefully things wrap up for you soon so you can take a break before getting into Saturn further

 

[OrbitalManeuvers]

Now that we've covered Vejur/Vega, can someone talk about Herakles next?

[Pappystein]

27 minutes ago, OrbitalManeuvers said:

Now that we've covered Vejur/Vega, can someone talk about Herakles next?

the floor is open for you?

Herakles as in Titan LDC.  As in the single sized kitbash by Cobaltwolf of like 8 different Titan Proposals over the years?   Given there are so many DIFFERENT "Titan LDC" proposals... it is hard to drill down and just talk about the components in the mod.  

To be clear when Ed Kyle talks about "4x LR87-AJ11" engines he is talking about 2x 2 bell engines... so only 2 of what we have in KSP.
Also these (which are about the right size for our 3.125m KSP LDC Titan.....) are actually one of the SMALLER LDC core designs!

 

 

The Barbarian would have been slightly larger than the other LDC proposals I can easily present here.     In KSP scale it would have been slightly larger than 3.25m.   The other LDCs are slightly smaller at 2.93m.   As I remember @CobaltWolf chose to average the two to go with a "standard" 3.125m size.   Note that the LDC engine mount in 4x and above sizes  is a little tight for the LR87s because of this shrinkage.

 

And while Ed Kyle didn't cover it, and BDB didn't build it, there was a ~13ft diameter proposal as well it BARELY fit 2x LR87-AJ-11s under it.   That would have been a 2.5m Titan core stage.  In this case it was designed to be Air Transportable in "a standard" USAF Cargo Aircraft....   Looking at the size of the mockup on it's trailer the only Aircraft in USAF inventory that Could have flown it was the C-5 Galaxy.   I don't even think the Mighty Mouse (C-17) could fly that stage.

 

That is all I have got on short notice

 

*EDIT* Maybe at some point we will get the Agena like interstage for Centaur D1T for the LDCs.....   wish wish wish

Edited December 18, 2020 by Pappystein

[OrbitalManeuvers]

2 hours ago, Pappystein said:

That is all I have got on short notice

Thank you! I wasn't even sure what family it was coming from, so this was quite helpful. I guess the vented interstage should have been a clue.

[Pappystein]

19 hours ago, OrbitalManeuvers said:

Thank you! I wasn't even sure what family it was coming from, so this was quite helpful. I guess the vented interstage should have been a clue.

I don't know why I started monologing about how I come up with that data.   Fact of the matter is it wasn't germane to the discussion (and is thus deleted.)

However, there are a few websites you can use to look a lot of this stuff up.

Ed Kyle hosts the SpaceLaunchReport website and has a large selection of rocket data... Not exhaustive, not complete and heavily cherry-picked for data but still arguably one of the most accurate Rocket data websites we can find on common-ish rockets:

http://www.spacelaunchreport.com/library.html

Obviously Wikipedia isn't that trust worthy (check the sources after reading ANY article on rocketry folks!  lots of errors creep in.)

http://en.wikipedia.org

And the most pervasive.... and arguably least accurate Encyclopedia Astronautica:

http://astronautix.com/

 

Each and all of these sites attempt to distill down raw data... And I have listed them in my opinon of order of quality and  accuracy.   Conversely it is a REVERSE order for qty of DATA available.   These are the sites I look at first when a question like yours is posted OrbitalManeuvers...   I then look for more "accurate" or hard core data documents to support their info...

There are many other such websites.... and there are also sites that have original documentation (NASA's now much harder to use NRTS server.... the Big Book of Warfare etc...)   But the OG docs can be hard to read... esp if they are a bad copy (and there are a lot of those!)

 

And lets not forget Google can be your friend when searching for obscure Rockets... (eg my search for the Poodle Rocket stage -dog -KSP -Kerbal -Kerbalspaceprogram -KerbalAcadamy )

And a special mention for Designation-Systems.net which has been my number 1 source on US missiles for close to 20 years:

http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/index.html

Just please please ignore the very bad reference that cites me on the AIM-152 as calling it an AIM-155   Oh wait it looks like Dr Gustin finally pulled down his old site!   NEVER-MIND nothing to see here!

 

 

 

 

Edited December 18, 2020 by Pappystein

[Friznit]

22 minutes ago, Pappystein said:

I don't know why I started monologing about how I come up with that data.   Fact of the matter is it wasn't germane to the discussion (and is thus deleted.)

However, there are a few websites you can use to look a lot of this stuff up.

But you missed the single source of truth about all things BDB!  The one and only, officially unofficial BDB wiki!! 100% internet accuracy!  Vaguely.  Ish.  A little bit.

Actually the BDB unofficial wiki draws from all these sources and more, boiled down into something accessible and then tweaked with a little artistic license given its intended purpose as a guide to build all these rockets with BDB parts.  Come to think of it, it would be a nice idea to list some of these sources on there for those who are interested in exploring further.

 

[Pappystein]

36 minutes ago, Friznit said:

But you missed the single source of truth about all things BDB!  The one and only, officially unofficial BDB wiki!! 100% internet accuracy!  Vaguely.  Ish.  A little bit.

True, I did.  

 But, the reason was I was showing sources I go to to find out info on rockets I don't know about, rather than how to build a BDB rocket  

oh, and PS.  Don't bring my Great Grandma Ish into these discussions

 

BESIDES,   Isn't it about time you removed the "Un" from the BDB Wiki's name?

 

Edited December 18, 2020 by Pappystein

[Friznit]

1 minute ago, Pappystein said:

BESIDES,   Isn't it about time you removed the "Un" from the BDB Wiki's name?

It's unofficial so I can quite correctly claim that all inaccuracies are my own and never the fault of the terrific work Cobalt and the team do on the mod.

[Gunslinger1]

I know this is something that has been addressed before, I've looked for the answer but haven't been able to locate it in the thread. I have BDB and remotetech loaded on KSP, but not all of the BDB antenna or dishes work. Not sure how to fix this. 

2 minutes ago, Gunslinger1 said:

I know this is something that has been addressed before, I've looked for the answer but haven't been able to locate it in the thread. I have BDB and remotetech loaded on KSP, but not all of the BDB antenna or dishes work. Not sure how to fix this. 

AH! Looks like there is no CFG file for it. Anyone know where to find one so I can add it?

[Friznit]

16 minutes ago, Gunslinger1 said:

I know this is something that has been addressed before, I've looked for the answer but haven't been able to locate it in the thread. I have BDB and remotetech loaded on KSP, but not all of the BDB antenna or dishes work. Not sure how to fix this. 

AH! Looks like there is no CFG file for it. Anyone know where to find one so I can add it?

 There's an old one in the BDB compatibility folder but it needs someone who plays remotetech to update it.

[computercat04]

Lunar Orbiter 1

[Starhelperdude]

how do you put the solar panels of the Lunar Orbiter without clipping them each other? I just cannot do it 

[computercat04]

Just now, Starhelperdude said:

how do you put the solar panels of the Lunar Orbiter without clipping them each other? I just cannot do it 

I used the .craft file.

[Starhelperdude]

2 minutes ago, computercat04 said:

I used the .craft file.

I will look into it

[OrbitalManeuvers]

2 hours ago, Starhelperdude said:

how do you put the solar panels of the Lunar Orbiter without clipping them each other? I just cannot do it 

The secret keystrokes you see happen are W x2, Q x2, Shift+E x8. Surely there is an easier way but this works.

Spoiler

 

 

[squeaker0704]

how do you rescale the second stage for the c3

[KeaKaka]

1 minute ago, squeaker0704 said:

how do you rescale the second stage for the c3

Using the rescale mod.

[squeaker0704]

can you get a link to it

[wallum61]

Hey

Various Delta2 parts are not showing up for me in the parts list, such as fuel tanks or the RS27 engine. I can load vessels with the said included parts, but not utilise the parts in new designs. I looked in the part configs and noticed that the category for various of the parts is "none". Not sure if I missed something but is there any particular reason for this?

Cheers