DylanSemrau Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 @Zorgwow this RS-25 looks great Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starhelperdude Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 M1?! or something else?! idk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clamp-o-Tron Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 Yep, that’s M-1. It’s looking excellent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jcking Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 (edited) M-1, but wasn't that for NOVA? Edited March 16, 2021 by Jcking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorg Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 14 minutes ago, Jcking said: M-1, but wasn't that for NOVA? Yup. However we've always wanted the M-1 in BDB for a revamped saturn update since it was contemporary to Saturn V development and is a crazy cool engine (before being killed off as a result of the Apollo programs funding requirements). We have no plans for Nova itself but you can have some fun with uprated saturns hopefully . The vacuum version pictured is with a 40:1 nozzle but I plan to make a 20:1 sea level optimized version too. We have at least two more slightly less less well known engines planned for BDB 1.8 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CobaltWolf Posted March 16, 2021 Author Share Posted March 16, 2021 3 minutes ago, Zorg said: We have at least two more slightly less less well known engines planned for BDB 1.8 . (We do?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clamp-o-Tron Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 27 minutes ago, Zorg said: We have at least two more slightly less less well known engines planned for BDB 1.8 . 24 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said: (We do?) Uhhh.... HG-3 and this... thing? http://www.astronautix.com/s/saturnlcb-storable-140.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CobaltWolf Posted March 16, 2021 Author Share Posted March 16, 2021 3 minutes ago, Clamp-o-Tron said: Uhhh.... HG-3 and this... thing? Well I know for a fact it's NOT HG-3 but I'll let @Zorg explain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman.Spiff Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 My predictions are J2T and E1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starhelperdude Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 Just now, Spaceman.Spiff said: My predictions are J2T and E1 we already have J2T, E1 needs to be revamped but we know it maybe a variant of the f1? like a sustainer or even vac variant? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman.Spiff Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 Just now, Starhelperdude said: f1 careful what you wish for..... we might get ultra-cursed short F-1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starhelperdude Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 Just now, Spaceman.Spiff said: careful what you wish for..... we might get ultra-cursed short F-1 the picture burned into your eyes aswell?! ''nice''! are we getting the AJ-260s revamped? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorg Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 10 minutes ago, Clamp-o-Tron said: Uhhh.... HG-3 and this... thing? http://www.astronautix.com/s/saturnlcb-storable-140.html 6 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said: Well I know for a fact it's NOT HG-3 but I'll let @Zorg explain So @TimothyC and I spent quite some time looking into HG-3 through various original source files (as opposed to articles written about it) and as far as we can determine HG-3 was really a paper project. Not even so much a paper engine so much as a study program to examine various possibilities. The fact that there's a paper that suggests a J2 drop in replacement could be produced from some of the ideas studied for HG-3 as well as the influence the program had on the SSME has given it some notoriety. However the fact remains that this is the best reference image from an original source we could find for HG-3. Now if someone can find (well sourced) information to the contrary, or more importantly find some useful diagrams we could revisit HG-3. However when looking at pre SSME American work on staged combustion, we do have the very interesting Pratt and Whitney XLR-129. A 1,100kn staged combustion engine with 465s of vacuum specific impulse that was originally developed for a B52 launched rocket spyplane: Project Isinglass. P&W later then tried to uprate it and try to win the propulsion for shuttle but it didnt work out. However unlike HG-3, actual components were produced and tested and we have reasonably high quality references for it. I think it will be really fun engine with its axially oriented turbos and extensible transpiration cooled nozzle. (like the M1, the top section of the nozzle is regenerative but the lower section has the turbo exhaust flow through it and exhaust out through tiny holes in the bottom, different from film cooling which is dumped into the bell.) Now this doesnt have anything to do with Saturn even tangentially buuut its cool and I wanna make it . Just for information the nozzle exist is 66 inches which works out to just over 1m in game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidy12 Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 Is that... a M-1??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceFace545 Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 6 hours ago, Friznit said: Shiny configs for TU are also available in BDBNIC Edit: though I think it actually needs updating for the new Centaur G/T Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
golkaidakhaana Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 Is there any possibility of dedicated Seasat parts being added in the future ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrdinaryKerman Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, Zorg said: A *little* something for the Saturn update How many tris is that? And how did you make the pipes? Edited March 16, 2021 by OrdinaryKerman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorg Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 43 minutes ago, OrdinaryKerman said: How many tris is that? And how did you make the pipes? Its about 34k tris (18k verts), on the high side of poly count for ksp but not too unusual for complex engines. Final version will have a bit less as I remove some unwanted loops from pipes. Which brings me to your other question, the pipes are done using Bezier curves or path curves in blender. Sometimes I trace out a run using individual vertices, bevel the corners, convert to a curve (path) and then add in the geometry. Thats a method that works well for runs that have curves but also lot of straight sections (see below). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starhelperdude Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 Just now, Zorg said: Its about 34k tris (18k verts), on the high side of poly count for ksp but not too unusual for complex engines. Final version will have a bit less as I remove some unwanted loops from pipes. Which brings me to your other question, the pipes are done using Bezier curves or path curves in blender. Sometimes I trace out a run using individual vertices, bevel the corners, convert to a curve (path) and then add in the geometry. Thats a method that works well for runs that have curves but also lot of straight sections (see below). how do you make bezier curves? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorg Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 12 minutes ago, Starhelperdude said: how do you make bezier curves? Spoiler lots of tutorials out there, the first one should give you the basics of the bezier, the second has some clever alternative methods such as what I mentioned earlier. Play around with the various curve types and you'll soon get a feel for them and understand what works best for in what situations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pappystein Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 7 hours ago, Jcking said: M-1, but wasn't that for NOVA? 5 hours ago, Zorg said: So @TimothyC and I spent quite some time looking into HG-3 through various original source files (as opposed to articles written about it) and as far as we can determine HG-3 was really a paper project. Not even so much a paper engine so much as a study program to examine various possibilities. The fact that there's a paper that suggests a J2 drop in replacement could be produced from some of the ideas studied for HG-3 as well as the influence the program had on the SSME has given it some notoriety. However the fact remains that this is the best reference image from an original source we could find for HG-3. Now if someone can find (well sourced) information to the contrary, or more importantly find some useful diagrams we could revisit HG-3. However when looking at pre SSME American work on staged combustion, we do have the very interesting Pratt and Whitney XLR-129. A 1,100kn staged combustion engine with 465s of vacuum specific impulse that was originally developed for a B52 launched rocket spyplane: Project Isinglass. P&W later then tried to uprate it and try to win the propulsion for shuttle but it didnt work out. However unlike HG-3, actual components were produced and tested and we have reasonably high quality references for it. I think it will be really fun engine with its axially oriented turbos and extensible transpiration cooled nozzle. (like the M1, the top section of the nozzle is regenerative but the lower section has the turbo exhaust flow through it and exhaust out through tiny holes in the bottom, different from film cooling which is dumped into the bell.) Now this doesnt have anything to do with Saturn even tangentially buuut its cool and I wanna make it . Just for information the nozzle exist is 66 inches which works out to just over 1m in game. Personal opinion. Make the XLR-129 for anyone who wants to make Shuttle Saturn... As an alternative engine for an alternative launcher However a RS-2100 would be a good "here is as close as you are going to get to a REAL HG-3!" The RS-2100 was part of the SSTO National Aerospace program (that resulted in the X-33) You will note that the RS-2200 was the chosen engine. guess what, the RS-2100 is a conventional bell version of that. And gee gollie they both used modified J-2S turbo-pumps and designed to use the same hookups as J-2S (meaning if you wanted to they could be fitted, space allowing, on the Saturn Rockets using existing J-2 plumbing! There are drawings of the RS-2100, and there are drawings and photos of the test segment of the RS-2200 (the X-33 was to have 5? RS-2200 segments IIRC.) Sure, more modern than most Saturn proposals but is a direct evolution of the J-2S and it's combustion cycle owes it's development to HG-3. So not HG-3 but a spiritual replacement? Heck I don't know! I don't want to make you all do work you don't want to do http://www.astronautix.com/r/rs-2100.htmlhttp://www.astronautix.com/x/xrs-2200.htmlhttps://sketchfab.com/MartianDays/collections/rocket-engines Personally if someone build the RS-2200, I think it should actually be it's predecessor the J-2L which was one of the 1960s J-2X program's theoretical prototypes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceFace545 Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 Could y'all expand on the payload performance sheets. Its probably a lot of work so it's reasonable if you don't. But could you also show me how to calculate the payload to orbit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biohazard15 Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 40 minutes ago, Pappystein said: the X-33 was to have 5? RS-2200 segments IIRC This thing is already here, along with, well, entire X-33. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derega16 Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 (edited) Talk about Engines anyone have any information for F-1 Vac? As some early Nova proposal use F-1 second stage I don't know if it was a thing or not or they just planned to use regular F-1 Edited March 17, 2021 by derega16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pappystein Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 21 minutes ago, derega16 said: Talk about Engines anyone have any information for F-1 Vac? As some early Nova proposal use F-1 second stage I don't know if it was a thing or not or they just planned to use regular F-1 I think you are referring to the Martin Nova that had 8 F-1s in the 2nd stage? They were standard F-1s as far as the specs are concerned. No change to the bell. But since this was in the early days when Dr Rao's work was not well known... who knows. 1 hour ago, biohazard15 said: This thing is already here, along with, well, entire X-33. While it is true that the X-33 is already in (and it appears to be very VERY well made by Angel-125, However I will quote right from the OP of that thread: Parts to make your own X-33 inspired (NOT A REPLICA) SSTO or something more kerbal. While that mod looks amazing (I am re-building KSP right now to 1.11 and going to try it in my new JNSQ game.) It isn't a 1 to 1 replica and therefor may not fit in a Saturn That being said, I was providing the RS-2200 as a reference as it WAS built... where the RS-2100 was not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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