[1.12.5] Bluedog Design Bureau - Stockalike Saturn, Apollo, and more! (v1.13.0 "Забытый" 13/Aug/2023)

[Pappystein]

On 6/4/2021 at 11:51 AM, DaveyJ576 said:

What is the BDB designation of the E-1 engine?

in the Search type E1

Alternatively SEarch for Saturn

 

[Friznit]

7 hours ago, Fox62 said:

@Friznit
If I'm working on a RSU STS ship file to send your way (sorry this took so long, I missed your post at first and only noticed it recently), how would you suggest setting up an install for the purpose? ie., would you suggest just setting up an install with only BDB and the other mods I think I need to make something that works? For that matter, I'm assuming that I should try and minimize the number of mods other than BDB that are needed?

A completely vanilla install with only BDB (and its dependencies) installed is best.  If you can do it with just BDB & vanilla parts I can list it in the main part of the wiki as an alt history design, similar to the Eyes Turned Skyward page there. 

[JoeSheridan]

@Friznit I have a question for you by myself: Before the Delta revamp there was a discussion on the wiki-github about the ETS Delta 4000-5000 do you plan to bring them into the wiki? or is that not planned anymore? 

Edited June 7, 2021 by JoeSheridan

[Friznit]

52 minutes ago, JoeSheridan said:

@Friznit I have a question for you by myself: Before the Delta revamp there was a discussion on the wiki-github about the ETS Delta 4000-5000 do you plan to bring them into the wiki? or is that not planned anymore? 

Don't really have the parts available to make a convincing kit bash - mainly lacking 3m tankage for the Wide Body ELT (1.875m KSP Scale tanks) and the CCM 46 boosters for the 5000 family.  I'm open to suggestions.

[JoeSheridan]

1 hour ago, Friznit said:

Don't really have the parts available to make a convincing kit bash - mainly lacking 3m tankage for the Wide Body ELT (1.875m KSP Scale tanks) and the CCM 46 boosters for the 5000 family.  I'm open to suggestions.

Okay, we would need to rescale stock tanks for that. The new Delta tanks wouldn´t be usable for that since Tweakscale doesn´t gives the option to increase the size in only 2 dimensions to give only more diameter. And for the solids: The GEM 46 already in BDB comes close to the stats of the CCM 46´s. so we wouldn´t need new boosters. If i remind right the difference in mass (for the "IRL-weights" is under 100 kilograms, not bad for such heavy items.

Edited June 7, 2021 by JoeSheridan

[QAM00]

I was using this wiki page(https://github.com/friznit/Unofficial-BDB-Wiki/wiki/Crew-Modules) to try and create a gemini spacecraft but there was a problem, the retro module widens to quickly and doesn't fit right with the equipment module. I used the aio service module as a fix but that doesn't have spaces for the retro srbs, I might just be doing this wrong...

[Friznit]

21 minutes ago, QAM00 said:

I was using this wiki page(https://github.com/friznit/Unofficial-BDB-Wiki/wiki/Crew-Modules) to try and create a gemini spacecraft but there was a problem, the retro module widens to quickly and doesn't fit right with the equipment module. I used the aio service module as a fix but that doesn't have spaces for the retro srbs, I might just be doing this wrong...

Check you're using the correct parts - Meduci-R for the retro model, Meduci-E for the equipment module.  They fit together just fine.

[Pappystein]

So to put a final nail in the coffin as it were.   I found some source materials on the Saturn MLV program from 1965...  It is a composite done for Congress (I believe given the lack of major technical details and high level overview) of the entire MLV program to date (focused on Saturn V only)  

Here is the Summation of the HG-3 engine:

Clearly the HG-3 was a "Placeholder" as as way to conceptually work through the technology needed to bring a small (80 inch max diameter) 400klb thrust Hydrolox engine into existence.

https://ntrs.nasa.gov/citations/19650020081

HG-3 is dead, RL20 is king, all hail RL20

 

 

 

[Zorg]

1 hour ago, Pappystein said:

So to put a final nail in the coffin as it were.   I found some source materials on the Saturn MLV program from 1965...  It is a composite done for Congress (I believe given the lack of major technical details and high level overview) of the entire MLV program to date (focused on Saturn V only)  

Here is the Summation of the HG-3 engine:

Clearly the HG-3 was a "Placeholder" as as way to conceptually work through the technology needed to bring a small (80 inch max diameter) 400klb thrust Hydrolox engine into existence.

https://ntrs.nasa.gov/citations/19650020081

HG-3 is dead, RL20 is king, all hail RL20

 

 

 

Indeed thats the very same document that led me to give up on the HG-3

Edited June 7, 2021 by Zorg

[pTrevTrevs]

These are Mariner 10 parts, you say? Nonsense; I reject your reality and substitute my own.

Mariner 9.

Quote

Bonus: Neilney Kerman plays golf on the Moon with LM-7 Aquarius in the background (Apollo 13, Fra Mauro Highlands, April 1970).

 

[Fox62]

11 hours ago, Friznit said:

A completely vanilla install with only BDB (and its dependencies) installed is best.  If you can do it with just BDB & vanilla parts I can list it in the main part of the wiki as an alt history design, similar to the Eyes Turned Skyward page there. 

This is really an open question for any of the experienced builders in the thread, but is there any advice for building a rocket that hides a nosecone under an interstage of some sort? The one method I've been able to figure out involves significant cheesing of the offset tool and attaching the nose cone to a modular strut that's radially attached to the fuel tank.

Edited June 7, 2021 by Fox62

[KeaKaka]

3 hours ago, pTrevTrevs said:

These are Mariner 10 parts, you say? Nonsense; I reject your reality and substitute my own.

Mariner 9.

 

Nice Mariner!

What did you use for the propulsion unit?

[TaintedLion]

2 hours ago, Fox62 said:

but is there any advice for building a rocket that hides a nosecone under an interstage of some sort?

You could try turning part clipping on in the cheats menu.

[pTrevTrevs]

1 hour ago, KeaKaka said:

Nice Mariner!

What did you use for the propulsion unit?

That’s the Gemini lander engine on top of one of the structural adapters for the Mercury lab (drained of all its monoprop so it’s basically a structural element) with  fuel tanks clipped inside.

[Fox62]

Decided to just bite the bullet on exploiting the offset tools. I probably could have gotten this looking nicer with mods, but I was able to get this to work with just BDB and its dependencies (although I personally would recommend Atmospheric Autopilot if you want to fly the RS-IC like a plane, and you'll need either StageRecovery or Flight Manager for Reusable Stages to take advantage of the intended reusability).

Google Drive Link

The SPH folder just contains an RS-IC with some of the hardware for it to be stacked attached (mostly for convenience once I got around to moving it to the VAB) and the S-IC main tank, as well as additional reentry burn/boostback propellant, emptied (for boost back/reentry burn, would advise only using either the center Regor, or the center Regor and the two lower Regors, due to the much lower Center of Mass of the RS-IC). This version can be used for flight testing, and is stable enough to be sort of controllable with Stock SAS + Keyboard, although I would still highly recommend the use of Atmospheric Autopilot.

The VAB folder contains two versions of the RSU!STS, stacked and ready for launch with a dummy payload/mass simulator - one emulating the configuration of STS used prior to STS-206 (the launch of the Magellan probe to Venus, which failed due to the J-2 derived engine on the second stage suffering a hard start and failing), which uses a single engine stage known as the S-IVC (although, unlike the S-IVC of ETS, I don't think it's appreciably stretched - it's supposed to be a reduced cost/simplified production variant), and a version for STS-207 and onwards, using a mockup of the DEUS stage, which is basically ETS' S-IVC except with higher specific impulse engines.

I did take some screenshots showing the STS in action, although I will admit that I might need to do a V2 of the design to resolve controllability issues on the first stage during reentry (or just get better at figuring out how to do reentry burns, or reserve some oxidizer to run the thrusters on the RS-IC, or get better at flying reentries, or all three). Apologies in advance if these screenshots are too big.

Spoiler

The above image is the Lifter (also known as the RS-IC), immediately after separating from the second stage but before disposing of the interstage assembly (in RSU, that whole assembly is one piece that just mounts on-top of the nosecone, but part limitations mean I had to get a little creative with offsets and fairings)

Lifter undergoing powered flight testing - and yes, that is a set of eight Panthers in full afterburner pushing the lifter along.

A look at the UI during the powered test flight - and yes, I did this testing with MechJeb, Kerbal Engineer Redux, and Atmospheric Autopilot - in case you haven't figured it out, I consider myself a fairly average rocket engineer, and a far worse pilot.

 

[Pappystein]

3 hours ago, Fox62 said:

Decided to just bite the bullet on exploiting the offset tools. I probably could have gotten this looking nicer with mods, but I was able to get this to work with just BDB and its dependencies (although I personally would recommend Atmospheric Autopilot if you want to fly the RS-IC like a plane, and you'll need either StageRecovery or Flight Manager for Reusable Stages to take advantage of the intended reusability).

Google Drive Link

The SPH folder just contains an RS-IC with some of the hardware for it to be stacked attached (mostly for convenience once I got around to moving it to the VAB) and the S-IC main tank, as well as additional reentry burn/boostback propellant, emptied (for boost back/reentry burn, would advise only using either the center Regor, or the center Regor and the two lower Regors, due to the much lower Center of Mass of the RS-IC). This version can be used for flight testing, and is stable enough to be sort of controllable with Stock SAS + Keyboard, although I would still highly recommend the use of Atmospheric Autopilot.

The VAB folder contains two versions of the RSU!STS, stacked and ready for launch with a dummy payload/mass simulator - one emulating the configuration of STS used prior to STS-206 (the launch of the Magellan probe to Venus, which failed due to the J-2 derived engine on the second stage suffering a hard start and failing), which uses a single engine stage known as the S-IVC (although, unlike the S-IVC of ETS, I don't think it's appreciably stretched - it's supposed to be a reduced cost/simplified production variant), and a version for STS-207 and onwards, using a mockup of the DEUS stage, which is basically ETS' S-IVC except with higher specific impulse engines.

I did take some screenshots showing the STS in action, although I will admit that I might need to do a V2 of the design to resolve controllability issues on the first stage during reentry (or just get better at figuring out how to do reentry burns, or reserve some oxidizer to run the thrusters on the RS-IC, or get better at flying reentries, or all three). Apologies in advance if these screenshots are too big.

  Hide contents

The above image is the Lifter (also known as the RS-IC), immediately after separating from the second stage but before disposing of the interstage assembly (in RSU, that whole assembly is one piece that just mounts on-top of the nosecone, but part limitations mean I had to get a little creative with offsets and fairings)

Lifter undergoing powered flight testing - and yes, that is a set of eight Panthers in full afterburner pushing the lifter along.

A look at the UI during the powered test flight - and yes, I did this testing with MechJeb, Kerbal Engineer Redux, and Atmospheric Autopilot - in case you haven't figured it out, I consider myself a fairly average rocket engineer, and a far worse pilot.

 

Neat!   And the use of any of the mods you listed in the end is not just for the less than average pilot.   They dramatically ease workloads on a game that wasn't designed as a flight sim but rather a Rocketish sim

Did you fly this with either SOCKS or Kerbolrise on the 2nd stage (for the full Shuttle + Flyback booster experience?)   If so how did it fly?

 

[Fox62]

27 minutes ago, Pappystein said:

Neat!   And the use of any of the mods you listed in the end is not just for the less than average pilot.   They dramatically ease workloads on a game that wasn't designed as a flight sim but rather a Rocketish sim

Did you fly this with either SOCKS or Kerbolrise on the 2nd stage (for the full Shuttle + Flyback booster experience?)   If so how did it fly?

Haven't yet tried it with SOCKS or Kerbolrise - the install I used to build it was intentionally created to be just BDB, it's dependencies, and the quality of life mods mentioned (and also CorrectCoL, because I'm not amazing with aircraft). Although, honestly, I'm more likely to use the Mk 2 Stockalike Expansion parts to try building an RSU!Orbiter - while I theoretically could build a reusable second stage ala the RSU timeline's "Orbiter II", if I'm going to do that I'd want to recreate Lifter II at the same time - and I just don't really have the "what that looks like" information I'd want for a proper recreation. As for how it flies without that... eh. Let's just say that "Mach 1+ noesdive into the ocean" isn't conducive to reuse and leave it at that (and I'm almost certain it's due to a mix of "not enough pitch authority due to lacking oxidizer for vernor thrusters" and "reentered too steeply").

[TaintedLion]

Is Scansat functionality going to be added to the new Mariner 10 parts?

[CobaltWolf]

On 6/7/2021 at 7:58 AM, JoeSheridan said:

@Friznit I have a question for you by myself: Before the Delta revamp there was a discussion on the wiki-github about the ETS Delta 4000-5000 do you plan to bring them into the wiki? or is that not planned anymore?

On 6/7/2021 at 8:57 AM, Friznit said:

Don't really have the parts available to make a convincing kit bash - mainly lacking 3m tankage for the Wide Body ELT (1.875m KSP Scale tanks) and the CCM 46 boosters for the 5000 family.  I'm open to suggestions.

If I remember, the ETS Deltas use 3x H-1s for their first stage as well (which is why they're capable of boosterless missions) - that would require a custom mount and even then being able to fit them is, ah, dubious. One thing worth remembering with Eyes is for the longest time, the designs really only existed on a spreadsheet. So the details aren't very fleshed out except for a handful of the later rockets that had a lot of art done of them.

 

Edited June 8, 2021 by CobaltWolf

[biohazard15]

Is there any plans for standalone R-4D, made as engine (e.g. with ModuleEnginesFX, not ModuleRCSFX)?

[Cdodders]

2 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

If I remember, the ETS Deltas use 3x H-1s for their first stage as well (which is why they're capable of boosterless missions) - that would require a custom mount and even then being able to fit them is, ah, dubious. One thing worth remembering with Eyes is for the longest time, the designs really only existed on a spreadsheet. So the details aren't very fleshed out except for a handful of the later rockets that had a lot of art done of them.

 

That looks goo... wait a minute! What's that I see there? GREEN LIGHTS?

[alberro+]

3 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

If I remember, the ETS Deltas use 3x H-1s for their first stage as well (which is why they're capable of boosterless missions) - that would require a custom mount and even then being able to fit them is, ah, dubious. One thing worth remembering with Eyes is for the longest time, the designs really only existed on a spreadsheet. So the details aren't very fleshed out except for a handful of the later rockets that had a lot of art done of them.

 

Seeing Russian on an Apollo CM is...

concerning.

[CobaltWolf]

1 hour ago, Cdodders said:

That looks goo... wait a minute! What's that I see there? GREEN LIGHTS?

Yeah the Apollo SM/decoupler has running lights.

Just now, alberro+ said:

Seeing Russian on an Apollo CM is...

concerning.

Oh, I should clarify, that's a flag I made to use as a placeholder. I mean, I'll probably make it available in the mod but it's not part of the texture.

[Beccab]

Just now, alberro+ said:

Seeing Russian on an Apollo CM is...

concerning.

it was the next logical step from this http://www.astronautix.com/n/nasaslostbotoryofbp-1227.html

[Beccab]

Inspired by @Pappystein 's ISS, I've tried recreating  Boeing's Space Operations Center proposal from 1981 and supposed to become operational in the 90s.

Spoiler

I wont spam the whole thread with a thousand pics, but I've posted the whole mission here