[1.12.5] Bluedog Design Bureau - Stockalike Saturn, Apollo, and more! (v1.13.0 "Забытый" 13/Aug/2023)

[JoeSheridan]

1 hour ago, derega16 said:

Just read e of pi ETS 10 years retrospective, revised Saturn multi body sounds interesting

Me too, for the 3rd or 4th time since if found that story..... the funny part is: I found it because i saw a youtube vid of a Saturn H03 based on bdb´s mod. I found that concept nice and from that i came to this mod AND that brilliant story.

And there are a lot more nice space related alt historys out there, now i am reading this:

https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/ocean-of-storms-a-timeline-of-a-scientific-america.418531/page-23#post-20212318

[Pioneer_Steve]

MESA & RTG Experiments

[Pappystein]

On 9/14/2021 at 12:32 PM, Zorg said:

Taking another little break from Skylab related stuff for...

For comparison

The things you miss when you Unsuccessfully try to cut your finger off... and then getting Vertigo 2 days latter.

The E-1 looks amazing in it's raw form Zorg.    As one of the original cheerleaders begging for this engine to come to BDB I was very happy with the old model (aside from the 1.25m ring on top)    The new model is a light year or more, better, and fixes the giant ring issue...   So 2 E-1s in my Atlas stage and a half builds can now be a thing!    I HOPE!

Now all that is needed for Titan I is an S-4... which is basically a LR-105 but with a different upper atmo bell and more thrust + inline LR101s(which are in game already).  I have never found any detailed drawing for it but it suposedly shares 85% commonality with the LR-105 from Atlas.      I assume it is an LR-105 without the difuser and with a Rao Bell of larger expansion and braized tube wall construction.   *EDIT*  Hmm, now that I think about it, that almost sounds like the Bell on the existing E-1...... CUT AND PASTE!   *EDIT*

 

An E-1 / S-4 powered Titan would be cool (Please PLEASE don't think we need a new bespoke engine.)    I am going to dig into my documents I used for my Titan Article and try to just come up with a good MM Patch for the LR-105 to turn it into the S-4.   If I do it right, it wouldn't be an engine to use on Atlas unless you are going for light payloads.

 

Edited September 16, 2021 by Pappystein

[CessnaSkyhawk]

Hi there! I've been working on a new tech tree based directly around BDB, and just wrapped my first alpha release. Just figured I'd share it here too in case any other BDB fans wanted to take a look at the balancing so far - it's very early alpha so it's definitely not useable in a real game yet though.

 

*Admins/BDB authors - I'm fairly new to the mod development side of things here, so if this kind of post is frowned upon/considered advertising, just let me know and I'll take it down ASAP 

[Zorg]

8 minutes ago, CessnaSkyhawk said:

Hi there! I've been working on a new tech tree based directly around BDB, and just wrapped my first alpha release. Just figured I'd share it here too in case any other BDB fans wanted to take a look at the balancing so far - it's very early alpha so it's definitely not useable in a real game yet though.

 

*Admins/BDB authors - I'm fairly new to the mod development side of things here, so if this kind of post is frowned upon/considered advertising, just let me know and I'll take it down ASAP 

Its most welcome! Squeezing in BDB into the stock tech tree is quite a nightmare and we are always very interested when other tech tree makers offer support for BDB  

[Pioneer_Steve]

17 minutes ago, CessnaSkyhawk said:

Hi there! I've been working on a new tech tree based directly around BDB, and just wrapped my first alpha release. Just figured I'd share it here too in case any other BDB fans wanted to take a look at the balancing so far - it's very early alpha so it's definitely not useable in a real game yet though.

 

*Admins/BDB authors - I'm fairly new to the mod development side of things here, so if this kind of post is frowned upon/considered advertising, just let me know and I'll take it down ASAP 

This is something I really need.

[Zorg]

3 hours ago, Pappystein said:

The E-1 looks amazing in it's raw form Zorg.

Cooked and served now

 

3 hours ago, Pappystein said:

 

Now all that is needed for Titan I is an S-4... which is basically a LR-105 but with a different upper atmo bell and more thrust + inline LR101s(which are in game already). 

 

Well let me know if you find any real details on it, no promises but can consider since the LR89 and LR105 both need to be remade at some point. I *might* consider an expanded bell 105 but a lot of considerations like texture space etc would come into play.

[CessnaSkyhawk]

35 minutes ago, Zorg said:

Its most welcome! Squeezing in BDB into the stock tech tree is quite a nightmare and we are always very interested when other tech tree makers offer support for BDB  

Yeah - that's pretty much the reason I'm making it - BDB never seems to fit in cleanly with most tech trees, so I figured, why not make a tree centered around BDB!

[Zorg]

Maybe wasnt accurate to say served earlier  E1 is now on github.

 

Edited September 16, 2021 by Zorg

[Pappystein]

3 hours ago, Zorg said:

Cooked and served now

 

Well let me know if you find any real details on it, no promises but can consider since the LR89 and LR105 both need to be remade at some point. I *might* consider an expanded bell 105 but a lot of considerations like texture space etc would come into play.

The engine looks SWEET!    Can't wait till I fly it....  Which sadly won't be for a while given the project I have undertaken...

RE S-4,   It never left the drawing board.  Atleast Battleship bells and functioning combustion chambers were made for the E-1.     The biggest source for it is :

http://www.astronautix.com/s/s-4engine.html

 

There is a potential that an old Janes All the Worlds Aircraft from the early 1960s would have more....    But I don't have access to anything older than 1974 OR newer than 1954   That 20 year span there are none in any reference libraries in my area.

 

Two different Wiki groups list Janes AtwA 1964 if anyone out there has that year (or the year before or after maybe....)

 

Also, Looks like Rocketdyne intended the S-4 to be used as their "alternative" engine for a Florine powered X-15B    ***SHUDDER***

 

Edited September 16, 2021 by Pappystein

[birdog357]

1 hour ago, Pappystein said:

The engine looks SWEET!    Can't wait till I fly it....  Which sadly won't be for a while given the project I have undertaken...

RE S-4,   It never left the drawing board.  Atleast Battleship bells and functioning combustion chambers were made for the E-1.     The biggest source for it is :

http://www.astronautix.com/s/s-4engine.html

 

There is a potential that an old Janes All the Worlds Aircraft from the early 1960s would have more....    But I don't have access to anything older than 1974 OR newer than 1954   That 20 year span there are none in any reference libraries in my area.

 

Two different Wiki groups list Janes AtwA 1964 if anyone out there has that year (or the year before or after maybe....)

 

Also, Looks like Rocketdyne intended the S-4 to be used as their "alternative" engine for a Florine powered X-15B    ***SHUDDER***

 

https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?isbn=&an=john taylor&tn=janes worlds aircraft 1964-1965&n=100121503&cm_sp=mbc-_-ats-_-used  $60 is a bit steep for a single bit of research, until you see Amazon's price of $500....

[hikerchick29]

Am I missing something, or was the Juno I endcap removed?  It's not listed with any other etoh search in the parts list 

(nm, found it)

Edited September 17, 2021 by hikerchick29

[birdog357]

3 hours ago, Pappystein said:

There is a potential that an old Janes All the Worlds Aircraft from the early 1960s would have more....    But I don't have access to anything older than 1974 OR newer than 1954   That 20 year span there are none in any reference libraries in my area.

If I placed the hold correctly, I have

 

Quote

1943/44-1945/46, 1948, 1950/51, 1953/54-1954/55, 1957/58-1959/60, 1962/63-1964/65, 1968/70, 1976/77

On the way to my local library. Will advise.

[MashAndBangers]

Request for the wetlabs:   Can we get an LH2 only option for the fuel load?  For Nuclear reasons of course >:)

Edited September 17, 2021 by MashAndBangers

[SpaceFace545]

@Zorg sooo downloading the Apollo/saturn branch now is really messed up. Everything is reverted back to the old stuff and none of the new Saturn, Apollo, and even your E-1 appears.

[Spaceman.Spiff]

17 minutes ago, SpaceFace545 said:

@Zorg sooo downloading the Apollo/saturn branch now is really messed up. Everything is reverted back to the old stuff and none of the new Saturn, Apollo, and even your E-1 appears.

Are you 100% sure you have the right branch?

https://github.com/CobaltWolf/Bluedog-Design-Bureau/tree/apollo-saturn-revamp/Gamedata/Bluedog_DB/Parts/Engines

because it looks like the new stuff is there

[SpaceFace545]

5 minutes ago, Spaceman.Spiff said:

Are you 100% sure you have the right branch?

https://github.com/CobaltWolf/Bluedog-Design-Bureau/tree/apollo-saturn-revamp/Gamedata/Bluedog_DB/Parts/Engines

because it looks like the new stuff is there

Yeah, I'm downloading exactly that but it ends up giving me this old repo. Kinda weird.

[Jcking]

26 minutes ago, SpaceFace545 said:

Yeah, I'm downloading exactly that but it ends up giving me this old repo. Kinda weird.

This has been happening with other mods, and it seems it's a problem with Github itself. downloading the individual files still works however (though it is rather tedious).

[SpaceFace545]

10 minutes ago, Jcking said:

This has been happening with other mods, and it seems it's a problem with Github itself. downloading the individual files still works however (though it is rather tedious).

I finally fixed this by forking BDB and then turning the Apollo/Saturn branch into the default. I guess GitHub is automatically downloading the main branch instead of the selected one

[birdog357]

Would it be possible to get active cooling as an option on the cryo tanks in the new parts? I'd love to build the Mars ship from Stephen Baxter's Voyage but the fuel runs out entirely too fast.

[biohazard15]

14 hours ago, Zorg said:

Maybe wasnt accurate to say served earlier  E1 is now on github.

Looks great!

But, a request: since technically it's not a part of Apollo-Saturn revamp, can you upload it to master branch, not only to Apollo revamp one?

[space_powder]

Should I be using a lofted trajectory for the revamped Saturn V? Seems like I always fly past apogee and start tumbling back down with the S-II stage still running. Playing with JNSQ
EDIT: Tried PVG with the settings from the BDB wiki, 170 km and I circularized without S-IVB seperation. I like to keep my launches fairly accurate like the freak I am and I'm sure there's something I'm doing wrong

Edited September 17, 2021 by space_powder

[Jcking]

24 minutes ago, space_powder said:

Should I be using a lofted trajectory for the revamped Saturn V? Seems like I always fly past apogee and start tumbling back down with the S-II stage still running. Playing with JNSQ
EDIT: Tried PVG with the settings from the BDB wiki, 170 km and I circularized without S-IVB seperation. I like to keep my launches fairly accurate like the freak I am and I'm sure there's something I'm doing wrong

300km will circularize with S-IVb and enough delta V to get to the Mun.

[jefferyharrell]

3 hours ago, birdog357 said:

Would it be possible to get active cooling as an option on the cryo tanks in the new parts? I'd love to build the Mars ship from Stephen Baxter's Voyage but the fuel runs out entirely too fast.

In the meantime, it's possible to tune or even disable boiloff in the mod's difficulty settings. I play with it at 10% personally, but that's still much too fast a rate for interplanetary travel. Which I guess is realistic, but setting it to 10% lets me get a Centaur to the Mun (in JNSQ) with something left in the tank.

[CobaltWolf]

On 9/15/2021 at 10:07 PM, DaveyJ576 said:

Love it! Is there any chance you could do a part switch config for the other front quadrant so that a collapsed LRV could be carried? No need to actually do a rover, there are plenty of those already. The robotics parts in 1.11.2 allow you to create a deployment mechanism for a LRV, but the current descent stage config makes that a little awkward when the LRV is stowed.

It's looking increasingly likely as it gets requested more... It's something I can look into I suppose. Just the cutout or something. The colliders look like they're already split up...

EDIT: @DaveyJ576 How about this? Show me a rover that can fit inside and I'll be more motivated to do it The colliders would effectively be the from the edge of the front leg quadrant to the edge of the side... here lemme just show. You have the pink opening to work with there.

On 9/15/2021 at 10:29 PM, OrdinaryKerman said:

So in this universe, casual English is written in Cyrillic but formal English is written in Latin script

Uh, something like that lol

 

On 9/15/2021 at 10:32 PM, SpaceFace545 said:

But I play in KSRSS Hrumph!!!

Jokes aside these are looking outstanding.

Deal with it, lmao. Just don't zoom in on it, it's fiiiiiiine

 

On 9/15/2021 at 10:57 PM, Kerbal01 said:

Getting horrific oscillations with an Apollo mounted atop the new Venus flyby habitat.

@Zorg, didn't we figure this out? Something to do with the 1.12 docking port changes combined with the existing issue from the old one?

 

On 9/15/2021 at 11:54 PM, Galileo chiu said:

Will it work with rastor prop?

I don't believe so, unless you have a third party config. But we also don't really have IVAs...

 

On 9/16/2021 at 5:00 AM, derega16 said:

Just read e of pi ETS 10 years retrospective, revised Saturn multi body sounds interesting

SOFI on upper stage l, first stage changed to Atlas V-style copper. Maybe able to do with tweakscaled Titan LDC parts.

Yeah, I honestly am not sure where we'll go from here regarding the ETS Saturns. E of Pi has been cagey the last few times I spoke, and I take the 10 year retrospective post to essentially be washing his hands of the thing. I do have some thoughts, however:

- I've been told the length for the S-IVC is incorrect, and needs to be 2x as long as an S-IVB. I'm not quite sure on that, I believe @Scorpuran the math there. Since the Saturn tanks are all going to have length switches, I suppose we'll just end up with both S-IVB lengths, in additions to others.

- And on that note, the dual-engine mount for the S-IVC will be a switch on the S-IVB mount, which also should have a couple more by the time we're done.

- The S-1E and S-1F (Multibody) stages will probably be a single part with length switching. Not sure about the colors yet, but I imagine even if I don't get around to making an Atlas Copper texture switch, someone else will eventually.

- There will probably be SOFI switches for the cryogenic tanks.

- There is already going to be some form of 260in decoupler, for the AJ-260s and LRBs, so there will be a proper decoupler for the H03.

 

6 hours ago, birdog357 said:

Would it be possible to get active cooling as an option on the cryo tanks in the new parts? I'd love to build the Mars ship from Stephen Baxter's Voyage but the fuel runs out entirely too fast.

Not any time soon, but it's definitely something that I'd like to look into for that sort of purpose. Something that kinda looks like a radiator mounted onto an industrial air conditioner the kerbals salvaged I'm not sure how the actual science/physics break down, but I'd be interested in something that just cancels boiloff for gameplay purposes.

 

6 hours ago, biohazard15 said:

Looks great!

But, a request: since technically it's not a part of Apollo-Saturn revamp, can you upload it to master branch, not only to Apollo revamp one?

It is part of the Apollo-Saturn revamp, since the size changed (I believe) to be more accurate to the Saturns.

 

And as a small thing for this morning, the LMAE and LMDE have a switch for being used with the CSM engine plate. It will adjust the attach node and add the rubber (?) gimbal cover. Note the LMAE still doesn't gimbal, I'm lazyyy

3 hours ago, jefferyharrell said:

In the meantime, it's possible to tune or even disable boiloff in the mod's difficulty settings. I play with it at 10% personally, but that's still much too fast a rate for interplanetary travel. Which I guess is realistic, but setting it to 10% lets me get a Centaur to the Mun (in JNSQ) with something left in the tank.

Prefacing by saying, enjoy the game however you want! But if I may muse on this somewhat, I like the boiloff as a gameplay mechanic. It balances out the superiority of hydrolox by limiting the situations it can be used in. Yeah, it can be great for LVs and departure burns, but you'll need to figure out something else for going longer distances. Active cooling will change that a bit, but I'd also like that to scale poorly. IE there won't be one small enough for a Centaur, but at a Voyage Ares scale they'll work at the cost of a ton of EC.

Edited September 17, 2021 by CobaltWolf