[1.12.5] Bluedog Design Bureau - Stockalike Saturn, Apollo, and more! (v1.13.0 "Забытый" 13/Aug/2023)

[Abrecan]

12 minutes ago, Sgt.Shutesie said:

Wait, so you can't control liquid fueled engines thrusts' or you can't control the thrust on the SRM?

the SRM; even if I right clicked the start engine button it would not let me engage the engine.

[Jso]

2 minutes ago, Abrecan said:

the SRM; even if I right clicked the start engine button it would not let me engage the engine.

It sounds like you had a run of the mill crash. I just test fired the Lios no problem.

[VenomousRequiem]

8 minutes ago, Abrecan said:

the SRM; even if I right clicked the start engine button it would not let me engage the engine.

Mod list? Log? Please and thank you.

[TalonCG]

Just popping in to say thank you for this awesome mod.

I'm LOVING it!

 

[CobaltWolf]

15 hours ago, TalonCG said:

Just popping in to say thank you for this awesome mod.

I'm LOVING it!

 

Realized I can't stream tonight due to a senior project meeting, so I will be streaming LEM development for several hours on Twitch. This will be the LAST STREAM until late September, so if you can be sure to stop by for a bit! Once it's over my desktop will be getting packed up for the move!

[CobaltWolf]

Stream is done! Apollo propulsion systems (You can really see how much detail I need to go back and add to the SPS):

[Avalon304]

Is the apollo beta release spoken of in the title the Command Module and Service Module?

 

Also Im super excited to eventually have a really good heavy life platform when the Sarnus V comes along... 6.25m is gonna be nice...

[legoclone09]

54 minutes ago, Avalon304 said:

Is the apollo beta release spoken of in the title the Command Module and Service Module?

 

Also Im super excited to eventually have a really good heavy life platform when the Sarnus V comes along... 6.25m is gonna be nice...

Yes, it is CSM. I'm not sure about LEM right now. And we're all hyped for Sarnus V, I mean, what mod has ever done 6.25m? None!

[Araym]

1 hour ago, Avalon304 said:

Is the apollo beta release spoken of in the title the Command Module and Service Module?

 

Also Im super excited to eventually have a really good heavy life platform when the Sarnus V comes along... 6.25m is gonna be nice...

To be "in scale" with an Apollo at 2.5m (and looking at Cobalt precision, to search almost real proportions), actually a Saturn V should be in the range of 5.6m diameter...
... but maybe a 6.25m could be nice for a Nova-like, concept, rocket (8 or more F-1 engines ???)

[VenomousRequiem]

14 minutes ago, Araym said:

To be "in scale" with an Apollo at 2.5m (and looking at Cobalt precision, to search almost real proportions), actually a Saturn V should be in the range of 5.6m diameter...
... but maybe a 6.25m could be nice for a Nova-like, concept, rocket (8 or more F-1 engines ???)

Trust me, I tried to tell them it was too big for a 3.75m S-IVb and 2.5m Apollo... I hate the idea of making any of those bigger, though. Compromises must be made. 

[Araym]

3 minutes ago, VenomousRequiem said:

Trust me, I tried to tell them it was too big for a 3.75m S-IVb and 2.5m Apollo... I hate the idea of making any of those bigger, though. Compromises must be made. 

You cannot go "small" doing some of the bigger (an sexier) rockets ever built...

... we need just a bigger VAB X°D
Pester Squad about it, and all we'll be fine. LOL

[VenomousRequiem]

2 minutes ago, Araym said:

You cannot go "small" doing some of the bigger (an sexier) rockets ever built...

... we need just a bigger VAB X°D
Pester Squad about it, and all we'll be fine. LOL

A real scale Saturn V does NOT fit in the VAB, but I think a Kerbal scale one would be fine. If not Snjo's Hanger Extender plugin still works, I think RoverDude maintains it. 

[Araym]

Actually, recycled from a KSP's Real Solar System mod, waiting for your Saturn, I have a Saturn V at 5.6m diameter that fit EXACTLY the VAB height.
I just build each stage separately, then merge them from top to bottom, scrolling it up and down (clipping sometime them under the VAB floor, if i need to check upper ones once assembled).

But then, once built, it fits.

Hangar Extender is overrated: pure will could do everything

--- EDIT ---

For proof (of a Saturn V at 5.6m diameter, even if it's an old craft without any BD parts: the top pod it's a 1.875m diameter, but the rocket it's 5.6m-3.75m, like it should be with a 2.5m Apollo)

 

... there is plenty of room (as I looking to a Saturn V from above), without any Hangar Extension...
... even for a BIGGER Nova rocket

Edited August 9, 2016 by Araym

[komodo]

For whatever it is worth, SpaceY has some big behind rockets in their hanger... for when you absolutely positively must raise the global temperature 2 degrees get it there yesterday.

Looking forward to whatever is cooked up, in any case  

[Araym]

... and the very same rocket (5.6-3.75m) with BD Apollo-Kane CSM (LES from Tantares, capsule shield and S-IVB fairing covering a stockish LEM done with Procedural Fairings).

It's big, but not so gigantic to need Hangar Extension...

... is anyone willing to see it launched???

The downside of this mod (IT'S NOT PART of BD mod) is that it has very rudimental model of engines (surelly compared to CobaltWolf detailed ones); it has not the same "LEGO" approach for the tanks (difficoult to build any possible "stretched" version of a Saturn, as they were proposed, rather the standard Saturn V), even if, opposed to the engine, the tanks, ullages rockets and small complements of the rocket are more nice looking than the engines; S-II second stage and S-IV-B third stage are made with stock tanks (tweackscaled up to 5.6m for the second stage, left original at 3.75m for the third stage) and I had to mess with ALT-F12 part clipping to connect some decouplers (as they lacked proper nodes to build it flush with stock parts)

... but waiting BD's Saturn V, it's a good placeholder overall...

In comparison with the real one, my creation it's just probably a bit short on second and third stage, but I'm doing what I can with partial parts available from other mod, some tweascaled ones and a lot of engineering fantasy (mine were just the cfg edits from the mod where i took the first stage and Saturn engines, that were done for Real Scale - and Real Fuels - mods)

 

Edited August 9, 2016 by Araym

[Jso]

The Apollo Service Module is 3.9 meters in diameter. Our Kane is 2.5 meters.

2.5/3.9 = 0.641

For a Saturn V we have the S-IVB at 6.6 meters diameter and the S-IC/S-II at 10.1 meters.

6.6 * 0.641 = 4.23 meters

10.1 * 0.641 = 6.47 meters

It should be somewhere in the neighborhood of 70 meters tall. I think that will just fit under the rafters in the VAB. These are the precisely correct proportions. I don't know what the actual size will be.

[DiscoSlelge]

2 hours ago, legoclone09 said:

 And we're all hyped for Sarnus V, I mean, what mod has ever done 6.25m? None!

Hype about what ? The hermes-Belle lab is the real thing of the mod

[Araym]

1 hour ago, Jso said:

6.6 * 0.641 = 4.23 meters

10.1 * 0.641 = 6.47 meters

... uhm...

... maybe...

<Araym makes some maths>

... uhm... all right... probably I rounded these pieces used in my Saturn for a third upper stage at 3.75m (as I planned to use the stock tanks), regardless CSM dimensions (as I had none up to now)...

Remembering back in time when I used OLDD Saturn (that was in perfect scale for a CSM at 2.5m), in effect it scraped the inner VAB roof................

 

... but then: it isn't the BD's Sarnus I actually a bit small??

I didn't check it exactly, but it seemed to me at around 3.75m...

an ipothetical S-IV-B should be in the same diameter...

3.75/6.6= 0.568181818181...

so S-IC/SII 10.1*0.57 = ~5.738.... m (basically my scales up there) BUT Apollo CSM at ~2.216m???

The CSM could be rounded (to recicle the stock 3x kerbals IVA) as it is at 2.5, BUT as Venomous said, we could stand an "not exactly scale" between it and the rocket, to keep easier building it in the VAB, without mods.
That probably (I have to find my old sheet) I did the rocket I posted above in the range of 3.75-5.625m, as a compromise: a bit bigger than FASA one (5m seemed too skinny for me), with a probably total height in the range of 60m (mine is shorter, as second and third stages were made with stock -tweakscaled when needed- parts that are probably too short for the diameter i chosen, to avoid to use the black and white smaller 3.75m tanks as a gap filler)

 

Edited August 9, 2016 by Araym

[CobaltWolf]

part of the issue is that I would rather not redo the Saturn 1 parts. We already verified the LEM fits in 3.75m. I don't want to monkey around with it too much more. S-1C is 10m IRL, scaling it by 64% gives it 6.25m when rounded. That way the Apollo and the Saturn V are both scaled properly, its just the S-IVB that is off. I'd rather not add another new size for it.

[Daelkyr]

12 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

part of the issue is that I would rather not redo the Saturn 1 parts. We already verified the LEM fits in 3.75m. I don't want to monkey around with it too much more. S-1C is 10m IRL, scaling it by 64% gives it 6.25m when rounded. That way the Apollo and the Saturn V are both scaled properly, its just the S-IVB that is off. I'd rather not add another new size for it.

I think this is the right way to go. 2.5m has become THE standard for any Apollo-like CSM. A 3.75m S-IVB and a 6.25m S-CI and S-II are a reasonable trade-off for following the n*1.25 diameter sizing conventions. And having seen the full Saturn V stack, it just looks right. I'm excited to get to use these parts eventually and I think the size decisions made on the Saturn and Apollo parts are a wonderful balance of realistic proportions, stock-alike design ascetic, and... well balance. I just hope we all can contain our rabid hype-crazed selves from burning out all of the wonderful creators of this mod and can enjoy BDB for a long time.

(At least until Squad breaks the game in 1.2 )

[JoseEduardo]

9 hours ago, Araym said:

Actually, recycled from a KSP's Real Solar System mod, waiting for your Saturn, I have a Saturn V at 5.6m diameter that fit EXACTLY the VAB height.
I just build each stage separately, then merge them from top to bottom, scrolling it up and down (clipping sometime them under the VAB floor, if i need to check upper ones once assembled).

But then, once built, it fits.

Hangar Extender is overrated: pure will could do everything

--- EDIT ---

For proof (of a Saturn V at 5.6m diameter, even if it's an old craft without any BD parts: the top pod it's a 1.875m diameter, but the rocket it's 5.6m-3.75m, like it should be with a 2.5m Apollo)

 

... there is plenty of room (as I looking to a Saturn V from above), without any Hangar Extension...
... even for a BIGGER Nova rocket

true, if you only try building stock-scaled versions, try RO and see the magic happen, even Proton, Soyuz, Energia and STS gets close to the top of the VAB, you can't build a N1, Vulkan, SLS, Saturn or any Nova variant without Hangar Extension

[NeoFatalis]

Have you considerd do add the Aerojet M-1 after you finish the apollo-saturn stuff? I don't really know if it's that necessary and the only reason I could think of to add it is that BDB users will be able to say that they have the biggest engine...

Here's some info:

http://www.astronautix.com/m/m-1.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-1_(rocket_engine)

[Araym]

1 hour ago, CobaltWolf said:

part of the issue is that I would rather not redo the Saturn 1 parts. We already verified the LEM fits in 3.75m. I don't want to monkey around with it too much more. S-1C is 10m IRL, scaling it by 64% gives it 6.25m when rounded. That way the Apollo and the Saturn V are both scaled properly, its just the S-IVB that is off. I'd rather not add another new size for it.

... considering the above (LEM that fits in 3.75m S-IV-B), to not rescale the Sarnus I (it should go around 4.375m, to proper comparison to an Saturn V, using 0.625m increments), the "stock" dimension at 2.5m for 3x kerbal pods and to avoid a weird, "small" third stage (and just living with a slightly bigger CSM), I posted my "placeholder" Saturn V to let you have an idea about a 3,75-5.625m scale for third and second/first stage, to consider it:

• easier to manage in the VAB, without any Hangar Extension
• follow a stockish scale, in 1.25 or 0.625m increments
• keep better proportion for the whole 1st-2nd-3rd stage, leaving just the CSM off it (just slightly, at 2.5m rather 2.216m)
• with tweakscale and stock tanks, or proper tanks made by you, it could eventually lead to those uprated Saturn proposed and never realized, still fitting in the VAB (stretched first/second stages; solid boostered one - using your Titan solids; etc etc etc)

... different from my "placeholder", a "Sarnus V" should have just a longer S-II and S-IV-B (I considered to add the small, black and white, 3.75m tank, both to the third stage and, tweakscaled to 5.625, to the second stage, but I disliked just the look of it with that texture pattern)

Edited August 9, 2016 by Araym

[komodo]

After some serious hiccups, the latest dev release has a preliminary compatibility patch for USI-LS. 

Now, heavy emphasis on preliminary: I cannot possibly claim it to be balanced, or even fun. (It might be Fun in the Dwarf Fortress sense, though.)

For any particularly brave souls out there... I am looking for any and all feedback and/or ideas for what sorts of features you would expect from a life support support patch.

Specifically:

• Values: How many supplies? How much endurance? Application of one part/module over another?
• Balance: Is there a progression in career? Should there be one? How steep should it be? Real vs. Fun?
• Logistics: That is, should the supplies be in the crewed parts? The service modules? Some of each?
• Anything else: Really, anything else that you can think of. 

It's just been roughed in, and it works, but I need to do a lot of adjusting still, I suspect.

[Araym]

9 hours ago, komodo said:

After some serious hiccups, the latest dev release has a preliminary compatibility patch for USI-LS. 

Now, heavy emphasis on preliminary: I cannot possibly claim it to be balanced, or even fun. (It might be Fun in the Dwarf Fortress sense, though.)

For any particularly brave souls out there... I am looking for any and all feedback and/or ideas for what sorts of features you would expect from a life support support patch.

....

I just copied the USI-LS in my game, just to check it.
On paper (as I just read the cfg) it seems decent:
- 3 days (6 hours) for Hermes (max Mercury space mission was 1-1.5 days in space)
- 14 days on Leo (Gemini 7 was in space 2 weeks... so it's consistent)

... I have not reach in career to use Apollo hardware, so I should try it in a sandbox mode...

On 9/8/2016 at 5:22 PM, CobaltWolf said:

part of the issue is that I would rather not redo the Saturn 1 parts. We already verified the LEM fits in 3.75m. I don't want to monkey around with it too much more. S-1C is 10m IRL, scaling it by 64% gives it 6.25m when rounded. That way the Apollo and the Saturn V are both scaled properly, its just the S-IVB that is off. I'd rather not add another new size for it.

In meanwhile, again advocating my thoughts about a Saturn/Sarnus V in the range of 3.75/5.625 meter, I did another craft with the "placeholder" parts I'm using actually:

again, like before:

- Bluedog's Kane as CSM assembly
- Procedural Fairing for S-IV-B petal adapter and LES shielding + Tantares LES
- all other parts from my placeholder Saturn V (a cfg edited to stock-ish values, dimension and resources from a Real Solar System mod rocket) - no more tweakscaled stock parts for S-II second stage and S-IV-B third stage, to have the proportioned rocked and only, slightly bigger CSM (2.5m instead of 2.216m, if it was kept in scale)

As I said before, it still fits inside the VAB without any mod, and seems pretty decent in proportion. At least for my point of view... (questionable as always )

Comparison with real life Saturn V:
 

Edited August 11, 2016 by Araym