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[1.12.3] Bluedog Design Bureau - Stockalike Saturn, Apollo, and more! (v1.11.0 "вне" 22/Oct/2022)


CobaltWolf
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9 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

Some small progress from last night - slight refinements to the first stage, and a draft of the second stage textures with probably the worst UV unwrap I've ever done, no seriously it's hideous I don't know what I was thinking. I am starting to hate the 'stringer' look that Titan has (and frankly, I can't see them at all in the majority of the GLV photos I have...) because it doesn't look... good. But I also haven't played with it too much past my first experiments with the first stage tank texture (which basically hasn't been touched since) so I'll see what I can do about it. Interstage model is obviously unfinished. I need to put some more effort into understanding the weird panel arrangement of the second stage, and pray my UVs don't preclude anything and make me start over...

 

From my looks at the various Titan Pictures I have seen.   It looks like the AZ-50 tank and the NTO tanks were made basically identical and then stacked one ontop of the other.  This would be why the outer skin looks both repetitive and weird.  

11 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

 

Want to call a little attention to some refinement I've done to the first stage as well. The 4 ribs (I believe they are the hold down points at the bottom, so it's a vertical reinforcement to transmit to load of the rocket into the pad until takeoff) are shaped much better now and capture the sort of 'flared' silhouette that I've noticed in a lot of images of the Titan 2.

 

The Stringer is the load transmission / Ground attachment point.  It is where the 4 legged "Launchpad Decoupler" would attach to the bottom of the rocket.   I THINK either Alphamense or Damonvv were working on that part.  You can see a spare one of those in the GLV picture you posted (the Grey Ring and triangle thingie between the camera and the launchpad.)   NASA had several of those on hand to speed up the Gemini program (They would replace it with every launch and refurbish used ones for future launches.)  

17 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

For reference, a good 23G pic and a good GLV pic. They should be pretty high res if you follow the link. Note the hold down ribs and air scoops, respectively. Trying to make this simple stack visually interesting however I can. :)

 

So does that mean the Titan II tank texture is going to have 4 square Tan areas so we know where to put ACS for the 23G version?   Texture switching?

It is too bad both those photos were taken after launch cause the cameras images are a bit distorted/blurred.  That being said looking at some pictures I have seen of the Titan at WPAFM, I think the stringers and ribs you see in the drawings can dissapear due to the lighting.  Thus think those should be diffuse/softened a bit in your model but not eliminated.  One thing is for sure, they make a great place to see a dent or scratch etc...

I don't know if you have seen these relitively new pictures of Titan rockets at WPAFB/USAFM but:

https://historicspacecraft.com/Rockets_Titan.html

Some nice closeups on the SRMU

31 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

Also, @Pappystein no I'm not removing the ablative part of the LR-91 bell it's pretty distinctive. :P

 

Awe Man!   Sad panda!

Seriously though, have you given thought to alternate colors to denote fuel types?   (Silver Kerolox, White AJ-5/7/9 Hypergolic, Redbrown AJ-11a/b Hypergolic and something else for Hydrolox?)

 

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Some (hopefully) constructive criticism is inbound! (DUCK!)

I love some of the new model additions like the hold down points. I am sort of indifferent to the air scoops. For me though the vertical cutouts (to clarify, is that the 'Stringer' construction?) are awful. I tried to think of a nicer, more polite word but there just isn't one. They are causing me to keep looking away from the screen shots because they are such an eye sore. My recommendation is that if they absolutely have to stay then they need to be toned down till they are as imperceptible as the they are in the old photos. If it is not absolutely necessary for you to keep them you should ditch them entirely. As they are now, I vastly prefer the old tanks and will stick with them. /harshtalk

PS. The engines are looking amazing!

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5 hours ago, Pappystein said:

From my looks at the various Titan Pictures I have seen.   It looks like the AZ-50 tank and the NTO tanks were made basically identical and then stacked one ontop of the other.  This would be why the outer skin looks both repetitive and weird.  

The Stringer is the load transmission / Ground attachment point.  It is where the 4 legged "Launchpad Decoupler" would attach to the bottom of the rocket.   I THINK either Alphamense or Damonvv were working on that part.  You can see a spare one of those in the GLV picture you posted (the Grey Ring and triangle thingie between the camera and the launchpad.)   NASA had several of those on hand to speed up the Gemini program (They would replace it with every launch and refurbish used ones for future launches.)  

So does that mean the Titan II tank texture is going to have 4 square Tan areas so we know where to put ACS for the 23G version?   Texture switching?

It is too bad both those photos were taken after launch cause the cameras images are a bit distorted/blurred.  That being said looking at some pictures I have seen of the Titan at WPAFM, I think the stringers and ribs you see in the drawings can dissapear due to the lighting.  Thus think those should be diffuse/softened a bit in your model but not eliminated.  One thing is for sure, they make a great place to see a dent or scratch etc...

I don't know if you have seen these relitively new pictures of Titan rockets at WPAFB/USAFM but:

https://historicspacecraft.com/Rockets_Titan.html

Some nice closeups on the SRMU

Awe Man!   Sad panda!

Seriously though, have you given thought to alternate colors to denote fuel types?   (Silver Kerolox, White AJ-5/7/9 Hypergolic, Redbrown AJ-11a/b Hypergolic and something else for Hydrolox?)

 

4 hours ago, Foxxonius Augustus said:

Some (hopefully) constructive criticism is inbound! (DUCK!)

I love some of the new model additions like the hold down points. I am sort of indifferent to the air scoops. For me though the vertical cutouts (to clarify, is that the 'Stringer' construction?) are awful. I tried to think of a nicer, more polite word but there just isn't one. They are causing me to keep looking away from the screen shots because they are such an eye sore. My recommendation is that if they absolutely have to stay then they need to be toned down till they are as imperceptible as the they are in the old photos. If it is not absolutely necessary for you to keep them you should ditch them entirely. As they are now, I vastly prefer the old tanks and will stick with them. /harshtalk

PS. The engines are looking amazing!

@damonvv made a Titan launch clamp for Tundra Space Center, which frankly you should be using ANYWAYS with BDB especially as he keeps making new pads (well, I think he's focusing on other stuff for the moment). His LC-19 (GLV pad) in particular is awesome!

You can see the 4 brighter squares in the image I posted, I'm humming and hawing over how to do it. I really want the Titan 2 parts to be capable of representing both versions without needing a ton of switching, besides having GLV / full gray paint schemes for the first stage. The ACS packs are going to be shared with the Transtage.

The 'stringer' construction looks awful right now, I wouldn't release them as they are. But I also haven't played with the tank textures much yet...

I have plenty of SRMU reference, but thanks. Not quite worried about that yet. :) And, one of our researchers basically lives at the NMUSAF, so I can have all the Titan IV photos I want from there. :)

The AJ3, AJ7, and AJ11 will all have their proper colored bells (though the AJ3 is basically white as well..?), I haven't made a decision on the -LH2 variants other than "I don't want to do a ton of extra work for them". With that said, the nozzles are probably the easiest parts to texture... I'm basically trying to get through all the 'base' variants of these and then I can see what sort of texture space I'm left with.

Speaking of @damonvv... he was kind enough to make this.

And @JadeOfMaar was kind enough to keep refining the custom plume for the LR-87 series (or at least, the AJ7 and AJ11).

 

Edited by CobaltWolf
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20 minutes ago, MOARdV said:

@CobaltWolf - I don't know if they help, but the last time I was at the Kansas Cosmosphere, I took a few pix of the LR-87 at the bottom of the Gemini-Titan stack at the corner of the museum.

The rest of the album is here.

Thank you! Something I caught that I'd sort of been ignoring in launch photos, but the GLV exhaust pipes seem really short compared to the other reference I have. Maybe I'll make that part of the "shroudless" LR-87-AJ7 mesh (along with the air scoops) and then keep the longer ones for the shrouded Titan 3 version. :)

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1 hour ago, MOARdV said:

@CobaltWolf - I don't know if they help, but the last time I was at the Kansas Cosmosphere, I took a few pix of the LR-87 at the bottom of the Gemini-Titan stack at the corner of the museum.

XK7BGj.jpg

The rest of the album is here.

Everything is there as of last April (2018)  when I was there.

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1 hour ago, CobaltWolf said:

Thank you! Something I caught that I'd sort of been ignoring in launch photos, but the GLV exhaust pipes seem really short compared to the other reference I have. Maybe I'll make that part of the "shroudless" LR-87-AJ7 mesh (along with the air scoops) and then keep the longer ones for the shrouded Titan 3 version. :)

I think (and I want to emphasize that word) that the LR-87-AJ-7 Gemini Titan 2's changes included the Turbopump exhaust.  They appear to be wider than the Military AJ-5 version.   In theory the wider exhaust pipes would reduce turbopump back-pressure at a lost of thrust velocity (and their-for total thrust.)   AJ-5s are typically listed with a slightly higher thrust than the NASA man rated AJ-7s.

Saying that I would guess that making 2 models for what are basically identical engines would be counter-productive to my mind... unless the same textures could be stretched on both without requiring extra work.   Also did you notice that the AJ-11As of Titan IVs have exhaust bells/cones on the turbopump exhaust (I don't know if the Ground Lit AJ-11s have them.)

Edited by Pappystein
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1 minute ago, Pappystein said:

I think (and I want to emphasize that word) that the LR-87-AJ-7 Gemini Titan 2's changes included the Turbopump exhaust.  They appear to be wider than the Military AJ-5 version.   In theory the wider exhaust pipes would reduce turbopump back-pressure at a lost of thrust velocity (and their-for total thrust.)   AJ-5s are typically listed with a slightly higher thrust than the NASA man rated AJ-7s.

Saying that I would guess that making 2 models for what are basically identical engines would be counter-productive to my mind... unless the same textures could be stretched on both without requiring extra work.   Also did you notice that the AJ-11As of Titan IVs have exhaust bells/cones on the turbopump exhaust (I don't know if the Ground Lit AJ-11s have them.)

There's going to be one engine to represent the AJ5/AJ7 together. It will just be a little detail.

What ground lit AJ11s? :P The shrouded versions of the engines will have to include some sort of modified exhausts anyways. Ugh, now you've got me thinking about how I essentially have to create extra variants of each engine for the shrouded versions...

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2 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

 

The AJ3, AJ7, and AJ11 will all have their proper colored bells (though the AJ3 is basically white as well..?), I haven't made a decision on the -LH2 variants other than "I don't want to do a ton of extra work for them". With that said, the nozzles are probably the easiest parts to texture... I'm basically trying to get through all the 'base' variants of these and then I can see what sort of texture space I'm left with.

 

 

AJ-3s flew with Hand applied batting similar to the picture of an Early F-1 engine that JSO sent you.  They never flew with the "dipped" batting look like the later Titans.   Literally they were Squares of material about 18" square that were glued on one at a time with the corners overlapping.

Early on the AJ-5s were the same way (although I think the batting was replaced during servicing for the Military Titans as they rotated them through maintenance cycles (remember over 200 were made and only 50 deployed at a time.)  So it is up to you.  If you want them to be "dipped" then go for it.....  You are the one doing the work after-all :)

2 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

 

You can see the 4 brighter squares in the image I posted, I'm humming and hawing over how to do it. I really want the Titan 2 parts to be capable of representing both versions without needing a ton of switching, besides having GLV / full gray paint schemes for the first stage. The ACS packs are going to be shared with the Transtage.

 

Weird thought here.   Maybe make a "plate" under the ACS that is part of the ACS and not on the tank...  Two textures 1 for Titan 23G and a different one for Transtage/other uses?  Removes the need to adjust the parts texture.  Gives the 23G the patched look (which is exactly what it is...)  and gives you an excuse to put a Mono tank right on the ACS instead of having Mono in either the Titan 2 upper stage tank or on the Transtage?    Just a thought(s)

5 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

There's going to be one engine to represent the AJ5/AJ7 together. It will just be a little detail.

What ground lit AJ11s? :P The shrouded versions of the engines will have to include some sort of modified exhausts anyways. Ugh, now you've got me thinking about how I essentially have to create extra variants of each engine for the shrouded versions...

The AJ-11s used to launch Titan III Agenas :)

That is the difference between the AJ-11 and the AJ-11A.  AJ-11A has a longer bell for Vaccum performance and the AJ-11 has the same bell as the AJ-9/7/5

 

And sorry for making more work.  I can shut up... It is easy just tell me too :P

 

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@Pappystein The ACS pack has a spherical tank under the housing, here's the model I sketched out a while back

6jgCybS.png

I was considering having the white conical exhaust tips on the AJ11's shrouded variant.

 

More small progress, I'm warming up to the first stage tank a little more but I imagine there will still be dissent in the ranks. The second stage needs to be scrapped and remade, the interstage needs to be remodeled to correct the proportions (the struts between the holes are too big).

HvPIXUr.png

 

Btw, there will probably be some level of hiatus after tonight seeing as Metro Exodus releases tomorrow and that's like, the only new game I am interested in for 2019. :)

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9 hours ago, Taki117 said:

If I might make a request:

Could we get sub-assemblies of the less famous Launchers? For example, the Viklun, the Rousette, Peacekeeper/MX Missile (Paxus) derived rockets, nad perhaps the Delta series?

 

9 hours ago, Barzon Kerman said:

I agree. And all the Atlas variations as subassemblies if possible, because it is very complicated to figure out how to put all the SRBs on in the right place.

I've got a Delta II 7920 and an Atlas V 53x (no upper stage) for you guys...

Delta II - Needs Smart Parts to control the staging of the boosters, the extra launch clamps from the "Extras" folder in BDB, (fixed that), and TweakScale (for the Smart Parts staging controllers)

Atlas V - Should be plug and play.

 

I'll start cranking out some others and upload those as well. I'll update this post as they become available.

Edited by MaverickSawyer
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9 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

@Pappystein The ACS pack has a spherical tank under the housing, here's the model I sketched out a while back

 

Forgot to ask earlier.  Any chance of a 4 or 5 way version of this for Transtage derived tugs?

I really don't like putting directional parts on upside down... it just looks weird to me :)

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Here are some shots of my M.O.S. 

250km orbit, 89.5 degree inclination, I started with the first section, on the back of a Leo pod, from KSC at 0 inclination and around 250km. A mix of Bluedog and Coatl cameras for reconna...science.

After I undocked and returned the Leo capsule I forgot to add a control a control block segment, so I had to fly one up on the center section, but I had to dock it twice to have it in the right position. It was a challenge.

After that began the arduous resupply mission to change the inclination. I could get close to 11 degrees per Transtage burn, so 11 fuel resupply missions.

Once the inclination was set, I flew up a second M.O.S. stack with antenna dishes for some SIGINT capability. Airlock at the end.

Lastly I sent up the M.W.R. (Morale, Welfare, Recreation) stack with two M.O.S hab modules and a center filled with supplies. Airlock at the end. (Thanks to Jso for helping with some MM configs)

2 science labs are cranking out a whopping couple of science per day, I'll de-orbit once it's all used up.

 

The M.O.S. rcs blocks don't work right, they seem off.

 

 

Spoiler

Looking at the back of the first segment. Towards prograde.

hniONir.png

Reconna...science!

KTnw5wu.png

 

Center of the station. Has a fuel cell to keep the station powered, emergency RCS, emergency battery, water tank, and LH2/LOX for the fuel cell.

X2kQKAh.png

 

Signal intercepts? MMAYBE!!!!!

FIiE2YC.png

 

M.W.R.  it's like a hotel! Disregard the trash module hanging underneath.

EDDEKWr.png

p09Cbex.png

 

BIG G WADDUP!

TUC2MFf.png

uREy1Bk.png

 

 

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1 hour ago, DriftNasty said:

250km orbit, 89.5 degree inclination,

Nice! I have to ask the question: why not do it from the start? Not to discount the fun of refueling though, very nicely done!

Edited by komodo
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Next batch of subassemblies has been completed... Should be posting them within the next few minutes.

New Delta II 7320 and 7420, and a revised 7920 with more historically accurate staging: groundstarts eject in two sets of three instead of all at once. Timing is adjustable via a Smart Parts timer. As delivered, the timing should be ~0.5 seconds. An Atlas V 551 has also been made.

I'm just going to make a Hangar for you guys over at KerbalX to browse through: https://kerbalx.com/hangars/54727

Side note... @CobaltWolf, @Jso... I noticed that the Daleth-K Interstage isn't sitting quite right... there's a slight gap between the top of the interstage and the bottom of the fairing plate.  Nothing that can't be fixed via offset (the subassemblies I'm issuing have this fix, btw), but it was a change made in the last update.

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1 hour ago, MaverickSawyer said:

As delivered, the timing should be ~0.5 seconds.

SmartParts does <1 sec timing?

1 hour ago, MaverickSawyer said:

Side note... @CobaltWolf, @Jso... I noticed that the Daleth-K Interstage isn't sitting quite right... there's a slight gap between the top of the interstage and the bottom of the fairing plate.  Nothing that can't be fixed via offset (the subassemblies I'm issuing have this fix, btw), but it was a change made in the last update.

The nodes were slightly repositioned to be consistent with the other interstages. Replace the fairing tank and interstage with fresh parts and it should line up.

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