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[1.12.3] Bluedog Design Bureau - Stockalike Saturn, Apollo, and more! (v1.11.0 "вне" 22/Oct/2022)


CobaltWolf
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I found an issue with the boilerplate Apollo CSM:

It's way too heavy. The Saturn I can't make orbit with it unless I slap four UA1202 SRBs on. This may be because I'm not using the right engine config for the H-1s, but I'm playing career mode, and I haven't unlocked that upgrade yet.

Either the boilerplate CSM needs to be lighter, or the pre-1973 H-1s need to be buffed.

Edited by BNSF1995
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Make sure you have everything set right.  There are a couple parts on the Saturn I that have ballasting options, including the CSM.  Those can make a big difference in performance.  I just launched a Pegasus this week, so I'm pretty sure the current revision is correct.  I'm following History of Spaceflight, so I definitely don't have any of the 1970s upgrades activated.

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Tried that. Didn't work. I should add that I'm playing in a 2.5x solar system, and not a stock-sized system. Also, the only part on the Saturn I I've found can be ballasted is the boilerplate SM, so either you're using a newer dev build, or the new Saturn I parts have yet to be balanced for a 2.5x-sized system.

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54 minutes ago, BNSF1995 said:

Tried that. Didn't work. I should add that I'm playing in a 2.5x solar system, and not a stock-sized system. Also, the only part on the Saturn I I've found can be ballasted is the boilerplate SM, so either you're using a newer dev build, or the new Saturn I parts have yet to be balanced for a 2.5x-sized system.

 

54 minutes ago, BNSF1995 said:

Tried that. Didn't work. I should add that I'm playing in a 2.5x solar system, and not a stock-sized system. Also, the only part on the Saturn I I've found can be ballasted is the boilerplate SM, so either you're using a newer dev build, or the new Saturn I parts have yet to be balanced for a 2.5x-sized system.

Alternatively your launch profile could just suck (no offense but I’m just saying like how do you gravity turn, is it in line with the spin of the planet? On the equator? are you ensuring you don’t waste deltaV . I usually when launching anything on the Saturn have a margin left over of 100-300 delta v more than I would expect once I reach orbit so this shouldn’t be an issue like you would think the mod gives you decently generous margins.  we need more specifics on this stuff basicly

I’ve learned a good deal about ascent from observing mechjeb and grgavity turn auto ascents and basicly following what they do on my own.

Just now, TheLoneOne said:

 

Alternatively your launch profile could just suck (no offense but I’m just saying like how do you gravity turn, is it in line with the spin of the planet? On the equator? are you ensuring you don’t waste deltaV . I usually when launching anything on the Saturn have a margin left over of 100-300 delta v more than I would expect once I reach orbit so this shouldn’t be an issue like you would think the mod gives you decently generous margins.  we need more specifics on this stuff basicly

I’ve learned a good deal about ascent from observing mechjeb and grgavity turn auto ascents and basicly following what they do on my own. so if I have these specifics it would help narrow down how it’s not balanced or if it’s player error instead of mod error.

 

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1 hour ago, BNSF1995 said:

Tried that. Didn't work. I should add that I'm playing in a 2.5x solar system, and not a stock-sized system. Also, the only part on the Saturn I I've found can be ballasted is the boilerplate SM, so either you're using a newer dev build, or the new Saturn I parts have yet to be balanced for a 2.5x-sized system.

IIRC, BDB is built specifically for 2.5x. Also IIRC, the Saturn I has little to no margin for error when it comes to getting into orbit on 2.5x/RSS. You just have to fly a precise flight profile. It's been mentioned several times before and I think @Zorg has said it many times before that you just need to fly it very carefully.

Edited by GoldForest
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I use MechJeb because manual ascent is too hard for me. Also, I'm using KSRSS, so the launches are happening at LC-34. I usually launch to an inclination of 32.5 degrees for orbital launches, and use MechJeb to launch into the plane of the Moon for lunar launches (such as Ranger, Lunar Orbiter, and Surveyor; with lunar Apollo missions, I do what NASA did and wait for a full moon). It's strange, because the pre-1973 H-1 engines of the current stable build of BDB can launch into my standard 32.5 degree inclination, as well as to polar orbits, with ease.

Edited by BNSF1995
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54 minutes ago, GoldForest said:

IIRC, BDB is built specifically for 2.5x. Also IIRC, the Saturn I has little to no margin for error when it comes to getting into orbit on 2.5x/RSS. You just have to fly a precise flight profile. It's been mentioned several times before and I think @Zorg has said it many times before that you just need to fly it very carefully.

I've not tested the boiler plate launch performance tbh. Only Apollo on Saturn IB. Will take a look at the Saturn I boilderplate/Pegasus balancing with Invaderchaos soon.

Edited by Zorg
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qf9K0O5.jpg

Decided to make Delta 4000, ETS version.

52hyaCb.jpg

Beautiful separation!

CdXI7Wp.jpg

Well... it WAS... 

wJKByx2.jpg

pQdLeTt.jpg

Full album: Imgur: The magic of the Internet

So , Delta 4000, or specifically Delta 4120, has to launch like a Titan 3/4 where in the main engines aren't running until just before booster sep. It has a 2.33  TWR otherwise, which might be a little high. Without main engines it's a 1.43.

Edited by GoldForest
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16 hours ago, msp307 said:
hello, i downloaded the apollo-saturn-revamp folder, i have some problems. I can't find the "Saturn S-IV-2200 Cryogenic Fuel Tank" part in the game.

The "S-II Interstage" is extended.

The nodes have been moved on the "S-IVB Interstage".

Hope someone can help.

It looks like an installation issue. Did you:

  • make sure to delete the old Bluedog_DB folder before installing the apollo-saturn-revamp?
    • That's my guess for why the S4_AdapterTank isn't showing up. You can also try typing "S4" in the search bar, to double check.
  • Remove all files that may have come from BD_Extras? (The Realnames config should be fine, it just tells it to use a different set of lines for the name/description)
    • If you have the old Saturn Rescale patch, that might be the reason for the S-IVB interstage nodes being messed up
  • Make sure you have B9PartSwitch and the other dependencies installed?
    • that's my guess for the S-II Interstage being messed up. I think I can see all the different meshes active at once, which usually means B9 is missing
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8 hours ago, GoldForest said:

Decided to make Delta 4000, ETS version.

Beautiful separation!

Well... it WAS..

Full album: Imgur: The magic of the Internet

So , Delta 4000, or specifically Delta 4120, has to launch like a Titan 3/4 where in the main engines aren't running until just before booster sep. It has a 2.33  TWR otherwise, which might be a little high. Without main engines it's a 1.43.

Very nice build! I always thought the ETS Delta 4000 was constant 10ft diameter tho? It definitely made the engines hard to fit when I made a test part a year or two ago, though...

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1 hour ago, CobaltWolf said:

Very nice build! I always thought the ETS Delta 4000 was constant 10ft diameter tho? It definitely made the engines hard to fit when I made a test part a year or two ago, though...

Thanks! I'm not sure, it doesn't mention how wide it is just that it is a "WideBody Extended Long Tank Thor, core first stage for the Delta 4000," and going 2.5m was the only way I could fit all three engines comfortably. Maybe talk to E of Pi and see what they say about it since it was their project. I tried fitting them on a Titan core and it wasn't working out, a bit of clipping. Maybe if you made a dual engine RS-27/MB-3 on a single mount it would fit on a 1.875 platform.  There's also the 12 SRBs that need to be taken into consideration. 

I would love to see actual ETS Delta 4000/5000 parts if possible.  :) Delta should be Delta Blue after all, and not Atlas Copper Red. :D

Edit: Something I just thought of is the ETS Delta 4/5000 could do something like the real Delta 4000 and house most of the centaur in a fairing and have it hanging from the interstage like the Delta K stage. 

Edited by GoldForest
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20 hours ago, BNSF1995 said:

I found an issue with the boilerplate Apollo CSM:

It's way too heavy. The Saturn I can't make orbit with it unless I slap four UA1202 SRBs on. This may be because I'm not using the right engine config for the H-1s, but I'm playing career mode, and I haven't unlocked that upgrade yet.

Either the boilerplate CSM needs to be lighter, or the pre-1973 H-1s need to be buffed.

I've always been able to make it work with early engine configs. Which planet pack are you using? 

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7 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

It looks like an installation issue. Did you:

  • make sure to delete the old Bluedog_DB folder before installing the apollo-saturn-revamp?
    • That's my guess for why the S4_AdapterTank isn't showing up. You can also try typing "S4" in the search bar, to double check.
  • Remove all files that may have come from BD_Extras? (The Realnames config should be fine, it just tells it to use a different set of lines for the name/description)
    • If you have the old Saturn Rescale patch, that might be the reason for the S-IVB interstage nodes being messed up
  • Make sure you have B9PartSwitch and the other dependencies installed?
    • that's my guess for the S-II Interstage being messed up. I think I can see all the different meshes active at once, which usually means B9 is missing
Thanks for your help. it was because of the "Bluedog_DB" folder, had it twice. I had overlooked.
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6 hours ago, Invaderchaos said:

I've always been able to make it work with early engine configs. Which planet pack are you using? 

KSRSS (one of the mods in your signature) with the 2.5x rescale option and the Cape Canaveral pads made specifically for KSRSS. I use it because it's a happy medium between RSS and my desire for balanced parts.

Edited by BNSF1995
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25 minutes ago, BNSF1995 said:

KSRSS (one of the mods in your signature) with the 2.5x rescale option and the Cape Canaveral pads made specifically for KSRSS. I use it because it's a happy medium between RSS and my desire for balanced parts.

What's your mechjeb launch profile settings?

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These are my current settings:

Turn start when Altitude is 4.5km or Velocity reach 98.9 m/s
Turn end altitude: 76km
Final flight path angle: 0 degrees
Turn shape: 40%

Edited by BNSF1995
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14 minutes ago, BNSF1995 said:

These are my current settings:

Turn start when Altitude is 4.5km or Velocity reach 98.9 m/s
Turn end altitude: 76km
Final flight path angle: 0 degrees
Turn shape: 40%

40% is too low, you need to lob the second stage into orbit a little. Get more vertical height. Try around 60 to 75%

 

Also, @CobaltWolf I found something that makes the Saturn I literally unplayable! :mad: This gap is unthinkable! How could you, a professional modder, make such a mistake?! Oh the kerbality!... I'm just kidding of course, but thought I'd still bring it to your attention that there are gaps between the tanks. Every where the tanks meet has a gap like the one shown here. 

KoE1mgN.jpg

mhqLoJI.jpg

Ox1WDzQ.jpg

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TkqqdJs.jpg

"Yep. That's me. You're probably wondering how I got here. Well, let's go back to the beginning."

tbKyk0R.jpg

"That's me, just a few minutes ago. Saturn I SA-101."  

dlyPd6e.jpg

"Maiden flight of my kind... and me? Well..."

jrDwpO1.jpg

"I reached space, but my fate was not to stay there."

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7 hours ago, GoldForest said:

40% is too low, you need to lob the second stage into orbit a little. Get more vertical height. Try around 60 to 75%

Also, @CobaltWolf I found something that makes the Saturn I literally unplayable! :mad: This gap is unthinkable! How could you, a professional modder, make such a mistake?! Oh the kerbality!... I'm just kidding of course, but thought I'd still bring it to your attention that there are gaps between the tanks. Every where the tanks meet has a gap like the one shown here.

My day is ruined.

 

... j/k, thanks for the heads up. I thought I'd gone out of my way to ensure that wouldn't happen, since the pixel aliasing makes it way more obvious than it should be. It's an easy enough fix.

 

2 hours ago, Beccab said:

Launch of a small, Saturn IC based Orbital Transfer Vehicle 

That looks dope, great use of the new parts!

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5 hours ago, Beccab said:

Launch of a small, Saturn IC based Orbital Transfer Vehicle  
2Blw6XA.pngwuKgmAE.png

You uh... you forgot RCS

2 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

My day is ruined.

 

... j/k, thanks for the heads up. I thought I'd gone out of my way to ensure that wouldn't happen, since the pixel aliasing makes it way more obvious than it should be. It's an easy enough fix.

No problem, and yeah, I honestly only noticed it thanks the sun flare peeking through.

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On 3/29/2022 at 4:21 PM, CobaltWolf said:

Very nice build! I always thought the ETS Delta 4000 was constant 10ft diameter tho? It definitely made the engines hard to fit when I made a test part a year or two ago, though...

God, I would love parts to make that (and Shadow of Kolyma Minerva). There's not really anything between Titan and LDC besides Atlas V, which is pretty limited in terms of how it can be configured. Post-Saturn update maybe?

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1 hour ago, Entr8899 said:

Atlas V, which is pretty limited in terms of how it can be configured.

An Atlas V revamp would be nice after the Apollo-Saturn update. They look a little dated to say the least.

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