CobaltWolf

[1.4.X] Bluedog Design Bureau - Stockalike Saturn, Apollo, and more! (v1.4.2 "I numbered this update before KSP updated" 1/Feb/2018)

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I like the bottom pic more (painted black). Amazing work on the mod btw - just starting to get into making 1.875m space stations in Career :D

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cobalt's going live on twitch now. come join the fun fellas.

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Posted (edited)

Screenshots from tonight's stream. Most of the LDC Titan main core is in game, and is mostly done barring some tweaking and details to the textures. I need to do an audit of the paint tones for the whites and blacks across BDB, I'm worried they're not consistent. Currently for LDC we have the 3 fuel tanks, the upper stage engine mount, and the interstage that fits between them. Attach method is the same as the Saturn ones - indeed, I'm wondering if someone can get me some screenshots of this new stage on top of a Saturn 1? You can use the S-IV interstage.

In other news, the OGO-inspired core and solar panel should be in game as well. I, ah, forgot to make sure that the solar panel actually generates power... so, fair warning? :)

The Skylab/Spacelab screenshots were just taken for some eye candy, shoutout to @RocketPCGaming for raiding the stream! Y'all caught me a bit on the wrong foot as I was trying to clean things up and upload them so I could go to bed. I'll try to put on more of a show next time!

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Edited by CobaltWolf
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17 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

Screenshots from tonight's stream. Most of the LDC Titan main core is in game, and is mostly done barring some tweaking and details to the textures. I need to do an audit of the paint tones for the whites and blacks across BDB, I'm worried they're not consistent. Currently for LDC we have the 3 fuel tanks, the upper stage engine mount, and the interstage that fits between them. Attach method is the same as the Saturn ones - indeed, I'm wondering if someone can get me some screenshots of this new stage on top of a Saturn 1? You can use the S-IV interstage.

-snip-

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-snip-

It is probably a good idea to unify the white/black tones. Also a 3.125m launcher will be useful because for some reason fairing overhang irks me (i.e. a mobile lab with solar panels on the side).

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Posted (edited)
On 3/8/2018 at 6:09 PM, Saltshaker said:

It is probably a good idea to unify the white/black tones. Also a 3.125m launcher will be useful because for some reason fairing overhang irks me (i.e. a mobile lab with solar panels on the side).

Yeah I'm kind of annoyed actually because I'm not sure how they've managed to shift? Because I usually start a new texture sheet by sampling the colors of the old one. But they definitely have. In any case, I've wanted to do a small pass on the Saturn parts anyways to make sure they're up to BDB's current standards, considering they're kind of the poster child of the mod IMO.

Yeah I'm excited for this launcher, it can be easy to forget though that it's theoretically smaller than the Saturn 1C so you might not be able to do as much. But, it's neat so I'll let it slide. Off hand, the parts that I'd still like to make for this:

  • 3.125m nose cone, similar to the placeholder one in the first development pictures I posted of the stage.
  • 3.125m stack decoupler (not sure you'd ever need it? But, whatever)
  • Maybe an improved 3.125m fairing base? (would deprecate the current one which is rescaled)
  • 2.5m-in-length upper stage fuel tank (current parts are 10m, 7.5m, and 5m length)
  • First stage engine mount - not sure how I'll do this. Looking into the possibilities of doing it with B9 switching similar to NFLV, to get 1x to 5x engines available. Once the E-1 is added that will allow some pretty good scaling for mounting across our range of engines.
  • I'd like to do an interstage for connecting Centaur, that could also be used for Saturn C1. However, I hesitate to do a 'normal' 3.125m > 1.875m adapter, since that would preclude putting the upper tank on the S-IV stage. Maybe a new 2.5m > 1.875m adapter that is more appropriate?

Anyone have thoughts?

Edited by CobaltWolf

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2 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

Yeah I'm kind of annoyed actually because I'm not sure how they've managed to shift? Because I usually start a new texture sheet by sampling the colors of the old one. But they definitely have. In any case, I've wanted to do a small pass on the Saturn parts anyways to make sure they're up to BDB's current standards, considering they're kind of the poster child of the mod IMO.

Yeah I'm excited for this launcher, it can be easy to forget though that it's theoretically smaller than the Saturn 1C so you might not be able to do as much. But, it's neat so I'll let it slide. Off hand, the parts that I'd still like to make for this:

  • 3.125m nose cone, similar to the placeholder one in the first development pictures I posted of the stage.
  • 3.125m stack decoupler (not sure you'd ever need it? But, whatever)
  • Maybe an improved 3.125m fairing base? (would deprecate the current one which is rescaled)
  • 2.5m long upper stage fuel tank (current parts are 10m, 7.5m, and 5m length)
  • First stage engine mount - not sure how I'll do this. Looking into the possibilities of doing it with B9 switching similar to NFLV, to get 1x to 5x engines available. Once the E-1 is added that will allow some pretty good scaling for mounting across our range of engines.
  • I'd like to do an interstage for connecting Centaur, that could also be used for Saturn C1. However, I hesitate to do a 'normal' 3.125m > 1.875m adapter, since that would preclude putting the upper tank on the S-IV stage. Maybe a new 2.5m > 1.875m adapter that is more appropriate?

Anyone have thoughts?

A new ATV-like cargo vehicle would be nice, as well as an IUS.

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1 hour ago, hieywiey said:

A new ATV-like cargo vehicle would be nice, as well as an IUS.

Kanaloa /AARDV is that ATV like vehicle, and IUS is going to come from Pak's Cormorant Aeronology.

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1 minute ago, TimothyC said:

Kanaloa /AARDV is that ATV like vehicle, and IUS is going to come from Pak's Cormorant Aeronology.

I mean the IUS as used on Titan IV, not on the Space Shuttle.

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9 minutes ago, hieywiey said:

I mean the IUS as used on Titan IV, not on the Space Shuttle.

There is no functional difference between the IUSes used on Titan 34D, Titan IV (either version), and the Space Shuttle.

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I'm not sure if this has been asked/answered before, but how would one go about balancing BDB for use in a 6.4x rescale? I'd like to keep the diameters of the rockets the same and also use SMURFF, so I believe all that would need some balancing is TWR of the engines and possibly ISP to not entirely be outclassed by Contares/Tantares/RealEngines.

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11 minutes ago, Shushoni said:

I'm not sure if this has been asked/answered before, but how would one go about balancing BDB for use in a 6.4x rescale? I'd like to keep the diameters of the rockets the same and also use SMURFF, so I believe all that would need some balancing is TWR of the engines and possibly ISP to not entirely be outclassed by Contares/Tantares/RealEngines.

I believe the other author @Jso maintains custom SMURFF configs to ensure balance is maintained across rescales. :)

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18 minutes ago, Shushoni said:

I'm not sure if this has been asked/answered before, but how would one go about balancing BDB for use in a 6.4x rescale? I'd like to keep the diameters of the rockets the same and also use SMURFF, so I believe all that would need some balancing is TWR of the engines and possibly ISP to not entirely be outclassed by Contares/Tantares/RealEngines.

Did you try it?. If you're using SigmaDimensions we read the rescale value and make the adjustments for anything up to a 6.4x rescale. The Saturn rescale in extras is recommended for 6.4x since our undersized model doesn't hold enough fuel for the job.

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I have been running 6.4x for a little bit now, and I often find that the BDB engines are much less useful than others that I have in my (rather large) mod list. I didn't know that about the Saturn rescale, I'll load that up and see how it works for me. Thanks.

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5 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

 

  • 3.125m nose cone, similar to the placeholder one in the first development pictures I posted of the stage.
  • 3.125m stack decoupler (not sure you'd ever need it? But, whatever)
  • Maybe an improved 3.125m fairing base? (would deprecate the current one which is rescaled)
  • 2.5m long upper stage fuel tank (current parts are 10m, 7.5m, and 5m length)
  • First stage engine mount - not sure how I'll do this. Looking into the possibilities of doing it with B9 switching similar to NFLV, to get 1x to 5x engines available. Once the E-1 is added that will allow some pretty good scaling for mounting across our range of engines.
  • I'd like to do an interstage for connecting Centaur, that could also be used for Saturn C1. However, I hesitate to do a 'normal' 3.125m > 1.875m adapter, since that would preclude putting the upper tank on the S-IV stage. Maybe a new 2.5m > 1.875m adapter that is more appropriate?

Anyone have thoughts?

  • 3.125m nose cone - Good idea, could make Delta Heavy-like rockets (3 cores). Also, while you're at it make a 3.75m nosecone for Saturn Sarnus Multibody
  • 3.125m stack decoupler - Check
  • Improved 3.125m fairing base - Check
  • 2.5m long upper stage fuel tank - Check
  • First stage engine mount - Good idea to have a one-part-multiple-types mount like the NFLV ones
  • Interstage for connecting Centaur that could also be used for Saturn C1 - Maybe a single part that's switchable from 3.125->1.875 or 2.5->1.875?

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

Yeah I'm kind of annoyed actually because I'm not sure how they've managed to shift? Because I usually start a new texture sheet by sampling the colors of the old one. But they definitely have. In any case, I've wanted to do a small pass on the Saturn parts anyways to make sure they're up to BDB's current standards, considering they're kind of the poster child of the mod IMO.

 

Cobalt,  Possibly a Contaminant due to the advanced Layering?   IE could a layer have been crushed into the base layer that could alter the colors?    Also, could it be an issue with different settings in Photoshop between one session and a next?   Totally WAGing here but they are thoughts of two possibilities.    Maybe for future section off a small portion of each of your Textures for "Reference color swatches?"  Save a Blank texture with these references and start each new texture sheet from THAT sheet?  IDK.  As we have discussed outside of the forum... I am all left feet when it comes to the texturing side of things.

 

10 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:
  • I'd like to do an interstage for connecting Centaur, that could also be used for Saturn C1. However, I hesitate to do a 'normal' 3.125m > 1.875m adapter, since that would preclude putting the upper tank on the S-IV stage. Maybe a new 2.5m > 1.875m adapter that is more appropriate?

Anyone have thoughts?

So good-news / less good-news.   The Saturn rockets were to fly with Big Centaur (canceled early) Centaur, and Baby Centaur (canceled late) all under a single unified fairing that was slightly wider in diameter than the narrowest point on S-IV.    So call it a Fairing that boat-tails out from 2.5m to say 2.65m and then vertical sidewalls.   But please remember S-IV was a place-holder for the definitive S-IVB EARLY on in Saturn's program.  It was a dead end even before it entered production....  The only reason it was flown at all is because the J-2 was behind development...   Had NASA chosen the LR-87... well I doubt the Pegasus satellite experiments would have been based upon the S-IV stage then.

So in the end the Centaur 1.875m Inter-stage is plenty for most basic Centaur packages...   Centaur (any variant) on both Titan (any variant) and Saturn (Any variant) would fly under the fairings completely with no exposed skin.  It is only Atlas where the Centaur is exposed.

 

Edited by Pappystein

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Posted (edited)

Maybe cover alternate early Saturn parts? (Super-Jupiter/Juno stuff with 3.125m parts), like:

  • Upper stage multi-engine cluster to emulate Saturn A-2/B-1
  • Maybe even parts to emulate the original S-II stage? I mean, the S-II for Saturn C-2 or other non-C-5 based designs.
  • Or for something a bit out there, maybe even parts to emulate SASSTO? http://www.astronautix.com/s/sassto.html
Edited by T-10a

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Everyone,   I am just as excited as the rest of you but I think you are all miss-interpreting @CobaltWolf query above.  He was asking for opinions on the bullet points in his own post.  Specifically about Centaur Interstage and useability RE Titan, Titan-LDC and Saturn.   Not what each of us wants to see in his mod.

 

 

 

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whoops :(

ye, I definitely agree on implementing the 2.5-1.875m interstage part for Centaur.

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Posted (edited)

@CobaltWolf disregard this please...sorry

I figured it out

EDIT: BTW your work is incredible!

Edited by viperwolf

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On 3.3.2018 at 5:13 PM, DiscoSlelge said:

Just sayin', meme credit @CobaltWolf

the pic

What is OMSK? Just curious...

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