CobaltWolf

[1.6.X] Bluedog Design Bureau - Stockalike Saturn, Apollo, and more! (v1.5.2 "Бруно" 8/Feb/2019)

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2 minutes ago, Irenicus said:

Hi. tnx for this mod.

I am using RSS|RO

But, say me, please: I am build rocket/ Using for this your arcraft.cfg files. It is gemimi-titan, But, after finish I see delta^ it is near 7000m/s. It is very low delta for orbit in RSS.  How fix that?

 

<img>https://b.radikal.ru/b27/1901/e5/b916fa72e713.png</img>

 

 

These parts are balanced for Stock scale/2.5x. RSS is close to 10x stock scale. RO configs for this are few and far between if I remember right.

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Posted (edited)

So, this mod not supporting full  RSS size? :(

 

Edited by Irenicus

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15 minutes ago, Irenicus said:

So, this mod not supporting full  RSS size? :(

 

Correct, the parts are designed for 2.5x scale, not RSS.

Making RSS/RO configs for all the BDB parts would be a massive task, and so far no one has been willing to do it.

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16 minutes ago, Irenicus said:

So, this mod not supporting full  RSS size? :(

 

No, but thats the wonderful thing about RO. If you find the real name of a part, you can just look up the IRL stats. Fuel tanks will be a bit harder, but the Rocket Equation can help you there.

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I get a single exception while loading up BDB version 1.16 on KSP 1.6.0.  No other mods installed, just any BDB dependencies.

[LOG 20:21:13.534] DragCubeSystem: Creating drag cubes for part 'bluedog.Saturn.VFB.MissionModule'
[EXC 20:21:13.536] IndexOutOfRangeException: Array index is out of range.
    ModuleAnimateGeneric.AssumeDragCubePosition (System.String name)
    DragCubeSystem+<RenderDragCubes>c__Iterator1.MoveNext ()
    UnityEngine.SetupCoroutine.InvokeMoveNext (IEnumerator enumerator, IntPtr returnValueAddress)
    UnityEngine.MonoBehaviour:StartCoroutine(IEnumerator)
    <RenderDragCubesCoroutine>c__Iterator0:MoveNext()
    UnityEngine.MonoBehaviour:StartCoroutine(IEnumerator)
    <SetupDragCubeCoroutine>c__Iterator2:MoveNext()
    UnityEngine.MonoBehaviour:StartCoroutine(IEnumerator)
    <CompileParts>c__Iterator1:MoveNext()
    UnityEngine.SetupCoroutine:InvokeMoveNext(IEnumerator, IntPtr)

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12 hours ago, Kerbex said:

I get a single exception while loading up BDB version 1.16 on KSP 1.6.0.  No other mods installed, just any BDB dependencies.

[LOG 20:21:13.534] DragCubeSystem: Creating drag cubes for part 'bluedog.Saturn.VFB.MissionModule'
[EXC 20:21:13.536] IndexOutOfRangeException: Array index is out of range.
    ModuleAnimateGeneric.AssumeDragCubePosition (System.String name)
    DragCubeSystem+<RenderDragCubes>c__Iterator1.MoveNext ()
    UnityEngine.SetupCoroutine.InvokeMoveNext (IEnumerator enumerator, IntPtr returnValueAddress)
    UnityEngine.MonoBehaviour:StartCoroutine(IEnumerator)
    <RenderDragCubesCoroutine>c__Iterator0:MoveNext()
    UnityEngine.MonoBehaviour:StartCoroutine(IEnumerator)
    <SetupDragCubeCoroutine>c__Iterator2:MoveNext()
    UnityEngine.MonoBehaviour:StartCoroutine(IEnumerator)
    <CompileParts>c__Iterator1:MoveNext()
    UnityEngine.SetupCoroutine:InvokeMoveNext(IEnumerator, IntPtr)

Took me a second to remember - this has already been taken care of and will be in the new release. I named the window animation wrong in the cfg file. :)

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So, still trying to find time at home to finish up the current update - not a ton left to do, but what is there is generally time consuming polishing/bug fixing/corrections. Home life has been very busy for me lately - trying to remember the last evening that wasn't basically set aside for cleaning or buying more crap to shove in there.

But, I have already been hard at work at my office getting stuff together for the next update. As I've said before, it's going to be a fairly comprehensive Titan update. I was thinking, maybe people want to see some previews of the models I've been working on? :)

Titan IIIC Stack

Mbw1ckT.png

UA1205, UA1207, SRMU

1TnshJw.png

SRMU Aft detail

Cw2xH2q.png

Inline SRMU, inline single segment SRMU, inline half-segment SRMU (For the Alliant ATK EELV proposal)

gmazOdl.png

ACS block for Titan 23G and Transtage

6jgCybS.png

Titan 2 upper stage in the 23G configuration, with the ACS blocks. Please remember that, as usual, most of the detail in the tanks comes from the texture.

pxbh9b9.png

New Transtage. I think the engines/tanks are going to be combined into a single part this time around, keeping it more like the real life 'drop in upper stage' it served as.

sq5WnIM.png

LR-91-AJ5/7 (Titan 2 second stage engine), which will have accurate roll control via the rotating exhaust nozzle. Will have a switcher between shrouded and non shrouded.

bG30fYJ.png

LR-91-AJ3 (Titan 1 second stage)

ztSWxme.png

Small experiment - I might be able to mesh switch to get the LR-91-AJ3 working in 1.875m stacks

4rm54NG.png

LR-87-AJ5/7 (Titan 2 first stage engine)

SZ8uYXZ.png

LR-87-AJ11 (Titan IV first stage engine)

BuKFrC4.png

LR-87-AJ11 again (I haven't given any thought to the Titan IV tanks.

43Ysilj.png

 

Also, reminder that the IUS is fully modeled and will be included in this update, since it was also used as a Titan upper stage.

MUodW8J.png3tWfeVa.pngjQhxRCP.png2m5FwLc.png

 

 

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Very nice.  I am no rocket expert and know very little of the history, but after installing BDB over Christmas to have a quick play, I ended up losing many hours of sleep rebuilding every rocket and learning all about the different variations, then putting ridiculously optimistic payloads on them and developing some comprehensive lithobraking skills.

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25 minutes ago, Friznit said:

Very nice.  I am no rocket expert and know very little of the history, but after installing BDB over Christmas to have a quick play, I ended up losing many hours of sleep rebuilding every rocket and learning all about the different variations, then putting ridiculously optimistic payloads on them and developing some comprehensive lithobraking skills.

Yeah, I honestly had very little knowledge either when I started this mod! It started as just "there's a few parts from FASA that I wish were more stockalike" and next thing I know I have bookshelves full of space history volumes and gigabytes of reference photos... :) The more I learn the more I want to make.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

bG30fYJ.png

LR-91-AJ3 (Titan 1 second stage)

ztSWxme.png

Small experiment - I might be able to mesh switch to get the LR-91-AJ3 working in 1.875m stacks

I like the overall concept but the nozzle of the LR91-AJ 3 is definitely an inverted wine cup and not a nozzle. On the part you must probably work again please.

Photo391343.jpg

Edited by hraban
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11 minutes ago, hraban said:

I like the overall concept but the nozzle of the LR91-AJ 3 is definitely an inverted wine cup and not a nozzle. On the part you must probably work again please.

Thank you for that image, I didn't have it! The first engine you showed was a LR-91-AJ5 (Did you get confused? The text corresponds with the image below, not the image above) which, as far as I can tell, did have a really weirdly shaped nozzle like that. The LR-91-AJ3 DOES have the correct shape for the upper thrust chamber (that straight, conical shape instead of being shaped like the LR-87 thrust chamber) but you're absolutely right, the shaping could use some more work.

By the way, that picture helped solve another issue - it has visible gimbal hardware! :) Most of the pictures I have of the LR-91s don't seem to have the gimbal arms anymore. I know that it's very likely that the LR-91-AJ3 is different in that respect, but honestly as long as the thrust chamber / nozzles look right, I'd like to be able to reuse as much of the turbopump / other hardware models and textures as possible.

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1 hour ago, CobaltWolf said:

Thank you for that image, I didn't have it! The first engine you showed was a LR-91-AJ5 (Did you get confused? The text corresponds with the image below, not the image above) which, as far as I can tell, did have a really weirdly shaped nozzle like that. The LR-91-AJ3 DOES have the correct shape for the upper thrust chamber (that straight, conical shape instead of being shaped like the LR-87 thrust chamber) but you're absolutely right, the shaping could use some more work.

By the way, that picture helped solve another issue - it has visible gimbal hardware! :) Most of the pictures I have of the LR-91s don't seem to have the gimbal arms anymore. I know that it's very likely that the LR-91-AJ3 is different in that respect, but honestly as long as the thrust chamber / nozzles look right, I'd like to be able to reuse as much of the turbopump / other hardware models and textures as possible.

Yeah, I got a little lost in the lyrics. :D However, I find that the lower nozzle section of the LR-91-AJ5/7 is completely wrongly dimensioned. Maybe this is also a viewing problem from an unfavourable perspective. Here is a link to N. Brügge and corresponding photos.

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2 minutes ago, hraban said:

Yeah, I got a little lost in the lyrics. :D However, I find that the lower nozzle section of the LR-91-AJ5/7 is completely wrongly dimensioned. Maybe this is also a viewing problem from an unfavourable perspective. Here is a link to N. Brügge and corresponding photos.

I've had trouble finding multiple sources that agree on the size and shape of the LR-91-AJ5/7 bell. I know the AJ11 (Titan IV) was the longer, narrower (?) orange bell. I can't know for sure if Norbert (I love his website by the way, very useful! One of the first places I check for material) correctly identified the engines in his photos. This was the best source I had for the LR-91-AJ5:

http://www.ninfinger.org/models/titan_II/tii_dwgs/tii_dwgs.html

The problem is I can't find good images of an engine that I know for sure is an AJ5/AJ7. I've run into a lot of instances where engine exhibits, even in museums, are horribly mislabeled. The Titan engines in particular have issues.

4HUuLPb.png

N2h1JaL.png

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Yeah, the -5 and later LR-91s had that odd external shape due to the ablative skirt needing extra material thickness. I'm going through  my copy of Chuck Penson's "The Titan II Handbook" (ISBN 978-0-615-21241-8, if anyone is interested in tracking down their own copy), and it shows a slightly different view than your first pic, but it's largely the same. There's also an accompanying photo in the Handbook which backs up the drawings and does show that "goblet" shape.

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5 hours ago, hraban said:

Yeah, I got a little lost in the lyrics. :D However, I find that the lower nozzle section of the LR-91-AJ5/7 is completely wrongly dimensioned. Maybe this is also a viewing problem from an unfavourable perspective. Here is a link to N. Brügge and corresponding photos.

Actually some of the shape issues you are seeing is the Ablative blanket was applied differently (in differeing thicknesses) throughout the Life of the LR-87/LR-91 family.  If you look closely, both at CobaltWolf's models as well as the pictures there is a sharp lip at the end of the Nozzle.  That is the ACTUAL max diameter of the Bell.  All that extra Chonky (did I spell that right?) look is straight from the use of thick ablative engine Blankets AKA Batting.   The Aerojet LR-87/91 engines ended up with some of the nicest Blankets of all the 1st/2nd/3rd generation tube walled Rocket engines.    But still it is something that burns off QUICKLY in flight.

 

4 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

N2h1JaL.png

Bottom left corner shows the ACTUAL bell shape (dashed lines) and the Batting applied for thermal protection of the engine bell.   Please note that that dashed line is for the EXTERIOR of the Bell not the Interior.

Latter LR-91-AJ-11 or AJ-11A (unsure) look like this with the batting installed.:

 

LR91-AJ-11_rocket_engine.jpg

Please note the LR-87-AJ-11A in the background. (Visually the LR-87-AJ-11A seems to have those white conic exit nozzles for the Turbopump exhaust... I THINK and would love confirmation on that)   The Round "spots" on the Engine bell are burn through patch to cause a Star like burn-through pattern to increase the radiated cooling effect of the batting.

 

So to follow up on what Cobaltwolf was saying about incorrectly labeled space objects in museums.   Here is another AIR and SPACE blunder

https://airandspace.si.edu/collection-objects/upper-stage-launch-vehicle-agena-b

The Caption calls it an Aerobee Nosecone... so about 15 inches in Diameter.   The article attached and the photograph are both of an Agena-B Upper stage with an empty payload fairing.  Agena B is ~65" in Diameter....   Or about 4.3* bigger.

 

 

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Having handled that exact LR-91 engine, I can say with absolute certainty that they're both -11s that were built for Titan IVs, but never got assigned to a flight vehicle. They're from the collection at the Aerospace Museum of California. ;)

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Okay, the new Delta-K engine plumes....

@JadeOfMaar, you're a GOD.

4IyTOr8.png

yFeNBlM.png

And, miracle of miracles, my computer actually was running real time during the burn, which is saying something!

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16 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

So, still trying to find time at home to finish up the current update - not a ton left to do, but what is there is generally time consuming polishing/bug fixing/corrections. Home life has been very busy for me lately - trying to remember the last evening that wasn't basically set aside for cleaning or buying more crap to shove in there.

But, I have already been hard at work at my office getting stuff together for the next update. As I've said before, it's going to be a fairly comprehensive Titan update. I was thinking, maybe people want to see some previews of the models I've been working on? :)

 

Titan 2 upper stage in the 23G configuration, with the ACS blocks. Please remember that, as usual, most of the detail in the tanks comes from the texture.

pxbh9b9.png

 

Wait what? was the 23G's upper stage restartable with these ACS blocks?

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6 hours ago, Kerbal01 said:

Wait what? was the 23G's upper stage restartable with these ACS blocks?

From Ed Kyle:

Quote

After Challenger, 14 recently decommissioned Titan 2 ICBMs were refurbished for use as orbital launch vehicles. More accurately, 14 sets of Titan 2 stages were harvested from the roughly 55 remaining missiles. Titan 2 modifications included replacement of the reentry vehicle adapter atop the second stage with a payload fairing adapter, the addition of a new 10 foot diameter payload fairing, refurbishment and upgrading of the inertial guidance system, and refurbishment of the first and second stage engines. The missile's solid motor vernier was replaced by four solid spacecraft separation retro motors.

A blowdown hydrazine monopropellant attitude control system (ACS) kit, similar to the Transtage system, was added to the second stage between-tank section. It was used on some launches to provide an orbit-insertion impulse at first apogee. On at least seven flights, Star 37-series apogee kick motors provided the insertion burn after the first two Titan stages performed a suborbital ascent. On these missions, the spacecraft (Landsat, DMSP, NOAA) provided attitude control during the coast and velocity trim after the solid motor burn.

Space Launch Complex 4 West at Vandenberg AFB, finished with Titan 34B in 1987, was modified to support launches. The first three launches during 1988-92 were classified. These are believed to have been P-11 5100 series Lockheed-built ELNIT satellites. Two ended up in 790 km x 85 deg orbits, but the second, launched September 6, 1989, failed to raise its orbit and decayed after one week. These Titans likely used ACS to inject satellites into roughly 250 x 800 km insertion orbits.

 

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Those titan SRB's look amazing!!! The separation motors looks miles beyond the original models. 

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13 hours ago, Bjalfi said:

Those titan SRB's look amazing!!! The separation motors looks miles beyond the original models. 

Yup, I'm excited to make them much more accurately this time around. :)

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On 1/8/2019 at 11:10 PM, MaverickSawyer said:

Having handled that exact LR-91 engine, I can say with absolute certainty that they're both -11s that were built for Titan IVs, but never got assigned to a flight vehicle. They're from the collection at the Aerospace Museum of California. ;)

@MaverickSawyer do you know if they are AJ-11s or AJ-11As?

 

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9 minutes ago, Pappystein said:

@MaverickSawyer do you know if they are AJ-11s or AJ-11As?

 

Follow up too - is there a difference between a YLR-87 and an LR-87?

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51 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

Follow up too - is there a difference between a YLR-87 and an LR-87?

Which YLR-87?   Were there not 5 different YLRs?   I thought there were YLRs for the first Titan 1 as well as the First Titan 2....  And I THINK the Hydrolox development was funded as a YLR as well.

 

For those not in the know...  A Letter X proceeding an Aircraft or Engine designation means Prototype, not ready for service but will allow basic testing to proceed.   A Y in front of the Aircraft or Engine Designation means SERVICE Prototype.   IE it is designed for actual service use....   Notable Exceptions are the YF-22 and YF-23 and later where the "Service" Prototypes were anything but conceptual work (IE not the real aircraft.)  Both of the YF-22 and YF-23 should have been given X-Plane (EG X-32) numbers as they are only Visually similar to the real aircraft that they were to represent.      If you want more details I highly suggest spending some time on :

Best US Designation rules and listing website

Edited by Pappystein

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