[1.12.5] Bluedog Design Bureau - Stockalike Saturn, Apollo, and more! (v1.13.0 "Забытый" 13/Aug/2023)

[CobaltWolf]

3 hours ago, A1Ch1 said:

A few illustrations to clarify:

The secondary engines you're referring to are the nitrogen ACS thrusters, and the part that necks down is the aft section? Or the tapered adapter starting at Station 384.0?

Pretty much the whole thing to the right of station 384. The issue is that Agena went through many different revisions. The style most KSP players are familiar with is the ATV, or Agena Target Vehicle. But I'm trying to make the Agena Upper stage, which is fairly distinct from the ATV. Or rather, the ATV looks a bit different from a normal Agena upper stage. I'd like to take a moment to add that the ATV is not a priority for BDB, and parts such as the antenna and docking interface won't be provided. At least no in the first release. For some reason the Agena has been something I can't wrap my head around since the very beginning of the mod. I have tried several times to design it with no success. I think a lot of time this weekend will be spent with just a pen and paper, drawing it over an over again.

2 hours ago, fs10inator said:

Titan IV parts, you say?

Could this mean that later, I'd be saying goodbye to NovaPunch in terms of SRMUs?

Well I'd hope so!

EDIT: Ooooh, what could it be? Hint: It's not for BDB! Super mega bonus for anyone that can recognize it.

Edited December 11, 2015 by CobaltWolf

[curtquarquesso]

4 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

Darnit @curtquarquesso xD Now look what you've done! Am I expected to make Angara now?

No, I annoyed you because you're good at 1) scaling and 2) your google-fu is better than mine. I am having trouble figuring out how to break up Agena. I'd like to enable the maximum number of configurations with the smallest number of parts. The problem isn't so much the tanks but the engine section - the best way to break it down. My initial thought was to have the secondary mono engines be radially attached to the last section of the fuel tank (the part that necks down), but that's not a fuel tank. It's basically the body around the engine. So if I make the whole thing (including the adapter section to the main tank) the engine, then that at least solves the issue of the fairing, since then I can make a full length one to cover the whole engine section. But then what do I do for the secondary engines?

...

 

That explains, well, a lot... I can read, I swear.

Let's try this again. Thank goodness you're not making Angara. I was so confused. 

I see what you mean about the engine. I would make the engine bell, and the surrounding structure all one part, as you've probably already settled on. I would definitely make the nitrogen tanks surface attach parts, as well as smaller thrusters. Now, on Agena, the main engine was UDMH fueled, and the thrusters were compressed nitrogen fueled. You can either make both systems run on monopropellant, or you can make the main engine run on LFO, and the attitude thrusters run on MonoProp. Your call. Either would probably be fine. 

As for the rest of it, I'd keep it simple. The main structure should be comprised of an ASAS capable probe core, a reaction wheel, then the fuel tank, then the tapered structural piece, then your main engine.

Best diagrams to work with were easily google-able.

 

Spoiler

 

Edited December 11, 2015 by curtquarquesso

[curtquarquesso]

Additional info in lieu of further comments I missed:

Here, my patented annotated image all dimensioned out:

I wouldn't be too concerned with differentiating the Agena variants too much. The Agena-D flew the most, and accomplished the most. Mariner, Gemini, Ranger, you name it. 

But, if you want, here's a useful graphic showing the differences and engine changes. 

[A1Ch1]

Keep in mind that that's a schematic of the Agena Target Vehicle, a standard Agena D wouldn't include the part labeled Probe; the avionics would be in the part labeled Rxn Wheels. Combining them doesn't change much though:

Content: Agena D, detail Agena Telemetry Module + Aft Section

Spoiler

 

 

The standard Agena D featured an open truss in the aft section, to which mission specific modules could be attached, such as the ATV's Secondary Propulsion System, solar panels, or subsatellites. I don't know how much KSP would like the collision mesh though:

Content: subsatellites and other uses for Aft section truss

Spoiler

 

 

One nitrogen tank was standard, additional tanks could be added if needed so making them surface-attachable makes sense, or one could just be included in the truss. The engine ran on UDMH and IRFNA, so it'd be standard liquid fuel/oxidizer, with monopropellant for the nitrogen ACS.

Content: ACS diagrams aka three-way valves

Spoiler

 

 

 

Edited December 11, 2015 by A1Ch1

[A1Ch1]

8 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

EDIT: Ooooh, what could it be? Hint: It's not for BDB! Super mega bonus for anyone that can recognize it.

That looks familiar... can't really tell if it's angled but looks like it could be.

Edited December 11, 2015 by A1Ch1
because I want a "preview post" button

[CobaltWolf]

Thank you so much @A1Ch1 and @curtquarquesso you've certainly given me a lot to think about! I'll be cooped up inside all day tomorrow watching my friend's cat so it seems like I have my work cut out for me.

7 hours ago, A1Ch1 said:

That looks familiar... can't really tell if it's angled but looks like it could be.

DING DING DING DING
But what could it mean?!?

[davidy12]

$$$$$

ALSEP!!!/Retroreflector!!!

[CobaltWolf]

15 minutes ago, davidy12 said:

$$$$$

ALSEP!!!/Retroreflector!!!

Did somebody say retroreflector?

Again, to reiterate, this is not for BDB. It's something I've been working on for a while with someone else. We are hoping to get a release out in time for vacation. Keep an eye out, it will be added to my signature.

[davidy12]

OMG OMG OMG!!!!

I'm in love!!! Will these be KIS/KAS compatible?

Edited December 11, 2015 by davidy12

[CobaltWolf]

1 hour ago, davidy12 said:

OMG OMG OMG!!!!

I'm in love!!! Will these be KIS/KAS compatible?

Yes.

[burntartichoke]

First off, I want to say how great this mod is. I love the modeling and details, it really is top notch work. The one criticism/request I have (which hopefully is constructive) would be to do higher resolution textures which were mentioned before.  

On 12/6/2015, 5:47:12, CobaltWolf said:

the textures are a touch low res, but it's the best I could do without moving up to the next size of texture, which I wasn't comfortable doing. Who knows. Maybe it will be worth doing later. It wouldn't be too hard, since all I'd have to redraw are the panel edges.

You have done what looks like an amazing job of reusing mapping so the increase in overhead would be minimal plus with the looming 1.1 update, mod size should be a thing of the past. It really would be the icing on the cake as everything looks great from a far but gets a little fuzzy up close. It would just fit in that much better with the Porkjet art style.

Thanks for all the hard work, and I cant wait to see what comes next!

[fs10inator]

On 12/11/2015, 2:59:05, CobaltWolf said:

Well I'd hope so!

First of all, I'd love to see the Titan IVA SRM and IVB SRMU included in the package.

Secondly, I'm struggling on how I could get the SRB burn-out effect kinda similar to real life, or otherwise in Bob Fitch's STS-88 video.
Heck, I don't even know how to implement thrust curves like in the latter.

Edited December 12, 2015 by fs10inator

[A1Ch1]

3 hours ago, fs10inator said:

First of all, I'd love to see the Titan IVA SRM and IVB SRMU included in the package.

Secondly, I'm struggling on how I could get the SRB burn-out effect kinda similar to real life, or otherwise in Bob Fitch's STS-88 video.
Heck, I don't even know how to implement thrust curves like in the latter.

RealFuels supports thrust curves. I created a spreadsheet to generate curves for KSP, here is one based on the SRMU.

 

[fs10inator]

2 minutes ago, A1Ch1 said:

RealFuels supports thrust curves. I created a spreadsheet to generate curves for KSP, here is one based on the SRMU.

 

I'll save this one... just lemme throw my frustration out the window.

Thanks!

Also, I remember you do recreations of IRL rockets, too. The next Mendahu, I suppose?

[Beale]

Oh baby.

That must be the cutest thing ever.

[CobaltWolf]

3 hours ago, Beale said:

Oh baby.

That must be the cutest thing ever.

xD

EDIT3: Bringing this as close to the top as I can. As Curt stated higher up in the thread, the Agena does indeed scale to .9375m. What would people prefer: .9375m Agena, or 1.25m Agena? I personally would prefer 1.25m, if only for gameplay - BDB doesn't have a 1.25m upper stage yet. But it could also expand the .9375m parts... I'm modeling it at 1.25m, and it can easily be scaled down later.

EDIT: Forgot to make the actual post I came here for...

inhales deeply Ahhhhh a blank canvas. Now I know how Bob Ross feels. What shall we create today?

EDIT: If this little nerd ever lets me get to work...

EDIT4: Agena D model is coming along well I think.

EDIT: Wheee~~~

Edited December 12, 2015 by CobaltWolf

[AlbertKermin]

1 hour ago, CobaltWolf said:

EDIT: If this little nerd ever lets me get to work...

 

I feel your pain.  

[CobaltWolf]

It's not even my cat. I don't like cats. I got conned...

Anyways, it looks like I'll only have another hour or two to work today. The good news is 1) the worst part is behind us I think, because 2) This is what I have so far.

Their textures aren't quite done, but I think I'm going to move to other pieces right now. It looks like what's left is:

-Secondary engine module (modeled, needs UVmap and texture)
-Tanks, 3 (4?) sizes.
-Probe core

I also graduated up to working with 1024 texture maps so there is plenty of room left for, for example, an antenna, or the ATV docking module. Let me know if there are any other Agena things you'd like to see.
The engines wound up being a bit long, so they'll have some LFO in addition to monopropellant. In terms of balancing, I was thinking of making them fairly expensive, seeing as Agena is a pretty capable upper stage, with it's own RCS, probe core, etc.

Edited December 12, 2015 by CobaltWolf

[CobaltWolf]

20 hours ago, burntartichoke said:

First off, I want to say how great this mod is. I love the modeling and details, it really is top notch work. The one criticism/request I have (which hopefully is constructive) would be to do higher resolution textures which were mentioned before.  

You have done what looks like an amazing job of reusing mapping so the increase in overhead would be minimal plus with the looming 1.1 update, mod size should be a thing of the past. It really would be the icing on the cake as everything looks great from a far but gets a little fuzzy up close. It would just fit in that much better with the Porkjet art style.

Thanks for all the hard work, and I cant wait to see what comes next!

I forgot to reply to this. Do you have any particular parts that have that issue? Many of the launcher parts were 'low res' because I didn't have time (read: forgot to get around to it before release) to add detail to the textures. The next release has tweaks or complete reduxes done on most if not all of the launcher textures.

I'd also like to point out that 64bit does not give mod authors a free pass with their mod size. Because KSP will still not have a proper asset loader, the textures still have to be loaded in on startup. So keeping the overall size of the mod down will help keep load times down. At the end of the day, I am going for the resolution around that of stock parts. Most of the parts in the mod are about where I want them, the new Atlas V being a big exception that I will redo after I finish this update. I will definitely look into increased texture size in the future (for example, on the new Agena I am using a 1024 texture map for something I previously would have used two 512 textures before)

[burntartichoke]

To be honest, going back and looking today they somehow seem better than when I made that comment, so i am sorry for the comment. I would say the ones that stand out to me the most for having visible lower resolution textures are the brun tanks and fairing. It sounds like the next release will sideline this all together. The Agena screens you posted look beautiful by the way! I can't wait to try that out in game.

And yes it would be bad if all the mods were GB+ with how the game currently handles it but it does allow for a bit more leeway knowing that the 32bit ram hard limit will not be there. The drive for greater texture size is a hold over from my previous life doing texture art for FSX when I would routinely work in 2048 or 4096, its a habit that is not suitable for every game lol. KSP is the first time in a while that I worked on what felt like such a small canvas.

[CobaltWolf]

3 hours ago, burntartichoke said:

To be honest, going back and looking today they somehow seem better than when I made that comment, so i am sorry for the comment. I would say the ones that stand out to me the most for having visible lower resolution textures are the brun tanks and fairing. It sounds like the next release will sideline this all together. The Agena screens you posted look beautiful by the way! I can't wait to try that out in game.

And yes it would be bad if all the mods were GB+ with how the game currently handles it but it does allow for a bit more leeway knowing that the 32bit ram hard limit will not be there. The drive for greater texture size is a hold over from my previous life doing texture art for FSX when I would routinely work in 2048 or 4096, its a habit that is not suitable for every game lol. KSP is the first time in a while that I worked on what felt like such a small canvas.

Don't apologize! It was certainly a worthy critique, especially because I am particularly stingy with my textures. The Brun tanks/fairing aren't exactly low res, it's more that I didn't want to include any stripes on them. I haven't touched them but I can look at them after the upcoming release. While there certainly is a bit more leeway with 64bit, memory/size is still something I'm leery of. Perhaps some day soon I'll be able to drop the habit.

Also, I have a general question for the peanut gallery. I put a lot of time into BDB, but it looks like it may not be enough. Between that and SEP (see sig) I don't think I'll be able to get everything done for this update before Christmas. I'll need another day or two of work to finish Agena, and another day or so after that to clean up the rest of the things laying around in order to push out a release. My question is: Should I try and package a new release before Christmas (basically move a bunch of things planned for this release, that I haven't had time to start on) so y'all have a new one to play over vacation, or should I just keep doing what I'm doing and release once the 'todo' list is done. This list is only things that still have to be done for the update. It isn't inclusive, and is missing things such as giving all the parts names and descriptions, and balancing them, both of which are required for nearly all the WIP parts. It currently contains:

Quote

FOR NEXT RELEASE:

-Add BDB as agency
-RP configs for LO engine, 3way RCS, Agena parts

Probe stuff:
    -Lunar Orbiter engine - finish textures
     -Fix collider
    -3way RCS - finish textures
***    -Explorer 7 core
***    -Folding magnetometer
    -Refine Explorer Texture
***   -Round battery base with .3m flat bottom to match Pioneer core
    
Rocket stuff:
    REDUX:
 ***       - Centaur interstages (new textures, models)
 ***       - Centaur tank textures
 ***      - Atlas tank textures

    -Fix the fairings on AJ10s
***    -1.25m decoupler
***    -1.875m > 1.5m adapter
***    -1.5m fairing base
***    -Small fin for Vanguard / Thor
    
    -Finish Mercury parts
        -Add Bloeting IVA to mercury
        -Fix parachute
***    -Finish Karrot parts
***        -Dedicated parachute?
***    -Emissives for windows on Gemini, Mercury
    
    -Finish Agena parts
     -Fuel tanks, 3 sizes
     -Probe core
     -Finish engine textures
     -Finish secondary thrusters

The starred items are items that tentatively would be cut from this update and pushed to the next, which would probably release near the end of January or even February, what with all the stuff that's going in it already.

Also, I need suggestions for names for the Agena parts, including

• Series name (IE Muo, SSR, Brun)
• Agena A casual name (IE Reliant, Terrier)
• Agena D casual name
• Secondary thruster casual name
• Probe core casual name

Additionally, I need casual names for:

• Pioneer/Venera Probe core
• Lunar Orbiter engine casual name (its in the latest dev release)

Cheers!

[A1Ch1]

8 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

It's not even my cat. I don't like cats. I got conned...

Anyways, it looks like I'll only have another hour or two to work today. The good news is 1) the worst part is behind us I think, because 2) This is what I have so far.

Their textures aren't quite done, but I think I'm going to move to other pieces right now. It looks like what's left is:

-Secondary engine module (modeled, needs UVmap and texture)
-Tanks, 3 (4?) sizes.
-Probe core

I also graduated up to working with 1024 texture maps so there is plenty of room left for, for example, an antenna, or the ATV docking module. Let me know if there are any other Agena things you'd like to see.
The engines wound up being a bit long, so they'll have some LFO in addition to monopropellant. In terms of balancing, I was thinking of making them fairly expensive, seeing as Agena is a pretty capable upper stage, with it's own RCS, probe core, etc.

Looks amazing! My preference is getting Agena parts sooner rather than later, I'm practically dying to make configs after all this build-up

[CobaltWolf]

11 hours ago, A1Ch1 said:

Looks amazing! My preference is getting Agena parts sooner rather than later, I'm practically dying to make configs after all this build-up

I'll push the engines through Unity and get a dev release out next chance I have to work.

[Kartoffelkuchen]

Wow, the Agena looks awesome!

[Wahgineer]

I have a question: when should I ditch the engine ring for the atlas? Most of the screenshots I've seen are beauty shots that don't show the altimeter when they separate it.