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[1.8.1-1.10.1] Bluedog Design Bureau - Stockalike Saturn, Apollo, and more! (v1.7.1 "Огромный" 18/Oct/2020)


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9 minutes ago, Cedric Feldmann - Bear said:

(Double post, sorry!)

Weird question to ask, but will the F-1B be included in this?

I don't see any reason why it would be when we already have the F-1 (not that I'd complain if for some strange reason Cobaltwolf does decide to make one).

Edited by sslaptnhablhat
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2 hours ago, Cedric Feldmann - Bear said:

Weird question to ask, but will the F-1B be included in this?

Signs point to no.  CobaltWolf has said in the past that he basically only wants to do historic/space race stuff (through the Apollo era more or less) and the one exception to that, Atlas V, was added before the mod really had a direction.

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For any peeps playing with the dev branch and SCANsat, I've just added SCANsat compatibility for the Keyhole cameras (as well as the MOL camera).

All of these spy cameras are capable of high res altimetry (similar to the SAR in SCANsat), however in addition to EC, they will use a newly created Film stock resource for balancing purposes.

The earlier models like KH1, KH4 will carry considerably less film so they will only be able to scan part of the planet. In order to get a full scan, you will likely have to launch several satellites to achieve full coverage. The higher end models carry more, in my test, a single KH8 covered about 90% of Kerbin at stock scale at the ideal altitude.

This is all quite experimental and subject to change but any feedback would be appreciated.

The need for the film resource to perform scans hopefully helps differentiate the different cameras as they are unlocked and also helps balance the fact that these cameras might unlock earlier in the tech tree than the easier to use SAR scanner in SCANsat proper.

BUokuBil.png

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@Zorg This is a phenomenal idea. What would be neat to add is an option for lower-detail scans that use up less film. It could be like using a low-resolution film that would allow you to cover more of the surface vs using a higher resolution film that would cover less. Not sure if that would be practical or not. Amazing job on this. I plan to play around with this on my day off this week.

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31 minutes ago, DJ Reonic said:

@Zorg This is a phenomenal idea. What would be neat to add is an option for lower-detail scans that use up less film. It could be like using a low-resolution film that would allow you to cover more of the surface vs using a higher resolution film that would cover less. Not sure if that would be practical or not. Amazing job on this. I plan to play around with this on my day off this week.

well Scansat already has two altimetry scanning options. The low res radar altimetry which is in B&W and the high res Synthetic Aperture Radar altimetry which also is in colour and provides useful slope data.

Thing is the low res module is not suited to the earlier coronas as they are actually high resolution cameras in absolute terms. Even the early coronas got like 7.5m resolution and we also have actual radar altimeters in BDB like for the Ranger/Mariner.

The KH5 was a wide field mapping camera (140m resolution) but I dont think Cobalt is planning on making that. 

The idea right now at least is to use the film resource to limit the utility of the early models so that the bigger ones feel like an upgrade. However depending on how testing goes and feeback I am open to switching the KH1 and Kh4 to the low res scanner instead.

edit:

The other reason I am hesitant to do that is that the big KH cameras will not seem that appealing with a low res Radar scanning module since the basic radar part in SCANsat unlocks very early. A KH1 and KH4 with high res altimetry, relatively early tech level but some limitations due to the resource contraint however offers something quite different.

Edited by Zorg
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Love coming to check the thread and seeing so many replies! :)

 

22 hours ago, BezKartuza said:

Well why:
letter Q (eng) - КУ (rus). Well yes, there two letters.
letter W (eng) - В (rus)
But if you think that is better. You know better. You author.
In any case this mod is cool. I adore Saturn - 5 and Gemini!

Haha I know nothing.

 

18 hours ago, Invaderchaos said:

I'm really loving the parts from the last update and the current one that's being made. Inspired by many of the pictures on this forum of the beautiful space stations made with many of the newer parts, I finally got around to making Space Station Columbia, a hypothetical Orbiter-Derived Station based around Shuttle Columbia. 

FIjJYET.png

 

14 hours ago, Cedric Feldmann - Bear said:

Y’all asking about how a Delta III can lift an Apollo Block IV while I’m asking myself how he got an custom color CSM...

Wow! And seriously, that Apollo reskin is so cool!

 

11 hours ago, Cedric Feldmann - Bear said:

(Double post, sorry!)

Weird question to ask, but will the F-1B be included in this?

11 hours ago, sslaptnhablhat said:

I don't see any reason why it would be when we already have the F-1 (not that I'd complain if for some strange reason Cobaltwolf does decide to make one).

9 hours ago, Random Complaining Guy said:

f1b is in restock

9 hours ago, blowfish said:

Signs point to no.  CobaltWolf has said in the past that he basically only wants to do historic/space race stuff (through the Apollo era more or less) and the one exception to that, Atlas V, was added before the mod really had a direction.

I'd consider it if it had more hardware heritage with the F-1. If it was as simple as making a new nozzle and turbopump exhaust, y'know, the amount of effort would likely be worth it. But as is it's basically making a completely new engine. Still though, it's something I could see happening Some Daytm as part of the eventual Saturn revamp/expansion. Just... that's not remotely close to what I'm focused on working on right now. :)

 

2 hours ago, Zorg said:

For any peeps playing with the dev branch and SCANsat, I've just added SCANsat compatibility for the Keyhole cameras (as well as the MOL camera).

All of these spy cameras are capable of high res altimetry (similar to the SAR in SCANsat), however in addition to EC, they will use a newly created Film stock resource for balancing purposes.

The earlier models like KH1, KH4 will carry considerably less film so they will only be able to scan part of the planet. In order to get a full scan, you will likely have to launch several satellites to achieve full coverage. The higher end models carry more, in my test, a single KH8 covered about 90% of Kerbin at stock scale at the ideal altitude.

This is all quite experimental and subject to change but any feedback would be appreciated.

The need for the film resource to perform scans hopefully helps differentiate the different cameras as they are unlocked and also helps balance the fact that these cameras might unlock earlier in the tech tree than the easier to use SAR scanner in SCANsat proper.

1 hour ago, DJ Reonic said:

@Zorg This is a phenomenal idea. What would be neat to add is an option for lower-detail scans that use up less film. It could be like using a low-resolution film that would allow you to cover more of the surface vs using a higher resolution film that would cover less. Not sure if that would be practical or not. Amazing job on this. I plan to play around with this on my day off this week.

1 hour ago, Zorg said:

well Scansat already has two altimetry scanning options. The low res radar altimetry which is in B&W and the high res Synthetic Aperture Radar altimetry which also is in colour and provides useful slope data.

Thing is the low res module is not suited to the earlier coronas as they are actually high resolution cameras in absolute terms. Even the early coronas got like 7.5m resolution and we also have actual radar altimeters in BDB like for the Ranger/Mariner.

The KH5 was a wide field mapping camera (140m resolution) but I dont think Cobalt is planning on making that. 

The idea right now at least is to use the film resource to limit the utility of the early models so that the bigger ones feel like an upgrade. However depending on how testing goes and feeback I am open to switching the KH1 and Kh4 to the low res scanner instead.

edit:

The other reason I am hesitant to do that is that the big KH cameras will not seem that appealing with a low res Radar scanning module since the basic radar part in SCANsat unlocks very early. A KH1 and KH4 with high res altimetry, relatively early tech level but some limitations due to the resource contraint however offers something quite different.

I know that some talks had occured re: future of SCANsat, in particular giving it visual spectrum scanning in additional to the radar mapping. Those would be much more appropriate.

I know that the Keyholes are all high resolution as far as these things go, but I still think it would be interesting to see a difference between the "Mapping" camera systems (Corona) and the "high resolution" systems which were actual space-based telescopes (Gambit, Dorian). If only for gameplay purposes, to give reason to have multiple series of these things.

@DJ Reonic post pictures when you do! :)

 

 

eJG73fP.png

Edited by CobaltWolf
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1 hour ago, Zorg said:

well Scansat already has two altimetry scanning options.

I also has a biome scanner and an anomaly scanner. Maybe the early corona could use the biome scanner...

1 hour ago, Zorg said:

relatively early tech level but some limitations due to the resource contraint however offers something quite different.

I think that resource constraint is the way to go with KH-1 and KH-4

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Some highlights from my first JNSQ science mode stream yesterday. Was able to finally send a couple of probes to orbit and gather some science after some failed attempts due to the infamous somersault maneuver. These rockets are probably not historically accurate, but that's the fun in the lego style options.

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EOIevLcXkAEKFLv?format=jpg&name=large

EOIevKZX0AAquAd?format=jpg&name=large

EOIevKbX4AEoby_?format=jpg&name=large

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23 minutes ago, tygoo7 said:

Some highlights from my first JNSQ science mode stream yesterday. Was able to finally send a couple of probes to orbit and gather some science after some failed attempts due to the infamous somersault maneuver. These rockets are probably not historically accurate, but that's the fun in the lego style options.

Those are great! Always nice to see some just, aesthetic builds without worrying about the historical accuracy. :)

 

3 minutes ago, alberro+ said:

I can’t get the modern extendable and passive docking ports to capture and dock. 

The whats?

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17 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

The whats?

I don’t have an image, but they look like the modern ones on the ISS. There is a passive and extendable version.

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3 minutes ago, alberro+ said:

I don’t have an image, but they look like the modern ones on the ISS. There is a passive and extendable version.

Oh... hmm... Well, those have been in the mod for... at least three years at this point and I've never had a problem reported with them? With that said, I've also never see anyone use them haha

What exactly is the issue? They were made by @cxg2827 who is long gone, and I don't have access to any of the files for them anymore. So if it's a problem with the colliders or something I might not be able to help.

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17 hours ago, Pappystein said:

Totally seriously,  How the heck did a Delta III lift an Apollo Blk III capsule?  (Blk 3 is the Capsule,  Blk IV is the capsule and an Orbital Module, and Blk V is the same capsule again with a DIFFERENT orbital module with a different SM engine.)  

16 hours ago, Cedric Feldmann - Bear said:

Y’all asking about how a Delta III can lift an Apollo Block IV while I’m asking myself how he got an custom color CSM...

First off, I meant an Apollo Block V, not a Block IV or Block III, I apologize for the confusion. I don't know if the Delta III could lift the Apollo Block V CSM to LEO, but I was able to get it to LKO on JNSQ. As for the textures, I used the BDB Now in Colors mod (which adds a couple texture variants to the Gemini and Apollo capsule's) and I modified the config to add my own personal re-texture of the Apollo CM and SM. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, CobaltWolf said:

Oh... hmm... Well, those have been in the mod for... at least three years at this point and I've never had a problem reported with them? With that said, I've also never see anyone use them haha

What exactly is the issue? They were made by @cxg2827 who is long gone, and I don't have access to any of the files for them anymore. So if it's a problem with the colliders or something I might not be able to help.

Well, They capture fine, but it just doesn’t dock. I don’t know how to explain it. I’ll try again and test it to see if I’m just not capturing properly.

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4 hours ago, Invaderchaos said:

First off, I meant an Apollo Block V, not a Block IV or Block III, I apologize for the confusion. I don't know if the Delta III could lift the Apollo Block V CSM to LEO, but I was able to get it to LKO on JNSQ. As for the textures, I used the BDB Now in Colors mod (which adds a couple texture variants to the Gemini and Apollo capsule's) and I modified the config to add my own personal re-texture of the Apollo CM and SM.

You and @Drakenex should talk about adding that blue Apollo skin to BDB in Colors :) And if you need any texture .PSDs, let me know. It's too much effort to keep an up to date repository of them somewhere but I can absolutely share any upon request.

 

3 hours ago, alberro+ said:

Well, They capture fine, but it just doesn’t dock. I don’t know how to explain it. I’ll try again and test it to see if I’m just not capturing properly.

Yeah, I talked to some people today and they don't seem to have a problem with it. Maybe share some screenshots?

 

16 minutes ago, stefsilver said:

I wish the Gemini mol mod updated its look of the parts the game needs them

What?

 

Impromptu dev stream booting up! Have some energy and wanted to work on texturing these Lunar Orbiter parts.
(Not enough energy to work on modeling for finishing Nimbus :|)

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6 hours ago, tygoo7 said:

Some highlights from my first JNSQ science mode stream yesterday. Was able to finally send a couple of probes to orbit and gather some science after some failed attempts due to the infamous somersault maneuver. These rockets are probably not historically accurate, but that's the fun in the lego style options.

1) Eyaup,  I have done the somersault maneuver a few times in JNSQ too.       Never fun...  But it is fun cause you learned your flight profile was too aggressive.    Aggressive flight profile... no   not MEEEEeeeEEEE!!!!   Nope never happens (runs away and reduces the aggressiveness of his Mechjeb ascent guidance... AGAIN! )

2) Nice looking Probes.   And Good launches!

3) Who cares if they are not historical?    Bravo for NOT following History!  

f86EGPB.gif

 

The whole reason I play this game is to NOT follow history.   I like the What iff.  *Checks spelling... Eyaup, I spelled iff right*

 

5 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

Oh... hmm... Well, those have been in the mod for... at least three years at this point and I've never had a problem reported with them? With that said, I've also never see anyone use them haha

What exactly is the issue? They were made by @cxg2827 who is long gone, and I don't have access to any of the files for them anymore. So if it's a problem with the colliders or something I might not be able to help.

I think the issue (with out more feedback) is the fact that the three lips on both the male and female parts actually have colliders.   When you mock up your space station it is hard to get the docking port positioning correctly in VAB because it auto snaps.  You might not see a Port rotation and then when you are in space you end up with parts at odd angles.  If you try to force the angle to be "correct" you end up not docking no matter what you do.   

22 hours ago, Stevphfeniey said:

<SNIP nice data on ETS Apollo>

 

 As to how a Delta III could lift an Apollo Block III, I have no idea. Block III comes in at 11(?) tons, Delta III can throw about 9 tons (presumably) a 250x250 ish kilometer 28 degree orbit. 

I stand corrected and thanks for the pictograph.  I seemed to have missed or forgotten Apollo Blk.3+

So I am guessing that was in STOCK KSP  then.   But it is cool and the coloring is AWESOME!

 

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7 hours ago, alberro+ said:

Well, They capture fine, but it just doesn’t dock. I don’t know how to explain it. I’ll try again and test it to see if I’m just not capturing properly.

Are you retracting the ring on the active unit? Or are you using two active/two passive units, instead of the proper mix of one of each?

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20 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

You and @Drakenex should talk about adding that blue Apollo skin to BDB in Colors :) And if you need any texture .PSDs, let me know. It's too much effort to keep an up to date repository of them somewhere but I can absolutely share any upon request.

If you do happen to do this, the new Apollo active docking port needs to have the BDB in Colours textures added as well.

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  • CobaltWolf changed the title to [1.8.1-1.10.1] Bluedog Design Bureau - Stockalike Saturn, Apollo, and more! (v1.7.1 "Огромный" 18/Oct/2020)

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