[1.12.5] Bluedog Design Bureau - Stockalike Saturn, Apollo, and more! (v1.13.0 "Забытый" 13/Aug/2023)

[Pappystein]

2 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

SO I promised myself I wouldn't say anything...    Nope not going to comment on the fact that my favorite part of the Mercury and Mercury II (Gemini) programs is back in the mod... no not going to say it.

crap I am going to ....     RED!!!!!!

Sorry,  Nothing to see here, please move along!   

Seriously, while the original textures for the old Leo capsule left a bit to be desired, I have seriously missed the RED on them.   I can wait... I promise I can, for these new parts to be in the game.  But you better believe that Github File hosting is going to burn down when you post this to DEV!

Thanks for the updates and letting us know what is to be known!

5 minutes ago, Zorg said:

 

Ok since you said this was in JNSQ,  I have to ask, how are you getting the alternative launch buildings on the KSP campus?   I had that all setup in my STOCK play-through... But when I upgraded to JNSQ and re-installed it seemed to cause nothing but issues...  Like the old KSP 0.17 VAB showing up!

8 minutes ago, Zorg said:

 

 

Err, are you sure your astronaut isn't screaming "SPACE KRACKEN!" right now?  

Love the part and love Universal Storage.

BTW are there plans for other Engines to have Sequential firing?   (as in ones already in the mod not future engine plans?)   Obviously this will be REALLY important for the Gemini B Service module due to the 6 SRM also used for Abort on pad (no ejection seats in Gemini-B IIRC.)  

   I can see a use for the Star-5X (?) the small triangular sep motor that was done in Titan (would solve the whole 2nd Stage spinning 90 degrees at separation issue!)

 

[Zorg]

58 minutes ago, Pappystein said:

Ok since you said this was in JNSQ,  I have to ask, how are you getting the alternative launch buildings on the KSP campus?   I had that all setup in my STOCK play-through... But when I upgraded to JNSQ and re-installed it seemed to cause nothing but issues...  Like the old KSP 0.17 VAB showing up!

I'm just using KSC extended. However it is a bootleg version, basically I modified a pre-release version to reposition the smaller pads back at KSC. The official release has LC5/6, LC17, LC19 etc away from KSC due to space limitiations in stock scale.

I believe the current release has full support for JNSQ now and should have fixed the colour mismatch on the pads. I've just been too lazy to get that and do the re-positioning again.

The old VAB showing up on the space center view is harmless, you dont actually end up launching from there. There is a fix for that in some setting, you can check the Kerbal Konstructs thread for that if it keeps happening.

[Morphisor]

Oh and since Gemini is coming up soon, I went and made a mission for that, too 

Don't forget to bring snacks.

[biohazard15]

Juno IV MLV (aka "Launching Mercury on Anything But Atlas):

Launches Mercury to 120km circular orbit. 1st stage is fully fueled, Castor 1 SRBs. The latter should be jettisoned as soon as they burned out (27.3 seconds) in order to conserve dV. What do you mean by "please haul boosters until safe zone"? We dropped it and smashed your truck? Well, that "No Parking" sign stood there for a reason. Not our fault that it was smashed by falling boosters during previous launch.

Also features possible bug with shadows from SRB (I have no idea what's the deal with it - the part itself, KSP, my graphic settings or my video drivers. I run RTX 2070 with latest drivers).

I am seriously in love with the new Juno IV...

Edited March 27, 2020 by biohazard15

[MashAndBangers]

Juno IV heavy doesn't exist.  Juno IV heavy can't hurt you...

 

[biohazard15]

OK, so basically Im very sMOL

First thing to note: this rocket is extremely unreliable without rigid attachment. It likes to pull a RUD during Soltan burn. If you want to build it and fly it, rigid attach everything, and I mean everything. Otherwise, it will wobble and\or disintegrate. You have been warned.

If you've managed to tame it, it would fly very well.

It is sort of overpowered, even for for 2.5x Kerbin. But better than underpowered, isn't it? Note the Jupiter guidance unit - it is used not only to enhance guidance, but also to deorbit Titan second stage.

sMOL Space Station communication suite was derived from Alouette satellite. Nice, eh?

Also, I would like to request naming the Mercury Lab "Smol". Or "sMOL". Or "SMOL". Because it's smol.

Also #2, it doesn't work. Like, at all. If you launch a scientist in that Mercury and then transfer them to lab, the craft would become uncontrollable, with no option to start the research.

Also #3, if you try to climb that ladder, your craft would rotate around like in some Danny2462 video. Not sure about the source of that bug, though.

 

Edited March 27, 2020 by biohazard15

[Zorg]

3 hours ago, biohazard15 said:

Also #2, it doesn't work. Like, at all. If you launch a scientist in that Mercury and then transfer them to lab, the craft would become uncontrollable, with no option to start the research.

Also #3, if you try to climb that ladder, your craft would rotate around like in some Danny2462 video. Not sure about the source of that bug, though.

You may want to include an Agena avionics unit in your build

[Pappystein]

7 hours ago, Zorg said:

You may want to include an Agena avionics unit in your build

I think the key is the lab didn't.... LAB?    But I agree about the lack of a Agena GCU!      I haven't flown one of these yet (been playing with a Saturn A-1[Titan IIIA] build that likes to explode on Stage 1 staging....)

That brings up a big Question I have had in the back of my mind.   Agena A and Agena B had huge battery reserves that Agena D did not, by default have.   Will the Agena A and B engine shroud get the battery?     The Agena D expansion battery is already in the game (as the GATV battery)  But the A/B have not received THEIR battery.  (the Lockheed Type 1 battery IIRC.)      Alternatively the Agena GCU could be updated with an Agena A, B, D and Ascent Agena (oh and lets not forget about SHUTTLE Agena!) profiles (Differing costs, Differing masses, Differing MONO-PROPELLANT, differing EC, differing controlability options)

IIRC currently in a Career playthrough you get 1 guidance upgrade for the Agena GCU?  

 

Oh and a Thought about Shuttle Agena,  Can a control option be added by a non-GCU part (eg the Shuttle Agena's Twin docking antenna that looks awesome but has no real "need" in KSP with all the other antennas already on Agena?)

 

 

[CDSlice]

2 hours ago, Pappystein said:

I think the key is the lab didn't.... LAB?    But I agree about the lack of a Agena GCU!      I haven't flown one of these yet (been playing with a Saturn A-1[Titan IIIA] build that likes to explode on Stage 1 staging....)

I don't think science labs in KSP can function unless the craft is controllable, so by including the GCU your craft will be controllable without the scientist in the capsule, leaving them free to do research in the lab.

[Zorg]

  

2 hours ago, Pappystein said:

I think the key is the lab didn't.... LAB? 

Wouldn't the presence of command via a probe core allow the scientist to start using the lab?

2 hours ago, Pappystein said:

That brings up a big Question I have had in the back of my mind.   Agena A and Agena B had huge battery reserves that Agena D did not, by default have.   Will the Agena A and B engine shroud get the battery?     The Agena D expansion battery is already in the game (as the GATV battery)  But the A/B have not received THEIR battery.  (the Lockheed Type 1 battery IIRC.)      Alternatively the Agena GCU could be updated with an Agena A, B, D and Ascent Agena (oh and lets not forget about SHUTTLE Agena!) profiles (Differing costs, Differing masses, Differing MONO-PROPELLANT, differing EC, differing controlability options)

Um I'm not sure that level of granularity would be beneficial in terms of upgrades re GCU. It should already have the usual progression.

I'll take another look at the capacities of the A/B and D racks but for gameplay purposes the D rack needs to be a clear upgrade.

[Jso]

1 hour ago, Zorg said:

I'll take another look at the capacities of the A/B and D racks but for gameplay purposes the D rack needs to be a clear upgrade.

I think it used to be the A/B rack had a little more battery. The D total build was lighter, and the rack had a fuel cell just to make it better, because there's only so much we can do. The two racks now looks like they were both copied from the same file.

[Pappystein]

1 hour ago, Zorg said:

  

Wouldn't the presence of command via a probe core allow the scientist to start using the lab?

Um I'm not sure that level of granularity would be beneficial in terms of upgrades re GCU. It should already have the usual progression.

I'll take another look at the capacities of the A/B and D racks but for gameplay purposes the D rack needs to be a clear upgrade.

IRL the D rack, is a massive WEIGHT savings.  The Type IV battery (the only designation I am sure off without sources open) is the smallest battery on any Agena launch.... except for possibly Ascent Agena.  

Here is my IRL list of the differences in Agena GCU:

Agena A:

1. Radio Controled with pre-programmed "responses"   Limited control-ability  Responses are based on clock timer only.
2. Large Battery capacity (for poorly designed 1st generation Corona's potential power drain)
3. small Helium tank in the GCU for one or possibly 2 engine restarts

Agena B:

1. Inertial Guidance with Pre-Programmed responses  Advanced controlabilty Can receive commands to innate a pre programed response)
2. Large Battery Capacity
3. Small Helium tank in the GCU LR81 version dependent on use

Agena D:

1. Inertial Guidance with digital (well Solid state) GCU, dramatic mass reduction, Program can be altered in flight from Ground control (so Midcourse guidance control not required but possible)  
2. no battery in GCU (large capacity)
3. small Helium tank in GCU LR81version Dependent on use of this.
4. re the Solid state guidance.  They literally JUST replaced the Vacuum Tubes with FET and JFET Transistors.  No actually software change from Agena B except the ability to take updates to inertial program from ground (like using kOS in KSP to fly your rockets!) 
5. Estimate the Agena D GCU battery is good for 1/10th engine truss EC only!

Ascent Agena:

1. Multi-responce Inertial+Midcourse guidance with full digital control bus (Solid state hardware and programming to match)   Further mass reduction vs Agena D GCU
2. No battery in GCU (same as Agena D above)
3. NO Helium tank in GCU (engine restart now by engine itself)

Shuttle Agena:

1. As Ascent Agena but gains memory and "pre programmed" complex maneuvers (EG docking with space shuttle after rendezvousing )  No in game change due to this
2. Mass is same as Ascent Agena but has add ons (the Docking "antenna" that is in the mod.

 

Comments on how agena flew:

The Agena A is pretty much a Radio controled stage.  It is like flying a RC aircraft with a basic set of controls (to be clear we are not talking about a drone here!)  Once you had it flying like you wanted it to, you set a timer... when the timer goes off it does the SINGLE command you ordered it to.  So lets say you are flying a Corona... you tell it to start using the camera in X minutes, when you HOPE Orbital mechanics will place you over your target location.  

Agena D flys like a modern personal Drone,  A computer actually controls it, but you tell the computer what you want it to do... you don't actually control it yourself.  But if you give it an improper command... BOOM!.  Agena D did not actually control the latter KH sats, (they had their own computer.)  Rather the KH bus told Agena what to do and this is how they got rid of the big battery, the KH sats had their own now!)

Ascent Agena: Flys like a modern PROFESSIONAL or MILITARY drone.  You tell the drone what to do and IT figures out how to actually do it.   Invalid commands are mostly ignored unless an override is in place.

 

The Battery built into the Agena D GCU had just enough power to de-orbit whatever payload it had on it due to failure.  Agena A and B seem to have their battery only in the GCU (no battery is shown on any of the Engine assemblies I have drawings of.)

 

 

Oh and PS, I was un-aware that a LAB couldn't work if a Scientist was onboard but no control.   You learn something new every-day!

 

15 minutes ago, Jso said:

I think it used to be the A/B rack had a little more battery. The D total build was lighter, and the rack had a fuel cell just to make it better, because there's only so much we can do. The two racks now looks like they were both copied from the same file.

Thanks for looking at that Jso,

By stored energy the the A/B should have ~5 times the ECs as D if matching real life.  

Edited March 27, 2020 by Pappystein

[Zorg]

Just a simple adapter base rather than a whole new fairing today. This base is designed to sit on top of the stock type Delta 1.5m fairing miniskirt and comes with the Titan standard shroud. This is based on the Delta II that flew such a configuration a couple of times. I guess the lighter 10ft composite shroud (which is also planned) took away the need for this IRL.

Due to the various nodes on the Delta II miniskirt, the adapter base only comes with a bottom attach node to fit on top of the skirt so as not to get in the way of things. However an optional b9 switch to add a top attach node just above is also available if you want to use it as a standalone 1.5 to 1.875m base.

Some kind of HOSS thing. Should have used Castor IVs.

Edited March 27, 2020 by Zorg

[Guest]

I always liked this funny little fairing, but I never realized this was Titan-derived. I like this one a lot.

[Zorg]

24 minutes ago, Dragon01 said:

I always liked this funny little fairing, but I never realized this was Titan-derived. I like this one a lot.

Thanks! Not a lot of information out there about this one. The 9.5ft metal and the 10 ft composite fairings are quite well documented in the user manuals for Delta II but only a couple of pictures to go on for this.

Delta II (D227) Wind Satellite 941101 0431 DF-SC-98-02003

by Cliff Steenhoff, on Flickr

 

Edited March 27, 2020 by Zorg

[CobaltWolf]

2 hours ago, Dragon01 said:

I always liked this funny little fairing, but I never realized this was Titan-derived. I like this one a lot.

1 hour ago, Zorg said:

Thanks! Not a lot of information out there about this one. The 9.5ft metal and the 10 ft composite fairings are quite well documented in the user manuals for Delta II but only a couple of pictures to go on for this.

It's because McDonnell Douglas were the contractor for the Titan fairings so it was already their own in house design, just needed the boattail.

[dave1904]

Is there a reason the RL10C-1 is missing from the atlas v stack? I know its only visual but as always I am curious. 

[CobaltWolf]

6 minutes ago, dave1904 said:

Is there a reason the RL10C-1 is missing from the atlas v stack? I know its only visual but as always I am curious. 

Uhm. If nothing else I thing those parts predate me trying to get that kind of granularity. Centaur is planned for a revamp this update (though the Common Centaur's only change will likely be the engines) so there'll be time to check it out

 

Also, wanted to just share - I'm planning on doing a dev stream on Sunday! Hopefully give y'all a nice place to hang out since we're all stuck inside. Going to be working on the Gemini parts which are quite a long way from being finished, but we'll see what progress we can make.

[biohazard15]

15 hours ago, Zorg said:

You may want to include an Agena avionics unit in your build

 

7 hours ago, Pappystein said:

But I agree about the lack of a Agena GCU!

Whoops  Totally forgot about that.

[dave1904]

1 minute ago, CobaltWolf said:

Uhm. If nothing else I thing those parts predate me trying to get that kind of granularity. Centaur is planned for a revamp this update (though the Common Centaur's only change will likely be the engines) so there'll be time to check it out

 

Also, wanted to just share - I'm planning on doing a dev stream on Sunday! Hopefully give y'all a nice place to hang out since we're all stuck inside. Going to be working on the Gemini parts which are quite a long way from being finished, but we'll see what progress we can make.

I know you guys only do historic rockets and atlasv was an exception but now that the Delta IV is coming to her end I would consider her historic :p 

[Friznit]

11 minutes ago, dave1904 said:

I know you guys only do historic rockets and atlasv was an exception but now that the Delta IV is coming to her end I would consider her historic :p 

[dave1904]

1 minute ago, Friznit said:

Hehe, I would get banned for saying the things I would do for that  

[Friznit]

Just now, dave1904 said:

Hehe, I would get banned for saying the things I would do for that  

That's all BDB Titan LDC parts except the engine which is the ReStock Skipper, slightly tweakscaled to fit (I would use CryoEngines Etna but I've not unlocked it in this career yet).  Zorg did an alternative build using mostly restock tanks which I stuck on the wiki here

[dave1904]

19 minutes ago, Friznit said:

That's all BDB Titan LDC parts except the engine which is the ReStock Skipper, slightly tweakscaled to fit (I would use CryoEngines Etna but I've not unlocked it in this career yet).  Zorg did an alternative build using mostly restock tanks which I stuck on the wiki here

The problem with the Etha is that its turbo pump exhaust does not actually produce trust so it cannot roll the delta medium. Its only visual. I am currently using it and was looking for an alternative. Maybe the skipper using LH2 is better. Thanks for tip. Was looking into that last night. Thats why I mentioned the Delta IV now. I did increase the gimbel to 6 and rebalance mass for 2x5 kerbin so at least the Heavy very can be very stable. 

I use redirect tanks and the Etha.

[Guest]

@benjee10 made some Delta IV parts, but I think he was unable to pursue the project. Assuming he won't decide to get back to it now that the epidemic shook everything up, he might share the models with @CobaltWolf.