[1.12.5] Bluedog Design Bureau - Stockalike Saturn, Apollo, and more! (v1.13.0 "Забытый" 13/Aug/2023)

[computercat04]

Merry Christmas to the BDB team!!

[biohazard15]

OGO 1 (Atlas-Vega)

NB: I know that it was launched on Atlas-Agena. In this career, NASA decided to develop Vega (and stripped-down 6K) alongside Agena as a pure upper stage. Thus, most NASA Atlas launches use Vega.

The Orbiting Geophysical Observatory was a family of NASA satellites designed to study Earth's magnetosphere. First one, OGO 1, was launched at 5 September 1964 on Atlas LV-3A Agena-B Vega.

Since OGO 1 is too small for "6K" fairing, this launch uses a Centaur one.

Rocketcam!

Vega boosts the OGO 1 to a highly elliptical (150km x 25000km x 31.2deg) orbit.

This may look like a still from one of Danny2462's videos, but actually it's just OGO 1 unfolding its various booms.

Merry Christmas to all!

[Minmus Taster]

12 minutes ago, biohazard15 said:

OGO 1 (Atlas-Vega)

 

  Hide contents

 

NB: I know that it was launched on Atlas-Agena. In this career, NASA decided to develop Vega (and stripped-down 6K) alongside Agena as a pure upper stage. Thus, most NASA Atlas launches use Vega.

The Orbiting Geophysical Observatory was a family of NASA satellites designed to study Earth's magnetosphere. First one, OGO 1, was launched at 5 September 1964 on Atlas LV-3A Agena-B Vega.

Since OGO 1 is too small for "6K" fairing, this launch uses a Centaur one.

Rocketcam!

Vega boosts the OGO 1 to a highly elliptical (150km x 25000km x 31.2deg) orbit.

This may look like a still from one of Danny2462's videos, but actually it's just OGO 1 unfolding its various booms.

 

Merry Christmas to all!

 

Merry christmas!

[DaveyJ576]

5 hours ago, biohazard15 said:

OGO 1 (Atlas-Vega)

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

NB: I know that it was launched on Atlas-Agena. In this career, NASA decided to develop Vega (and stripped-down 6K) alongside Agena as a pure upper stage. Thus, most NASA Atlas launches use Vega.

The Orbiting Geophysical Observatory was a family of NASA satellites designed to study Earth's magnetosphere. First one, OGO 1, was launched at 5 September 1964 on Atlas LV-3A Agena-B Vega.

Since OGO 1 is too small for "6K" fairing, this launch uses a Centaur one.

Rocketcam!

Vega boosts the OGO 1 to a highly elliptical (150km x 25000km x 31.2deg) orbit.

This may look like a still from one of Danny2462's videos, but actually it's just OGO 1 unfolding its various booms.

 

Merry Christmas to all!

 

You sir, are a steely eyed missile-man. Well done!

[Starhelperdude]

request: if there is currently work dedicated at oscar one, could we also get a part switch for Oscar two? It would be just a simple texture switch I think

[MIL-SPEC]

On 12/20/2020 at 1:44 PM, Friznit said:

It's organised into folders for each rocket, so you can simply remove the bits you don't want.

I did it but then realized commonly used parts in different folders exist!

 

On 12/20/2020 at 10:36 PM, CobaltWolf said:

Quoting from the FAQ in the first post (not trying to be terse, just saving myself time )

 

Well, That’s just my thought, not a request! 

 

Merry Christmas & Happy New Year!

[Pappystein]

So while I am sick today I am doing some research on the various "Big Apollo" Proposals (similar to the Big Gemini proposals from McD)   12 crew, larger sized capsules.     Trying to track down why I have the name "Eros" stuck in my head for such a contraption and what not.

In doing so, I found a youtube video of a test of the Nike Zeus B's ZERO stage booster Rocket as well as First stage control.   Right Era but decidedly the wrong type of rocket for BDB.   But I thought I would share it none the less due to the "unique" vector control system employed:

For those who do not know Nike Zeus B was the United States' first long range anti ballistic missile system.   Used in conjunction with the short range "Sprint" interceptor missile, which is still the fastest accelerating man made object in free flight (as apposed to something in a barrel or on a mag rail)... the Nike Zeus B was armed with a small nuclear warhead and intended to destroy formations/waves of incoming ICBMs.      It was hoped (I would say estimated but the concept was too sketchy to say that...) that ICBMs would arrive in distinct waves and that a few nuclear explosions in space would destroy all the incoming missiles before MIRV separation.        This is one of the biggest reasons that the Nike Zeus B did not enter widespread service for more than... LITERALLY ONE DAY!!! as part of the SafeGuard system.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nike_Zeus

http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/m-49.html

https://www.nuclearabms.info/NikeZeus.html

of the three sources, Designation-systems.net has proven the most accurate over the years.... so I would trust it's data highest (I am unsure of the bottom link... just found it with Google-fu and realized it had pertinant data.)

 

EDIT and yes I realized after I posted that the production version of Zeus B was Nike Spartan.   I don't think the weird vector control was used on Spartan (most documents list the aft fins as FIXED which they decidedly were not on Zeus B

 

Edited December 27, 2020 by Pappystein

[Minmus Taster]

1 hour ago, Pappystein said:

So while I am sick today I am doing some research on the various "Big Apollo" Proposals (similar to the Big Gemini proposals from McD)   12 crew, larger sized capsules.     Trying to track down why I have the name "Eros" stuck in my head for such a contraption and what not.

In doing so, I found a youtube video of a test of the Nike Zeus B's ZERO stage booster Rocket as well as First stage control.   Right Era but decidedly the wrong type of rocket for BDB.   But I thought I would share it none the less due to the "unique" vector control system employed:

For those who do not know Nike Zeus B was the United States' first long range anti ballistic missile system.   Used in conjunction with the short range "Sprint" interceptor missile, which is still the fastest accelerating man made object in free flight (as apposed to something in a barrel or on a mag rail)... the Nike Zeus B was armed with a small nuclear warhead and intended to destroy formations/waves of incoming ICBMs.      It was hoped (I would say estimated but the concept was too sketchy to say that...) that ICBMs would arrive in distinct waves and that a few nuclear explosions in space would destroy all the incoming missiles before MIRV separation.        This is one of the biggest reasons that the Nike Zeus B did not enter widespread service for more than... LITERALLY ONE DAY!!! as part of the SafeGuard system.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nike_Zeus

http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/m-49.html

https://www.nuclearabms.info/NikeZeus.html

of the three sources, Designation-systems.net has proven the most accurate over the years.... so I would trust it's data highest (I am unsure of the bottom link... just found it with Google-fu and realized it had pertinant data.)

 

 

Hope you feel better soon!

[alberro+]

Merry late Christmas fellas! Here's some nice pictures of an Eve flyby, really liking this probe. 

 

[biohazard15]

Nothing historical today. Instead, here's a Mariner 2, launched on a Moon fly-by mission on a Titan II-Gamma rocket:

Night launch. Two reasons for this: first, the Moon plane, and second, Gamma has no thermal insulation, thus LH2 in it boils like in Hell.

Also, black fairing and white Titan, because why not?

Releasing Gamma.

Unfortunately, this was a bad timing - Gamma had to make almost a full orbit to reach TLI node...

...but fortunately, there is a big supply of monopropellant and really powerful RCS, which can be used in case of such things.

Releasing and unfoldind the Mariner.

Close fly-by.

I mean, REALLY close.

As gravity flungs it out of Earth-Moon system, Mariner takes the last look at its home planet. Its fuel tanks are still full - so who knows, maybe I'll reactivate it one day and send it to Venus or Mars.

[Pappystein]

8 minutes ago, biohazard15 said:

Nothing historical today. Instead, here's a Mariner 2, launched on a Moon fly-by mission on a Titan II-Gamma rocket:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Night launch. Two reasons for this: first, the Moon plane, and second, Gamma has no thermal insulation, thus LH2 in it boils like in Hell.

Also, black fairing and white Titan, because why not?

Releasing Gamma.

Unfortunately, this was a bad timing - Gamma had to make almost a full orbit to reach TLI node...

...but fortunately, there is a big supply of monopropellant and really powerful RCS, which can be used in case of such things.

Releasing and unfoldind the Mariner.

Close fly-by.

I mean, REALLY close.

As gravity flungs it out of Earth-Moon system, Mariner takes the last look at its home planet. Its fuel tanks are still full - so who knows, maybe I'll reactivate it one day and send it to Venus or Mars.

 

 

Interesting use of the Gamma Kick stage as a full up upper stage

 

[computercat04]

12 hours ago, alberro+ said:

Merry late Christmas fellas! Here's some nice pictures of an Eve flyby, really liking this probe. 

 

What's that probe? 

[biohazard15]

1 minute ago, computercat04 said:

What's that probe? 

Looks like a kitbash from BDB and Probes Plus.

[biohazard15]

24 minutes ago, Pappystein said:

Interesting use of the Gamma Kick stage as a full up upper stage

One man's kick stage is other man's upper stage 

Seriously though - I never understood the difference between "upper stage" and "kick stage" and "apogee kick motor" and "perigee kick motor". All are space-only, all are meant to insert payload to a different orbit... so what's the real difference? Why invent a ton of terms for what is literally the same thing? Russians kind of got it right - we call all our upper\kick\push\AKM\PKM\whatever stages "разгонный блок", lit. "acceleration block". This is a stage that accelerates to move payload to a different orbit. Simple. We like simple.

Edited December 27, 2020 by biohazard15

[Starhelperdude]

1 hour ago, biohazard15 said:

One man's kick stage is other man's upper stage 

Seriously though - I never understood the difference between "upper stage" and "kick stage" and "apogee kick motor" and "perigee kick motor". All are space-only, all are meant to insert payload to a different orbit... so what's the real difference? Why invent a ton of terms for what is literally the same thing? Russians kind of got it right - we call all our upper\kick\push\AKM\PKM\whatever stages "разгонный блок", lit. "acceleration block". This is a stage that accelerates to move payload to a different orbit. Simple. We like simple.

upper stage is just a stage ''above'' the first stage, kick stage and kick motors fire at apoap or periap to circularise, upper stage is just a general term for all stages except the first one, and kick stages are there to fire at for example the apoapsis for the vanguard rocket so it circularises (sry for my bad english, it's not my first language )

[Pappystein]

2 hours ago, biohazard15 said:

One man's kick stage is other man's upper stage 

Seriously though - I never understood the difference between "upper stage" and "kick stage" and "apogee kick motor" and "perigee kick motor". All are space-only, all are meant to insert payload to a different orbit... so what's the real difference? Why invent a ton of terms for what is literally the same thing? Russians kind of got it right - we call all our upper\kick\push\AKM\PKM\whatever stages "разгонный блок", lit. "acceleration block". This is a stage that accelerates to move payload to a different orbit. Simple. We like simple.

 

56 minutes ago, Starhelperdude said:

upper stage is just a stage ''above'' the first stage, kick stage and kick motors fire at apoap or periap to circularise, upper stage is just a general term for all stages except the first one, and kick stages are there to fire at for example the apoapsis for the vanguard rocket so it circularises (sry for my bad english, it's not my first language )

While Starhelperdude has it about 95% right.   Kick stages are also meant for HIGH ACCELERATION burns where upper stages typically have low acceleration through most of their flight... rarely getting to or near a Thrust to mass ratio of 1:1.  

And Starhelperdude, don't worry about it you explained it fine     I think a lot of us who's native language is one form of English or another have issues with the language....   

 

[Pappystein]

23 hours ago, biohazard15 said:

Nothing historical today. Instead, here's a Mariner 2, launched on a Moon fly-by mission on a Titan II-Gamma rocket:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Night launch. Two reasons for this: first, the Moon plane, and second, Gamma has no thermal insulation, thus LH2 in it boils like in Hell.

Also, black fairing and white Titan, because why not?

Releasing Gamma.

Unfortunately, this was a bad timing - Gamma had to make almost a full orbit to reach TLI node...

...but fortunately, there is a big supply of monopropellant and really powerful RCS, which can be used in case of such things.

Releasing and unfoldind the Mariner.

Close fly-by.

I mean, REALLY close.

As gravity flungs it out of Earth-Moon system, Mariner takes the last look at its home planet. Its fuel tanks are still full - so who knows, maybe I'll reactivate it one day and send it to Venus or Mars.

 

 

So re-quoting this to ask:   BDB Team.   How do we get the Vega Tanks to have Insulation for Hydrolox.   It is clear from the Gamma drawings that it is using Centaur D level Insulation on the Gamma Kick stage?    Dose the Boiloff modules on the Centaur D tanks just need to be copied into the Vega (so when you switch to Hydrolox it is already there) or does something more substantive need to be done on you, the Developer's end?

 

[computercat04]

I'm trying to make Strawman but the fairing won't close.

[derega16]

I just download the lastest dev version. RD-180 overheat on its own despite the same craft worked normally in previous build even when using no SRB.

[biohazard15]

16 hours ago, Pappystein said:

So re-quoting this to ask:   BDB Team.   How do we get the Vega Tanks to have Insulation for Hydrolox.   It is clear from the Gamma drawings that it is using Centaur D level Insulation on the Gamma Kick stage?    Dose the Boiloff modules on the Centaur D tanks just need to be copied into the Vega (so when you switch to Hydrolox it is already there) or does something more substantive need to be done on you, the Developer's end?

It looks like that B9 patch should add a boiloff module with some basic insulation to any BDB tank if LH2\OX is selected and the tank has no boiloff module in its part config. It doesn't seem to work properly, however - it does add a boiloff module, but insulation stays at 0%.

[biohazard15]

San Marco 1 (Scout X-1)

San Marco 1 was the first Italian satellite. It was built by Italy and launched on US' Scout rocket from Wallops Flight Facility at 15 December 1964.

The Scout is tuned down for the sake of better control. X-248 flies at 25% thrust, Antares and Castor fly at 50% thrust. I also cut Castor at around 33% of propellant, to give Antares some extra burn time. Algol is unchanged.

Wallops in KSRSS is... well, let's just say it's not much to look at. Should be better in 0.7, though.

This is how you hold a satellite, Marcello!

Pioneer 5 core puts a very good performance impersonating the San Marco.

[Pappystein]

7 hours ago, biohazard15 said:

It looks like that B9 patch should add a boiloff module with some basic insulation to any BDB tank if LH2\OX is selected and the tank has no boiloff module in its part config. It doesn't seem to work properly, however - it does add a boiloff module, but insulation stays at 0%.

So I have literally JUST gotten up but the last half hour in bed I was thinking on this and I think (I haven't looked into it yet) the Boiloff module IS the insulation.    Meaning all that needs to happen is the Centaur Boiloff module needs to be copied to Vega tanks

At this point this is just a semi-conscious guess.  

will edit when I look into it in a few minutes

EDITED AS PROMISED:

The B9 Fuel switch boil-off add-on is not adding internal insulation.   THIS is where we are seeing no insulation from.   And this is PROBABLY RIGHT.     You are dumping Hydrolox into what is basically a Kerolox tank setup.   BDB is just forcing you to actually use Hydrolox Tanks.   

The issue is, certain tanks (I am thinking Specifically of  Vega.) would need more than what the B9 Patch offers .

Given Gamma (the Hydrolox Vega) was made up with Centaur D insulation I feel it should have the same or better boiloff parameters as Centaur D tanks.

I say better because smaller = more controllable thermodynamics.   But actually since some of the documents on Gamma state that it would actually have a lower boil off than Centaur....     But that is a function of the pressure vs Volume dynamics not better insulation.

 

 

 

Edited December 29, 2020 by Pappystein

[biohazard15]

56 minutes ago, Pappystein said:

The B9 Fuel switch boil-off add-on is not adding internal insulation.   THIS is where we are seeing no insulation from.   And this is PROBABLY RIGHT.

From what I can see in the patch and in hydrolox tanks cfgs, it should add 50% to both insulation and reflectivity. This is slightly better than Centaur D, but much worse than, say, Centaur G. Or maybe I'm reading it totally wrong.

 

59 minutes ago, Pappystein said:

You are dumping Hydrolox into what is basically a Kerolox tank setup.   BDB is just forcing you to actually use Hydrolox Tanks. 

Maybe, but then there's a problem not only with Gamma, but also with any other proposed hydrolox setups - like Titan variants.

[Pappystein]

17 minutes ago, biohazard15 said:

From what I can see in the patch and in hydrolox tanks cfgs, it should add 50% to both insulation and reflectivity. This is slightly better than Centaur D, but much worse than, say, Centaur G. Or maybe I'm reading it totally wrong.

 

Maybe, but then there's a problem not only with Gamma, but also with any other proposed hydrolox setups - like Titan variants.

I think you are reading it wrong.   But more importantly adding 50% more of zero is still zero.

Most of the "proposed" setups in this case being entirely new stages that have not been built into BDB.   Only Gamma re-uses a non uniquely Hydrolox stage and coverts it with parts (internal ones that we can't see)  from another Hydrolox stage.    That being said, I Think, EXCEPTING VEGA, things look OK.

To your comment about Titan, in every case that I have data for, the Titan Hydrolox stage would have been 2.5m or larger KSP scale, not 1.875m    so... new stage new parts not re-using any of the non hydrolox parts.

Remember, the Hydrolox LR87 was developed for SATURN not TITAN.   And I am Hoping that we get a 4x S-IVB engine plate for 4 LR87 Hydrolox engines...   or a 10x S-II plate for the same reason   or alternatively we get the DUAL LR87 Hydrolox that the production model would have likely been

 

I know an argument could be made that LDC /Hercules parts need the boiloff function somewhat similar to Centaur as it is a kitbash of several different proposals including one Hydrolox one.   And I haven't checked to see if they have any such Boiloff setting in the cfgs.  

 

Here are the two NON LDC Hydrolox Titan proposals over the years I have any sort of hard data on (thanks to Ed Kyle for making nice graphics showing size and dimensions)

as you can see 2x of the 4 Hydrolox Titans actually subsitute CENTAUR for the 2nd stage and that is what makes them Hydrolox.   The other two, both cases have over large diameters meaning not standard Titan I through IV hardware

http://www.spacelaunchreport.com/titannot.html

[Adam-Kerman]