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[1.8.1-1.11.2] Bluedog Design Bureau - Stockalike Saturn, Apollo, and more! (v1.7.3 "Огромный" 19/Apr/2021)


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Just make note that IRL, most of the satellite would've been covered in foil, likely gold (although KH-11 seems to be silver, so I'm not sure), like the detached front section of that exhibit. This ugly tan color is inaccurate for an on-orbit craft.

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31 minutes ago, MashAndBangers said:

I just remembered I live next to the National Air Force Museum here in Dayton Ohio.  And guess what they have?

https://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/Visit/Museum-Exhibits/Fact-Sheets/Display/Article/195921/hexagon-kh-9-reconnaissance-satellite/

So now I can build it in KSP and go visit it RL  :D

Nice! I have all the images on that page saved :)

 

13 minutes ago, Dragon01 said:

Just make note that IRL, most of the satellite would've been covered in foil, likely gold (although KH-11 seems to be silver, so I'm not sure), like the detached front section of that exhibit. This ugly tan color is inaccurate for an on-orbit craft.

13AZRDU.png

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4 hours ago, MashAndBangers said:

I just remembered I live next to the National Air Force Museum here in Dayton Ohio.  And guess what they have?

https://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/Visit/Museum-Exhibits/Fact-Sheets/Display/Article/195921/hexagon-kh-9-reconnaissance-satellite/

So now I can build it in KSP and go visit it RL  :D

Something I didn't notice before.   And I don't know if I should be insulted or go "yeah that fits."

There is a Fisher (err That is to Say General Motors)  P-75 Eagle behind the KH-9 next to my semi truck (XB-70)    As I recall more than one Congress Critter wanted the heads of every Executive at GM over that fiasco.

And yet the Eagle has a fresh coat of polish while the national Treasure of XB-70 AV-01 is deteriorating at an alarming rate (Notes a non design or build brace on the inside of the right Vertical)

And for those wanting to know why I called the XB-70 my semi truck.   If were to ever own one... well it has 10 wheels!   And of of-course my next car is a F-14E Super Tomcat (4 wheels)

4 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

<Snipped all the pretty pictures>

Cobalt, you challenged us to do a Hexoran (or whatever it was called)   Does that mean the Engine bus, the Return bus and the Camera Core are going to be separate parts?   You know, so we can insert a KH-10 in the middle of the Engine bus and the Return bus.

10 hours ago, Zorg said:

Glad you’re enjoying it! Yeah for efficient coverage you kind of have to actively manage them. Use a bit of fine tuning on the orbital periods and trigger the start of a scan when passing over unmapped areas. Alternatively just spam LKO with a dozen or so sats :P all the the spirit of the Keyhole program. 
 

Oh and I don't know if I made the return bucket correctly.   When I ejected the Parachute there was a large gap between the engine and the bucket.   If I am supposed to jettison the Engine.. well   I didn't see any other parts when I searched by part name (#tag)

 

If I had time I would test it this AM... But alas, I have to head to work (I love when 2 of my 3 morning appointments cancel 12 hours before shift!)

 

Edited by Pappystein
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2 minutes ago, Pappystein said:

 

Oh and I don't know if I made the return bucket correctly.   When I ejected the Parachute there was a large gap between the engine and the bucket.   If I am supposed to jettison the Engine.. well   I didn't see any other parts when I searched by part name (#tag)

 

Build it like so:

1. place Probe core

2. Attach parachute to probe core (black panel facing down of course)

3. Attach heat shield to the probe core

4. Attach retro pack to the bottom edge of the heat shield

The decoupler on the heat-shield will eject the engine, the decoupler on the probe core will eject the heat shield

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22 minutes ago, Zorg said:

Build it like so:

1. place Probe core

2. Attach parachute to probe core (black panel facing down of course)

3. Attach heat shield to the probe core

4. Attach retro pack to the bottom edge of the heat shield

The decoupler on the heat-shield will eject the engine, the decoupler on the probe core will eject the heat shield

I might change it so that it can simply be built as a stack. The current solution feels hard to build unless the return capsule is your starting/root part.

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1 hour ago, Pappystein said:

Cobalt, you challenged us to do a Hexoran (or whatever it was called)   Does that mean the Engine bus, the Return bus and the Camera Core are going to be separate parts?   You know, so we can insert a KH-10 in the middle of the Engine bus and the Return bus.

The parts are about as split up as they can be. The way I currently have it listed out:

  • Service module (1.875m silver part, launches exposed... technically called the Satellite Control Section)
  • Launch adapter (small orange ring, not in the pictures... I think it needs to provide space for the solar panels, and the service engine dangles into the instrument truss)
  • Service Engine (it looks neat and would be fun to use elsewhere as a low power monoprop based engine for like, resupply vehicles)
  • Fairing base (that small back ring between the silver SM and the yellow/black camera segment. So this is where you spawn the fairing that covers the rest of the SV ((SV is the term used in documents to refer to the whole vehicle)))
  • Camera System (will need to have like... some built in adapters of its own, or at least a toggle for that "lip" that connects to the adapter truss)
  • Primary RCS (the pods on the outside of the service module)
  • Lifeboat RCS (the small gold RCS that goes on the inside of the base of the service module)
  • Adapter SRV Truss (holds the first return bucket and connects to the unique profile on the front of the camera... like I said the front of the camera will probably have some alternate mesh options)
  • SRV Truss (so you place 3 of them in a row to get the remaining film buckets... I realized afterwards this would actually be necessary anyways so that you can decouple the SRVs individually)
  • Mapping Camera (so would be available separately, and I suppose you could find other solutions for mounting it...)
  • VHF Antenna (or UHF, I can't remember... what's this about it folding Pappy? I don't have a lot of info on it so far)
  • Solar Panels (these might actually kill me. Trying to understand how they work/unfoled is m i s e r a b l e. Worst case, they just don't have the scissor-style and just have little hinges)
  • Mk8 SRV Heatshield (unfortunately, despite my hopes, this won't nicely fit as a "0.9375m SRV" complement to the 0.625m Mk5 SRV.
  • Mk8 SRV Pod (there's enough variation to warrant a second one)
  • Mk8 SRV Parachute (the parachute is really neat looking, actually)
  • Mk8 SRV Retro Pack (this is interesting - the little solid is on a truss extending away from the SRV. Someone suggested it might have to do with the film path but idk. I don't know the order the buckers were returned)

 

10 hours ago, Pappystein said:

Cobalt/Zorg, is the Nimbus Solar Panel supposed to have Tracking enabled?   I swear that when I was in game it stated it was a "Tracking" Solar Panel.     But there was ZERO visual Sun Tracking in game.   I did seem to get power from just about every angle...   But I did not spend a lot of time looking at it because I was trying to figure out my new PC Hardware problems and KSP was being played more for a troubleshooting step (with all the mods I have KSP could get laggy on my old i7.)

So, I ran into a problem since the panels need to be folded as like... mirror images of eachother? So I tried to use the mirrored solar panel module @Jso wrote for the Skylab panels... but I think it breaks on tracking panels. In general my install has been acting *weird* with solar panels so I wasn't sure what was going on. I still need to circle back to Nimbus to finish it so I had planned on addressing it then, but idk what to do about it. Best case might be Jso taking a look at it and seeing if the mirrored panel module can be fixed.

 

EDIT: I thought it would merge replies but I took too long

EDIT2: Another great document we found https://www.nro.gov/Portals/65/documents/foia/declass/mapping1.pdf

EDIT3: @Pappystein I see what you mean about the antenna, it's on a little arm and when deployed the axis of the helix aims towards the earth. That explains the arm-sans-helix in the one at the NMUSAF

JfDtjSR.png

noHGsjf.jpg

 

Edited by CobaltWolf
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3 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

Mk8 SRV Retro Pack (this is interesting - the little solid is on a truss extending away from the SRV. Someone suggested it might have to do with the film path but idk. I don't know the order the buckers were returned)

CCoBsC8.jpg

140220-F-IO108-009.JPG

160822-F-IO108-024.JPG

I'd say make it two parts - a truss with tiny RCS thruster and 0.3125m mounting ring (basically a "baby Burner"), and a 0.3125m monoprop engine. Or simply reuse Staara 10, which represents all the small Star solids.

What is more interesting, what exactly is that little solid?

Here's an archived image of old Thiokol site: https://web.archive.org/web/20000816210350/http://www.thiokol.com/STAR5-27.htm

It is most likely NOT a Star 10\12(A) which was used in Corona\Gambit buckets - it appears to be larger than 12 inches. Star 17, maybe? Or some custom and\or non-Thiokol model?

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6 minutes ago, Krakatoa said:

Would you look at the color on that KH? Almost exactly the one being shown by Cobalt. Turns out foil isn't necessarily the most accurate.

While the color of the body of the KH is accurate, irl before the KH is launched into orbit, it is wrapped in a silver insulating blanket (MLI) for thermal protection. However, MLI is extremely difficult to produce in KSP in a good quality for a variety of reasons(many of which being how KSP itself works), and it gets even more difficult to create a seamless, good-looking, stockalike/restockalike texture on a strangely-shaped/larger objects such as the KH9. So at the end of the day, despite being less historically accurate per-se, it would be higher in overall quality and more in line with the style of the other parts in BDB to not use the MLI. Personally I love the tan! I think adds some variety as most spacecraft parts are inherently a gray/metallic color.

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4 hours ago, Pappystein said:

And yet the Eagle has a fresh coat of polish while the national Treasure of XB-70 AV-01 is deteriorating at an alarming rate (Notes a non design or build brace on the inside of the right Vertical

 

Before besmirching the volunteers and professionals at the NMUSAF, I would have done a little more research.

1) The braces (there'ss one for each rudder) have been there since the plane was put on display. They are gust locks for the rudders and they are part of the support kit that was developed for the aircraft.  There are pictures of AV-01 with these installed at Edwards in a couple of books I have and there is a photo on the NMUSAF website of AV-01 when it arrived from Edwards with them installed - https://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/Visit/Museum-Exhibits/Fact-Sheets/Display/Article/195767/north-american-xb-70-valkyrie/

2) If you look at that web page, they detail the work done to preserve the aircraft, including washing it thoroughly, when it was moved from the former Test Hangar to the new Hangar 4 in 2015.  It's also important to note that AV-01 and AV-02 were *NOT* hangared during their operational lives.  Since AV-01 arrived at the NMUSAF, it has been on permanent display in a hangar, indoors, in a temperature and humidity controlled environment.  Under no circumstance can that be called adverse to the continued conservation of any aircraft.  There are additional photos of the interior showing the interior to be in excellent condition.

3) Museums, including the NMUSAF, try to preserve as much as possible and only restore if they must.  The XB-70 came to the NMUSAF as a perfect "capsule" aircraft.  The P-75A's restoration was mainly due to deterioration of the skins from to people touching it, not because it was in a bad environment.  This is the same issue that has been a problem for several aircraft at major museums over the years.  If displayed in bare metal and where they can be touched, the oils on our skin will cause corrosion to start after some time.  This can even happen with painted surfaces, as this was part of what happened with Flak Bait when it was originally displayed within reach of patrons at the Smithsonian Air and Space museum.  With the XB-70 being so large, this isn't as much of a consideration since you can't touch much of it from the ground anyway, even if you did leave it fully unprotected.

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A number of posts have been removed. 

If a modmaker doesn't want to accept your suggestions, go find another mod you like better. You do not get to badger and insult the mod maker. 

If you see someone badgering and insulting a mod maker, do not derail the thread by telling that person off. Just hit the report button and let the moderators deal with it. 

Now please return to the subject at hand. 

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On 1/26/2020 at 11:23 AM, CAPFlyer said:

Before besmirching the volunteers and professionals at the NMUSAF, I would have done a little more research.

I was never attempting to besmirch the Professional nor Volunteers at the USAFM.  I was making a tongue in cheek joke that was A) worded poorly and B) not super appropriate.     I will apologize for all of that

However I do have a point of contention with your statement.    The B-70 AV-01 was on OUTDOOR display from arrival in 1969-1970 time-frame until somewhere in the mid 1980s.  I do not know the exact year she moved indoors but I was able to find photos online of the Valk on outdoor display long enough to be displayed next to the B-1B(B-1A in disguise?) that the NMUSAF has/had in it's possession.   The primary issue with deterioration I was referring to (but never mentioned specifically) was the Stainless Steel Honeycomb (AV-01 being the first large-scale use of such a material.)  I do not think there is anything that the wonderful Volunteers and Professionals at the NMUSAF can do to solve that...  as it is a manufacturing defect that is part of being AV-01 620001.   I will leave this discussion here because there have been too many derailments of this topic already (something I was NOT trying to do.

So Corona Return Bucket (back on topic!)    @Zorg and @CobaltWolf (Pingged in-case this gets merged with previous post)

My issues assembling the Return bucket is a balance "feature" in the Tech tree.    The entire bucket EXCEPT The heat shield was unlocked in my play-through.   I am awaiting KSP bootup to check the actual tree locations and will post them momentarily.   I have still not generated enough science to unlock the Heat shield.     ALSO a Feature/bug with the bucket.   from a 300x150 orbit (retro-ed at Apoapsis) the parts survive re-entry fine without the heat-shield.   I would think at least the Parachute would burn up at that heating level.

Edited by Pappystein
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So another feature.

Titan I-350 Tank will drain from the lower (First Stage) tanks in the Dev Build from 2 days ago.     Will need to be verified as I do have my Hypergolic fuel patch.... but this isn't A Hypergolic rocket so I DOUBT but am uncertain if that is the cause.   It is a Stock Titan I build with the small upper stage tank except I am using the E-1 and I have a Gemini Capsule (no SM) as payload.   I am using the PHYSICAL Titan I Structural adapter between the stages (it has a built in decoupler.)   This adapter needs RealName config as well.

 

RE The Corona bucket.   I was one Science away from unlocking it... So I unlocked it before I unlocked Atlas parts.    /sigh.  The Heat-shield appears to be the only "45" level part.   All other parts appearing before it.

Edited by Pappystein
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13 hours ago, Pappystein said:

So another feature.

Titan I-350 Tank will drain from the lower (First Stage) tanks in the Dev Build from 2 days ago.     Will need to be verified as I do have my Hypergolic fuel patch.... but this isn't A Hypergolic rocket so I DOUBT but am uncertain if that is the cause.   It is a Stock Titan I build with the small upper stage tank except I am using the E-1 and I have a Gemini Capsule (no SM) as payload.   I am using the PHYSICAL Titan I Structural adapter between the stages (it has a built in decoupler.)   This adapter needs RealName config as well.

I am not sure I follow... what exactly is your staging? And how is the small tank draining from the lower tanks? (how could a full tank attached to an engine not even running drain from and active stage below or did I misunderstand what you meant?)

orOyVoll.png

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Did that rocket start draining the S2 smaller tank when the big tanks were empty? I made a PR that added a crossfeed toggle to that part, as it brings it inline with other decouplers/interstages anyway.

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10 minutes ago, Rodger said:

Did that rocket start draining the S2 smaller tank when the big tanks were empty? I made a PR that added a crossfeed toggle to that part, as it brings it inline with other decouplers/interstages anyway.

Oh lol I didnt get that far. I get it now lol. Will merge the PR, thanks

Edited by Zorg
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10 hours ago, Rodger said:

Did that rocket start draining the S2 smaller tank when the big tanks were empty? I made a PR that added a crossfeed toggle to that part, as it brings it inline with other decouplers/interstages anyway.

Thank you that is it in one.    Thankfully it didn't matter in my launch because I was going for Sub-orbital (and I had a tweakscaled MOL control at 1.5m between the heatshield and the Gemini capsule...   Yay 2 Tourists at once and no 45 science nodes unlocked.

 

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2 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

Sorry to cut the stream short everyone! Sometimes the Adderall just doesn't hold as well as I think it will. I'll try again tomorrow night and see if I can get this stuff done and in game!

What a big loveing mood

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On 1/23/2020 at 3:59 PM, Dragon01 said:

Some interesting info here, in particular about the propulsion system, and how it relates to KH-11 and possibly HST service modules:
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=23851.20

I'd like to add that Lockheed's 1979 study of the Power Module recommended the use of the HST's "SSM" service module architecture.

img%5D

 

I briefly considered making MSFC's Power Module my first part mod project in KSP before I regained my sanity.

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