[1.12.5] Bluedog Design Bureau - Stockalike Saturn, Apollo, and more! (v1.13.0 "Забытый" 13/Aug/2023)

[alberro+]

Can't wait to see some of that Delta IV. 

p.s We're getting awfully close to 700 pages.

Edited September 3, 2020 by alberro+

[Emilius73]

IMO I don't think a BDB shuttle would be necessary with SOCK and reDIRECT parts. Although those two mods are rarely updated since Benjee (iirc) is working by himself. Those mods (along with HabTech2) deserve larger dev teams. They're amazing.

[llikooid]

5 minutes ago, Emilius73 said:

IMO I don't think a BDB shuttle would be necessary with SOCK and reDIRECT parts. Although those two mods are rarely updated since Benjee (iirc) is working by himself. Those mods (along with HabTech2) deserve larger dev teams. They're amazing.

agree, banjee deserve larger dev teams! SOCK, reDIRECT, HabTech2 was amazing mods i cant wait for reDIRECT new SLS parts i want the Block 2 version with new SRBs so i can make a video about Artemis program in KSP  hopefully i understand how to make a mod so i can help him

[Emilius73]

2 minutes ago, llikooid said:

agree, banjee deserve larger dev teams! SOCK, reDIRECT, HabTech2 was amazing mods i cant wait for reDIRECT new SLS parts i want the Block 2 version with new SRBs so i can make a video about Artemis program in KSP  hopefully i understand how to make a mod so i can help him

Hopefully @benjee10 considers building a large dev team for his mods!

[CobaltWolf]

On 9/2/2020 at 3:30 AM, GoldForest said:

But that would make Saturn Mk 2 a "Modern rocket" and @CobaltWolf Has said they don't want to do anything modern. So I'm still confused. Also, when did they talk about bringing the Saturn V back? I only remember hearing about the engines, but not the rocket itself.

17 hours ago, Zorg said:

He did it because it was a direct derivative of an existing engine and it was easy to add in using the existing powerhead. It doesnt have to match a specific IRL rocket that belongs in BDB much the same way the 8096C agena engine (meant for resuable Shuttle agena) doesnt imply there will be a BDB shuttle.

Most importantly its a very cool looking engine.

For similar reasons I am making the white nozzle RS68B which was planned for Ares V but you can be sure there will not be a BDB Ares V .

Not until the Saturn revamp begins.

Yeah, it's really just because I realized how easy it would be to do and F-1B. I think it took me like... 4 hours total? Which is nothing for a new part/variant. Of course... then I went to put it in game and realized it had the same thrust as an F-1A for a not-insignificant ISP hit... It's... cheaper I guess?

Like Zorg said, once you've modeled the engine, most variants are just going to be a different nozzle with maybe one or two new pipes. That's fairly easy to do, and hey, I have no qualms with giving people more upgrades to get more performance out of their rockets. And conversely, that's why I haven't given much thought at all to the Agena 2000. It's a frankenengine cobbled out of a bunch of different bits and pieces IRL, and would essentially be an entirely new engine to model, unwrap, and texture. 

 

On 9/2/2020 at 3:30 AM, GoldForest said:

 @CobaltWolf Has stated they might change the size of the saturn rocket to fit more real world sizes.

"He", btw.   In case you weren't sure and were trying not to assume.

 

11 hours ago, Clamp-o-Tron said:

I'm sorry- reusable Shuttle-Agena? I see the paper (https://core.ac.uk/reader/80647720), but it includes no reference as far as I can tell for any reuse of the stage. Are you referring to maybe re-attachment of the Agena to shuttle after it boosts a payload, or some sort of heatshield for the main engine? If this is real, I'd love a source. The mid-70s shuttle stuff is very cool, a nice glimpse into an alternate timeline with decent NASA budgets and less cut corners pertaining to crew safety.

9 hours ago, Zorg said:

I dont remember whats up with the naming conventions since the BDB one is called 8096C and this one refers to L, but this is the paper. The shuttle recovers the Agena after it returns to the shuttle parking orbit following payload deployment to a higher orbit. The strapon tanks are expected to be recovered but can be optionally jettisoned if the mission needs more performance. https://ntrs.nasa.gov/citations/19740024172

If I remember, there are several sets of studies (ie multiple PDFs for each). I believe I have PDFs for something called Shuttle Agena (slightly longer with a bigger bell, meant as an interim upper stage for Shuttle), Reusable Agena (Shuttle Agena but designed with the drop tanks to get more out of it, essentially would return with just the Agena itself I think), as well as something called "Growth Agena" which is where the 8096C came from. That's the one that has different geometry to the thrust chamber. This is all from what I remember, I didn't open them back up for this. If I remember, the Shuttle/Reusable Agena studies kind of interchangeably use "B" and "L" while also portraying a wide variety of nozzle extensions on them. It's all a bit vague and wooly.

 

12 hours ago, GoldForest said:

Hmmm... why do I get the feeling you guys are pulling are leg and have something big planned for 1.9 and are just nickel and diming parts in to get things ready for whatever you guys are planning...

11 hours ago, Clamp-o-Tron said:

Not straight out denying it seems like a pretty good sign that something is in the works. I would imagine it wouldn't be just a shuttle clone, since we have SOCK for that, but...

EDIT: noticed I misread it, but as @GoldForest said, the massive scope of this update seems a bit strange.

  Reveal hidden contents

...maybe???

Yeah, we're on to them. Or maybe @Zorg just got bored of cruelly denying us of Delta 4.

9 hours ago, Zorg said:

The huge size of this update is just the way things turned out due to various internal factors but there wont be any additional scope creep beyond whats currently on the github tracking issues. The F1B in particular was a very spontaneous thing following a suggestion from Pappystein on Cobalts stream. In fact the only real big addition to the update was Delta IV but you guys want that right???

I am straight out denying it! No one on the team has even so much suggested a shuttle or a spaceplane of any sort for BDB!!

8 hours ago, GoldForest said:

IIRC @CobaltWolf has said the only shuttle they would even consider adding would be the Dynasaur, but @Well created one and so I think the idea died off.

Yeah. I mean this, genuinely, there isn't anything planned for the future that we haven't previously discussed. (actually, see the bottom of this post I'm going to try and give a brief update on our status)

Delta IV is happening since Zorg decided to throw y'all a bone since apparently he doesn't share my complete apathy towards Delta IV

This update is huge since I felt, with how interconnected all the smaller/earlier stuff is, it made sense to try to "rip the band-aid" and replace essentially everything in one go. Last I counted we were approaching 400 new/remade parts in this update, we're easily past that now. In fairness, at the pace I was working from October to March, an update of this scale shouldn't have taken this long, but the lockdown and a lot of other stuff meant that my work has slowed down a lot in recent months.

I have started to see more and more people using the current 1.6.x releases which made me sad that they weren't getting to play with the new stuff, so that made me want to start wrapping this update.

 

1 hour ago, Emilius73 said:

IMO I don't think a BDB shuttle would be necessary with SOCK and reDIRECT parts. Although those two mods are rarely updated since Benjee (iirc) is working by himself. Those mods (along with HabTech2) deserve larger dev teams. They're amazing.

1 hour ago, llikooid said:

agree, banjee deserve larger dev teams! SOCK, reDIRECT, HabTech2 was amazing mods i cant wait for reDIRECT new SLS parts i want the Block 2 version with new SRBs so i can make a video about Artemis program in KSP  hopefully i understand how to make a mod so i can help him

1 hour ago, Emilius73 said:

Hopefully @benjee10 considers building a large dev team for his mods!

My understanding is that Benjee10, being a full time freelance animator, is usually fairly busy and can only work on KSP stuff in short bursts. Sad, since his stuff is incredible

 

 

 

Alright, so.
PROGRESS UPDATE

As of now, the Delta IV is planned to basically be the last thing added for this update. I need to comb through stuff a bit and try and clear out the Github issues, but we're ready to start moving towards a release. I wouldn't hold your breath for September.

As such, I need people who are playing with they dev builds to please, please, please, keep a sharp eye out for bugs, issues, anything that feels "wrong" so we can take care of it. I kind of hate releasing updates since then we're suddenly, like, responsible for it all actually working right. Off the top of my head, I'm pretty worried about most of the new science instruments and their balance, whether or not they work right, etc. I usually have been doing the bare minimum to just get them in game and then forgetting so I can move on to new parts.

After this, I think we might try to do a smaller release to include some of the bigger things that got left out of this update but were already underway: Mariner 10, KH-9 Hexagon... not sure what else. Assuming people still want them. And then, the grueling process of setting about updating the Saturn and Apollo parts would start and that's going to be, god, definitely at least 6 months of work probably? Part of why this current dev cycle got the running start it did was I already had a great deal of the stuff modeled for it. I haven't even started collecting reference material for Saturn... oh god it's going to be so hard now that NTRS is ruined... again.

 

 

[alberro+]

24 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

PROGRESS UPDATE

As of now, the Delta IV is planned to basically be the last thing added for this update. I need to comb through stuff a bit and try and clear out the Github issues, but we're ready to start moving towards a release. I wouldn't hold your breath for September.

As such, I need people who are playing with they dev builds to please, please, please, keep a sharp eye out for bugs, issues, anything that feels "wrong" so we can take care of it. I kind of hate releasing updates since then we're suddenly, like, responsible for it all actually working right. Off the top of my head, I'm pretty worried about most of the new science instruments and their balance, whether or not they work right, etc. I usually have been doing the bare minimum to just get them in game and then forgetting so I can move on to new parts.

After this, I think we might try to do a smaller release to include some of the bigger things that got left out of this update but were already underway: Mariner 10, KH-9 Hexagon... not sure what else. Assuming people still want them. And then, the grueling process of setting about updating the Saturn and Apollo parts would start and that's going to be, god, definitely at least 6 months of work probably? Part of why this current dev cycle got the running start it did was I already had a great deal of the stuff modeled for it. I haven't even started collecting reference material for Saturn... oh god it's going to be so hard now that NTRS is ruined... again.

 

 

This has to be the most beautiful collection of words I have ever seen. It's truly insane the amount of effort that goes into BDB, and I really can't thank you guys enough. 

 

Spoiler

SATURN REVAMP BOYSSSS

HYPE IS INBOUND

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, CobaltWolf said:

Alright, so.
PROGRESS UPDATE

As of now, the Delta IV is planned to basically be the last thing added for this update. I need to comb through stuff a bit and try and clear out the Github issues, but we're ready to start moving towards a release. I wouldn't hold your breath for September.

As such, I need people who are playing with they dev builds to please, please, please, keep a sharp eye out for bugs, issues, anything that feels "wrong" so we can take care of it. I kind of hate releasing updates since then we're suddenly, like, responsible for it all actually working right. Off the top of my head, I'm pretty worried about most of the new science instruments and their balance, whether or not they work right, etc. I usually have been doing the bare minimum to just get them in game and then forgetting so I can move on to new parts.

After this, I think we might try to do a smaller release to include some of the bigger things that got left out of this update but were already underway: Mariner 10, KH-9 Hexagon... not sure what else. Assuming people still want them. And then, the grueling process of setting about updating the Saturn and Apollo parts would start and that's going to be, god, definitely at least 6 months of work probably? Part of why this current dev cycle got the running start it did was I already had a great deal of the stuff modeled for it. I haven't even started collecting reference material for Saturn... oh god it's going to be so hard now that NTRS is ruined... again.

When is the next update?

[Manny.38]

There is an error with the f1-b plume - there is unburnt propellant coming out of the main nozzle (like how it is for other f1 variants) instead of out of the pipe connected to the gas generator.

Edited September 3, 2020 by Manny.38

[golkaidakhaana]

1 hour ago, gabo04 said:

When is the next update?

When it s done .

[KeaKaka]

14 hours ago, GoldForest said:

 Dynasaur, 

Dyna-Soar. (Sorry I care far too much)

4 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

As such, I need people who are playing with they dev builds to please, please, please, keep a sharp eye out for bugs, issues, anything that feels "wrong" so we can take care of it. 

Alright then, bug report! The command and control functions on the regular DCSS are a little... off. They don't seem to work without an engine running, and will display togglable SAS functions while being uncontrollable. It will also just lose all control once a payload is separated, even with full batteries and if the thing it just deployed is a relay satellite. 

Edited September 3, 2020 by KeaKaka

[northern]

if you are doing a Saturn revamp is there anyway you can make an adapter for between the SIC and the External tank from redirect/SOIC please? like in this image? 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn-Shuttle#/media/File:Saturn-Shuttle_model_at_Udvar-Hazy_Center.jpg 

[Zorg]

57 minutes ago, Manny.38 said:

There is an error with the f1-b plume - there is unburnt propellant coming out of the main nozzle (like how it is for other f1 variants) instead of out of the pipe connected to the gas generator.

Theres a bunch of plume fixes I need to do soon, Vega, RL0 etc. Hopefully over the weekend.

[Emilius73]

A year or two ago I got this mod only for the Saturn V really. Now I got it again and started using the Deltas, Atlas and Titans. Loving it! Definitely up there as one of the greatest mods of all time.

[Friznit]

4 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

As such, I need people who are playing with they dev builds to please, please, please, keep a sharp eye out for bugs, issues, anything that feels "wrong" so we can take care of it.

Same detail for the documentation on the (unofficial) wiki: if anyone spots problems with the dev guides (which is all in the Issues tab until release) please let me know by dropping a comment on github - whether it's out of date images, incorrect labels, missing stuff or just not very clear instructions.

I can attest to the amount of work going into this update, if for no other reason I've found myself updating updates to the updates 

[JoeSheridan]

1 hour ago, Emilius73 said:

A year or two ago I got this mod only for the Saturn V really. Now I got it again and started using the Deltas, Atlas and Titans. Loving it! Definitely up there as one of the greatest mods of all time.

For me it war nearly the same.... at first i was primarily interested in the beautifull Saturn / Sarnus V, the Apollo CSM´s and the early Atlas-Variants..... but that switched towars a high use of Sarturn MB´s, the Saturn V was used in my actual safe only two times..... The Deltas and Titans have around 20 launches each...

I love this mod and i really hope that it will get to KSP 2 in the same brilliance as you are bringing it into KSP 1

[Guest]

2 hours ago, KeaKaka said:

Dyna-Soar.

Dyna-Soar is one of my favorite concepts. 

[JoeSheridan]

16 minutes ago, Friznit said:

Same detail for the documentation on the (unofficial) wiki: if anyone spots problems with the dev guides (which is all in the Issues tab until release) please let me know by dropping a comment on github - whether it's out of date images, incorrect labels, missing stuff or just not very clear instructions.

I think you are making a good job with this wiki, your images are perfect. You make good exploded views of the vehicles. This wiki is a good building source, even for people that know the basic designs of that vehicles.

In fact i just made a comment into the dev-branch of the wiki  I think there is a little mistake regarding the ETS Delta´s

Edited September 3, 2020 by JoeSheridan

[golkaidakhaana]

2 hours ago, northern said:

if you are doing a Saturn revamp is there anyway you can make an adapter for between the SIC and the External tank from redirect/SOIC please? like in this image? 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn-Shuttle#/media/File:Saturn-Shuttle_model_at_Udvar-Hazy_Center.jpg 

The saturn revamp is pretty far away .

[Bellabong]

All this Saturn talk, fitting for my first CSM+LM launch

[biohazard15]

6 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

As such, I need people who are playing with they dev builds to please, please, please, keep a sharp eye out for bugs, issues, anything that feels "wrong" so we can take care of it.

Okaay

- Agena MPA: Does not work like advertised at all. I've been using my own patch for this - basically copies what Well did with Ariane 5 MPA, additional node floating above the base.

- Gemini-B retro adapter: There is no way to place retro motors in 6x symmetry, since it autoreverts to 4x. Funny enough, it was possible at release. Again, I use my own patch for this (sets stackSymmetry = 5 instead of 3, like it was at release), but there's a caveat - you have to place them using node adjacent to the black box, any other node would result in bugged placement.

- GATV fairing: I guess you know what's wrong with it I suggest making it a SAF module for GATV docking ring.

6 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

Mariner 10, KH-9 Hexagon... not sure what else.

Aww, no KH-9 in 1.7

There's also Pioneer Venus, and most importantly, KH-8-style solar panels. Please consider making the latter for 1.7, not for 1.7.x - it's surprisingly (and incredibly) hard to find solar panels that fit into Agena interstage and do not collide with it on staging.

[GoldForest]

4 hours ago, golkaidakhaana said:

The saturn revamp is pretty far away .

Not really. Saturn update is the one right after this one. Saturn update will be BDB 1.8.

[golkaidakhaana]

2 minutes ago, GoldForest said:

Not really. Saturn update is the one right after this one. Saturn update will be BDB 1.8.

I know , that s still reasonably far away . Far enough away that making requests for the saturn revamp is pointless , at the moment .

[GoldForest]

1 hour ago, golkaidakhaana said:

I know , that s still reasonably far away . Far enough away that making requests for the saturn revamp is pointless , at the moment .

Cobalt has said this update is 1 maybe 2 possibly 3 months away. I think Saturn requests are fine at this point.

[derega16]

About Saturn revamp I have some request

1.Long interstage for Saturn NERVA

2.a 3.75m two F-1 engine mount as none of BDB engine mount can be rescale to that size and able to handle two F-1 without clipping

Edited September 4, 2020 by derega16

[Guest]

I don't think there'll be much 3.75m in the Saturn revamp. Sizes will go up to be more realistic, and then Saturn I will be 4.375m. I think S-IV might be 3.75m elements, but it'll probably be the only part in that size.

Under standard BDB calculation, lower stage sizes for Saturn C-series are 4.375m (C-1, C-2), 5m (C-3, C-4), 6.25m (C-5) and 7.5m (C-8). We're talking big.  Even Saturn I, the smallest rocket in the series, uses a first stage that's second only to SLS and Shuttle-derived designs in diameter.