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[1.12.5] Bluedog Design Bureau - Stockalike Saturn, Apollo, and more! (v1.13.0 "Забытый" 13/Aug/2023)

CobaltWolf

By CobaltWolf
in KSP1 Mod Releases

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Hay

Hay

Posted
Posted (edited)

Is someone here well-versed in the art of cfg's? I've been working on a cfg that'll rescale some of the Saturn V parts so I can build the Saturn C-3 and 4. So far most of the parts turned out well, except for the S-IV and S-IVB interstages. Help will be appreciated. 

+PART[bluedog_Saturn_S4_Interstage
]
{
	@name = bluedog_Saturn_S4C34_Interstage
	@MODEL
	{
		%scale = 1.25, 1.25, 1.25
	}
    @node_stack_top[1,,] *= 1.25
	@node_stack_bottom[1,,] *= 1.25
	@title = Sarnus-SIVB-C3&C4 Interstage
    @mass *= 0.625
    @description = 4.6875m to 3.75m Saturn interstage
    @tags = 4.6875m 3.75m Saturn Sarnus ?s4 ?siv inter interstage huge c3 c4
}
+PART[bluedog_Saturn_S4B_WideInterstage
]
{
	@name = bluedog_Saturn_S4BC34_WideInterstage
	@MODEL
	{
		%scale = 1.25, 1.25, 1.25
	}
    @node_stack_top[1,,] *= 1.25
	@node_stack_bottom[1,,] *= 1.25
	@title = Sarnus-SIV-C3&C4 Interstage
    @mass *= 0.625
    @description = 4.6875m to 3.125m Saturn interstage
    @tags = 4.6875m 3.125m Saturn Sarnus ?s4 ?s4b ?siv ?sivb inter interstage huge c3 c4
}

 

Edited by Hay
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CobaltWolf

CobaltWolf

Posted
  • Author
Posted
8 minutes ago, Hay said:

Is someone here well-versed in the art of cfg's? I've been working on a cfg that'll rescale some of the Saturn V parts so I can build the Saturn C-3 and 4. So far most of the parts turned out well, except for the S-IV and S-IVB interstages. Help will be appreciated. 


+PART[bluedog_Saturn_S4_Interstage
]
{
	@name = bluedog_Saturn_S4C34_Interstage
	@MODEL
	{
		%scale = 1.25, 1.25, 1.25
	}
    @node_stack_top[1,,] *= 1.25
	@node_stack_bottom[1,,] *= 1.25
	@title = Sarnus-SIVB-C3&C4 Interstage
    @mass *= 0.625
    @description = 4.6875m to 3.75m Saturn interstage
    @tags = 4.6875m 3.75m Saturn Sarnus ?s4 ?siv inter interstage huge c3 c4
}
+PART[bluedog_Saturn_S4B_WideInterstage
]
{
	@name = bluedog_Saturn_S4BC34_WideInterstage
	@MODEL
	{
		%scale = 1.25, 1.25, 1.25
	}
    @node_stack_top[1,,] *= 1.25
	@node_stack_bottom[1,,] *= 1.25
	@title = Sarnus-SIV-C3&C4 Interstage
    @mass *= 0.625
    @description = 4.6875m to 3.125m Saturn interstage
    @tags = 4.6875m 3.125m Saturn Sarnus ?s4 ?s4b ?siv ?sivb inter interstage huge c3 c4
}

 

unless the size ratio you're adapting to is the same (for example, a 2.5m>1.875m adapter can be rescaled to a 1.25m>0.9375m adapter) then you can't do it through pure.cfg edits. You need to actually unpack the .mu in blender and scale it properly.

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Hay

Hay

Posted
Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

unless the size ratio you're adapting to is the same (for example, a 2.5m>1.875m adapter can be rescaled to a 1.25m>0.9375m adapter) then you can't do it through pure.cfg edits. You need to actually unpack the .mu in blender and scale it properly.

I'm sorry for being very unclear, but that's not the main problem. I just redid my calculations and you're right about the 3.75->3.125 adapter: 3.75÷3.125=1.2   4.6825÷3.75=1.25 . The 5.625->3.75 adapter on the other hand should work: 5.625÷3.75=1.5   4.6875÷3.125=1.5 . But the main problem is that for some reason it still won't show up in-game. But thank you for your help.

Edited by Hay
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Drakenex

Drakenex

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Hay said:

I'm sorry for being very unclear, but that's not the main problem. I just redid my calculations and you're right about the 3.75->3.125 adapter: 3.75÷3.125=1.2   4.6825÷3.75=1.25 . The 5.625->3.75 adapter on the other hand should work: 5.625÷3.75=1.5   4.6875÷3.125=1.5 . But the main problem is that for some reason it still won't show up in-game. But thank you for your help.

Pls send me the cfg’s by PM and I’ll look at them.

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Pappystein

Pappystein

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Hay said:

I'm sorry for being very unclear, but that's not the main problem. I just redid my calculations and you're right about the 3.75->3.125 adapter: 3.75÷3.125=1.2   4.6825÷3.75=1.25 . The 5.625->3.75 adapter on the other hand should work: 5.625÷3.75=1.5   4.6875÷3.125=1.5 . But the main problem is that for some reason it still won't show up in-game. But thank you for your help.

I chose to go a different route with my C-2 rocket.

 

I took the Saturn IVB Fuel tank and then shortened it.   Making the S-IVC (Optional part) available earlier at a higher cost gave me my twin J-2 Saturn C-2 S-III stage.    S-IB first stage, S-III 2nd Stage, S-IVB 3rd Stage and CSM/LLM uppers = Saturn C-2.    Needs SRMs to launch both Apollo and the lander but...  Neat rocket.   By Going this route, I am still able to use the later ETS Saturn IE first stage and I just have 2x of the 3.75 to 3.75 Saturn 1 Inter-stages to contend with.   My Vision of the Saturn C-2 or C-3 is they would have evolved to production after S-IB so no need to use the S-IVA upper stage.   Please note the tankage volume is completely a WAG based upon two drawings (no hard numbers were used in the creation of these parts!)

While I am still playing with my own S-III stage (Nodes are not correct.)  Here is what I have:

Spoiler

+PART[bluedog_Saturn_S4B_EngineMount]
{
    @name = bluedog_Saturn_S3A_EngineMount
    @cost = 3000
    @TechRequired = heavyRocketry
    %node_stack_engine2 = 0.7, -0.866, 0.0, 0.0, -1.0, 0.0, 2
    %node_stack_engine3 = -0.7, -0.866, 0.0, 0.0, -1.0, 0.0, 2
    @title = Sarnus-S3 Engine Mount
        @description = Engine mount for dual 'Dnoces' cryogenic upper stage engines. Part of the Sarnus-C2 Rocket
    @tags = saturn sarnus ?s3 ?sIII first stage fuel tank large big ets multibody
    %stackSymmetry = 1
}

 


+PART[bluedog_Saturn_S4B_Tankage]
{
    @name = Pafftek_Saturn_S3_Tankage
    @MODEL
    {
        %scale = 1, 0.60, 1
    }
    @Drakenex
    @node_stack_top[1,,] *= 0.60
    @node_stack_bottom[1,,] *= 0.60
    @title = Sarnus-SIII Liquid Fuel Tank
    @mass *= 0.55
    @description = Medium sized 3.75m liquid hydrogen tank for mid stages.
    @tags = Saturn Sarnus ?s3 ?sIII 3.75m lho fuel oxidizer hydrolox liquid hydrogen cryo tank ets multibody
    
    @RESOURCE[LqdHydrogen]
    {
        @amount *= 0.55
        @maxAmount *= 0.55
    }
    @RESOURCE[Oxidizer]
    {
        @amount *= 0.55
        @maxAmount *= 0.55
    }
}

 

 

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CommanderSmith

CommanderSmith

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, biohazard15 said:

A question if I may: would the "Atlas revamp" break the current saves? Atlas is one of my primary rockets on my current save, and I kinda don't like to restart the game just for nice visuals.

I think it's just a texture/visuals overhaul. @CobaltWolf would have to confirm it, but I don't think there would be anything save-breaking. :) 

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Hay

Hay

Posted
Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Pappystein said:

I chose to go a different route with my C-2 rocket.

 

I took the Saturn IVB Fuel tank and then shortened it.   Making the S-IVC (Optional part) available earlier at a higher cost gave me my twin J-2 Saturn C-2 S-III stage.    S-IB first stage, S-III 2nd Stage, S-IVB 3rd Stage and CSM/LLM uppers = Saturn C-2.    Needs SRMs to launch both Apollo and the lander but...  Neat rocket.   By Going this route, I am still able to use the later ETS Saturn IE first stage and I just have 2x of the 3.75 to 3.75 Saturn 1 Inter-stages to contend with.   My Vision of the Saturn C-2 or C-3 is they would have evolved to production after S-IB so no need to use the S-IVA upper stage.   Please note the tankage volume is completely a WAG based upon two drawings (no hard numbers were used in the creation of these parts!)

While I am still playing with my own S-III stage (Nodes are not correct.)  Here is what I have:

  Reveal hidden contents

+PART[bluedog_Saturn_S4B_EngineMount]
{
    @name = bluedog_Saturn_S3A_EngineMount
    @cost = 3000
    @TechRequired = heavyRocketry
    %node_stack_engine2 = 0.7, -0.866, 0.0, 0.0, -1.0, 0.0, 2
    %node_stack_engine3 = -0.7, -0.866, 0.0, 0.0, -1.0, 0.0, 2
    @title = Sarnus-S3 Engine Mount
        @description = Engine mount for dual 'Dnoces' cryogenic upper stage engines. Part of the Sarnus-C2 Rocket
    @tags = saturn sarnus ?s3 ?sIII first stage fuel tank large big ets multibody
    %stackSymmetry = 1
}

 


+PART[bluedog_Saturn_S4B_Tankage]
{
    @name = Pafftek_Saturn_S3_Tankage
    @MODEL
    {
        %scale = 1, 0.60, 1
    }
    @Drakenex
    @node_stack_top[1,,] *= 0.60
    @node_stack_bottom[1,,] *= 0.60
    @title = Sarnus-SIII Liquid Fuel Tank
    @mass *= 0.55
    @description = Medium sized 3.75m liquid hydrogen tank for mid stages.
    @tags = Saturn Sarnus ?s3 ?sIII 3.75m lho fuel oxidizer hydrolox liquid hydrogen cryo tank ets multibody
    
    @RESOURCE[LqdHydrogen]
    {
        @amount *= 0.55
        @maxAmount *= 0.55
    }
    @RESOURCE[Oxidizer]
    {
        @amount *= 0.55
        @maxAmount *= 0.55
    }
}

 

 

Do you have any sources on the S-III stage?  I thought the C-2 used an S-II with 4 J-2's as its second stage and the S-IV as its third stage.

 

EDIT:

Already found something. But shouldn't the S-III have the same diameter as the S-IV (non-B version)? (220 vs 260 inch) Source

Edited by Hay
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CobaltWolf

CobaltWolf

Posted
  • Author
Posted
On 9/9/2017 at 5:48 AM, biohazard15 said:

A question if I may: would the "Atlas revamp" break the current saves? Atlas is one of my primary rockets on my current save, and I kinda don't like to restart the game just for nice visuals.

On 9/9/2017 at 7:14 AM, CommanderSmith said:

I think it's just a texture/visuals overhaul. @CobaltWolf would have to confirm it, but I don't think there would be anything save-breaking. :) 

Sorry for the late reply, was off the grid this weekend.

Basically, it will not break saves. However, it is not simply a texture/visual overhaul. What will happen is the current Atlas parts will be deprecated (the actual process is setting their techRequired value to some nonsense). That will prevent them from appearing in the VAB part palette and being used to build new rockets. However, existing craft using them will still load. The old deprecated parts will be left in for one release before being removed. However, don't worry too much, since the update is still a good ways away.

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Pappystein

Pappystein

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 9/9/2017 at 8:06 AM, Hay said:

Do you have any sources on the S-III stage?  I thought the C-2 used an S-II with 4 J-2's as its second stage and the S-IV as its third stage.

 

EDIT:

Already found something. But shouldn't the S-III have the same diameter as the S-IV (non-B version)? (220 vs 260 inch) Source

First off you are Quoting the Saturn C-2B design.   Lots of documents drop the suffex letter since they were 'just proposals'.   Original Saturn C-2 proposal was Saturn S-I Stage, Saturn S-III stage and Saturn S-IV stage.  I will cover my choice of Diameter below.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-III

At the Time NASA/ABMA were wrestling with vehicles needed for EOR Lunar launch.   Proposed were C-2 and C-3.  C-3 originally had the S-I, S-II, and optionally S-IV, and  S-V in it's stack.   C-2 had the S-I, S-III, S-IV, and possibly S-V stack.    The C-2 was developed after the original C-3 but before C-3B to be cheaper to develop/make.  However the launch cycles needed to build the proposed Orbital escape vehicle went from 6 launches to something like 26.   First C-2 was dropped, then C-2B was ginned up to use the parts left over from the original C-3 when C-3B was evolved (2x F-1 first stage.)   Then Both C-2B and C-3B were dropped in favor of the larger diameter C-5.   Lets not bother to mention C-4 because it muddies the water even more.

The problem here is NASA/ABMA(Post NASA Takeover) do not follow any sort of structured naming procedures.   Thus designations are re-used and re-used....   For example the S-II with 4 engines has NOTHING in common with the S-II from the Saturn V.... Other than they are powered by J-2 engines in a cluster... at some point. 

As for my Saturn C-2 rocket.   I took a WAG as I stated already.   I do not foresee a Saturn C-2 or C-3 surviving with the S-IVa stage given they would come after Saturn C-1's launch (aka Saturn I.)   Thus I upped the top diameter to match 3.75 and then just went with a resized S-IVB tank and the S-IVC's (From @Drakenex's alternate parts patch) engine mount with more mass and a higher cost (because it is available before S-IVc)  

Again, Total WAG but it fits with original proposals and is a nice single payload launcher (Station parts.) for lower Kerbin orbit.    I use Saturn II-INT-18 that has a S-IVc for my heaver station parts.

 

I am not going for total realism here.... If I was then I would only be running Saturn I and Saturn V based rockets after all!   But The S-III stage fits....  Oh and I forgot to mention, you can ACTUALLY get a fully fueled Blk-II Apollo CM/CSM stack into orbit with it.  Have not played with the Blk III/IVs yet but I foresee getting them to a 200km orbital station without major issues.

In CH2 of Stages to Saturn, (your link) it even outlines the building block concept at the start of NASA integration as the  S-III would be the first J-2 engined stage and would be the 2nd stage of the C-2 Rocket.  The S-II stage would then be developed as an enlarged S-III stage with 4 engines.  for the C-3 rocket...  To save space here search for the following passage: "[48] Moreover, all first three candidates "

https://history.nasa.gov/SP-4206/ch2.htm

 

Edited by Pappystein
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Nittany Tiger

Nittany Tiger

Posted
Posted

I came up with an idea for a BDB-centered tech tree based on the BDB universe and real progression of rocket tech in the US space program.  It doesn't include nodes everything in the BDB pack, and it was built largely on the information in the BDB manual.  It also doesn't include nodes for stock parts.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1aINwkVDKztzuvfpryEJ2MelrBx4Z3J_ceJ3c6bFh6jg/edit?usp=sharing

I feel this might favor a gameplay style that was slower than normal, meaning no Munar missions until tech level 7.  However, that can be changed.  I introduced a lot of "intermediate" tech levels in my idea, and this can facilitate tech progression that doesn't end when the player is able to unlock the parts for an Apollo-style Munar mission.

It also includes a hypothetical tech node for Saturn V MLV rockets, though many of these rockets can be built with Titan III and Titan IV boosters.  There also needs to be a tech node for Skylab.  Again, this is just a rough proposal and not a final idea for a mod which I would create if anyone was interested in a BDB tech tree.

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Drakenex

Drakenex

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Pappystein said:

snipped

Great post, And yes, when you're taking inspiration from unflown  hardware (Ares, Saturn concepts, Altair lander and on and on) is all WAGing (yes, it's a verb), the important thing is the CONCEPT, not a detailed re-construction of something that never existed!

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plausse

plausse

Posted
Posted
On 06/09/2017 at 4:47 AM, CobaltWolf said:

Getting closer.... though, please keep in mind this is mostly through creative covering up of the unfinished bits...

uAIDAPn.png

That's a thing of beauty. Fasas was pretty, your old one utilitarian (and the one I stuck with). This is magnificent.

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