CobaltWolf

[1.8.1][1.7.3] Bluedog Design Bureau - Stockalike Saturn, Apollo, and more! (v1.6.2 "титан" 24/Nov/2019)

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3 minutes ago, Saltshaker said:

luigi_max_nut.jpg

opAgKDt.jpg

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3 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

I made a thing.

Isn't that like saying Mike painted a Church or Leo designed something, sculpted something and then painted something else?  :D:cool::D

Ok maybe that is a bit much but since you wanted to understate the work you did... felt it was important to overstate it :)

 

In full seriousness.  It was a fun dev stream (the 3/4ths of it I was there for.) .     Always interesting to watch you work and share thoughts back and forth while you do so.   Better yet I love the man rating blow-holes on the SRM noses! :)      It means when I launch MOL or a different Manned Titan, It will feel more accurate.

 

My Technical history thing time

Spoiler

 

For those not in the know.  UA-1205/UA-1207 were originally designed to be able to carry men.   NASA Calls this MAN-RATING.   With a Solid rocket motor you can shut it off by three methods.  

  1. You can rupture the entire length of the SRM case.   This causes the burning fuel to vent sideways thus no longer generate downward thrust.  BUT it does generate a side force.  You can see the vertical lines/ conduits  through Cobaltwolf's model above.  That would be the Detonation cord to "shut down"  AKA blow up the SRM for safety range destruct. 
  2. You can drown a small SRM in a non-flammable liquid.   This is not effective on Solid rockets larger than a few kilos in mass or of a high, internal pressure due to the volume of liquid you have to pump through the core as well as due to adding holes to the pressure vessel to be able to pump said liquid
  3. you can create a blow-out path.   This is what United Technology-CSD did for the UA-1205 and UA-1207.   All first generation UA-1205s had a blow-out hole in the nosecone.   This is a hollow area that leads to a spot on the endcap segment of the UA-1205 that would blow out if an abort was called after igniting the SRM.   The flame would be directed away from the rocket core and the SRM could burn from both ends with negligible thrust.   All of the First Generation Titan IIIC launches and the hybrid Titan IIIC-Mol, had this feature.   It was never tested in flight to my knowledge.   The USAF and NASA both dropped the Man Rating requirements for Titan III shortly after it entered production.  The 2nd Generation Titan IIIs (the 23B and 23C) had 3 major changes from the 1st Generation Titan III.   One was the LR87-AJ-11 (with the man rating lifted Aerojet was allowed to use a large composite engine extension,) one was removal of the man rating hardware from the Titan III core (this reduced cost and greatly sped up assembly time, and removal of the man ratting requirements from the UA-1205 allowed a much simpler end segment that could carry more fuel, nosecone and possibly the use of the significantly lighter but maybe non-man-rated TVC system.   I am completely unsure of the last.. But it was changed at the same time.

 

 

 

FWIW, The blow-hole method can create it's own hazards (hey the flames are going UP and DOWN now!)   And the SRM will still generate Thrust but it would be on the order of 1:1 or less for the SRM alone (AKA on a Titan with two of them and the core engine NOT lit it is going to slow down... gently-ish.... and then start to fall backwards/down)

Of-course  that makes it "easy" to escape in your Gemini capsule... assuming all 4 (6 for Gemini II aka Blue Gemini) de-orbit motors fire at once.   OR if you are LUCKY and the Titan Stack is still SLOW enough and LOW enough that Ejection seats are an option.....

 

 

 

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On 4/3/2019 at 5:26 PM, Pappystein said:

Good luck with that.  I have had exactly ONE TWO company(s) ever respond back to me for the various points of research I have done in the past.     And their response was to contact the government body that was in charge of the program in 1952....    The government body that no longer exists...  The second one was a company producing replica aircraft from original drawings and reverse engineered parts from real aircraft.   Have you attempted to reach out to NASA's historical section, or the Library of Congress?

 

1

yeah, I had a great response and found some even better data which should change my data completely. I have also found some conflicting documentation (public and declassified) as well as correlations between numbers like if you take the fuel flow, take away the gas generators usage and the pu valves bypassing you get the value from the public document. I have also come across very detailed documentation of testing and flights of the j-2. :D

I'm currently writing up my findings to reply to the email, after all, I was told that it was good work and that I should keep it up... :DDDDD 

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Rate my abomination on a scale of 1-10

screenshot484.png

screenshot485.png

 

screenshot493.png

Oh and my other one

screenshot460.png

screenshot461.png

screenshot465.png

screenshot482.png

screenshot479.png

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, DeltaDizzy said:

Rate my abomination on a scale of 1-10screenshot493.png

Oh and my other one

 

 

 

 

For clarity sake before I post a response... Did you tweakscale down atlas parts or did you tweakscale UP titan I parts?

 

I assume Restock is the reason I do not recognize several parts on the Vega upper stage?

Edited by Pappystein

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Yep those are restock parts.  My guess is Atlas scaled up to fit the Gemini service module.

 

Beyond Home planet pack drives some interesting variations to rocket designs!

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Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, Saltshaker said:

is_it_possible_to_learn_this_power.png

Um.... since you put HIM and his BAD scripts in this thread:

Nein, нет, ਨਹੀਂ , Nu, Nee, Nr, Hindi, Ingen.....

 

err actually the answer is:

At least not yet :) *I hope it is obvious that this is a joke*

PS who knew Hindi = No in Filipino, and that Monty Python was afraid of Knights from Luxembourg?   "We are no longer the Knights Who Say Nee!"    

Edited by Pappystein
how did I misspell Kinigit!

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Anyone get a chance to test the new solids yet? Curious what feedback people have on the decoupler (which will probably change somewhat from the current version) and also if anyone has used the inline version yet. :)

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Posted (edited)

I think I may have downloaded the wrong branch - pretty sure I grabbed Dev but couldn't see the new SRB models in game.  There was a second Titan SRB with a different name but the models, textures and stats were identical.

By the way, loving the engine spin up (what's the technical term?).  It keeps screwing with my launches as the Saturn 1C falls through the bottom of the milkstool with inevitably hilarious results.  I presume that's what hold down arms were invented for...  learning new rocket things every day.

Edit: yeah I'm an almighty mong.  Symlinked the git clone to the wrong KSP install.  I'll check it out this evening!

Edited by Friznit

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5 hours ago, Friznit said:

By the way, loving the engine spin up (what's the technical term?).

Depends on the country/manufacturer/orginization but most US companies use the Jet engine term "Engine SPOOL up"   While the term was coined by Whittle when developing the UK Centrifugal Turbojet I am un-certain if the term is used as such in the UK.   I am sure other countries have other terms that I am un-aware of.

 

 

I PMed Cobalt earlier with some photos from my launches to test:

vezdwey.jpg

64gJjya.jpg

And yes, while the Black and White is historically an accurate paint scheme.   I wanted new, Clean Mostly white in these launches.  Easier to tell it is the new parts.     But that is due to "mission shaping" of the SRM.  

*Historical engineering moment*

Spoiler

Large Solid Rocket motors are not mass produced.  Rather the grain (shape and amount of the Solid fuel inside) is custom tailored to each launch.    This process is sometimes called Mission shaping.  In this case I adjusted the single UA-1205 to a 1.16:1 TWR at launch (that was a tiny bit too low.)  

Both launches had a goal of 500km orbit.    Excepting the change in SM both upper stages and payload are the same.    "Titan Lite" makes 500km and had a usable amount of fuel left in the 2nd stage... AKA I could have probably doubled that orbit from launch....    The Titan 23C derived GLV however... YOWZA  I had enough fuel left over in the FIRST stage to attempt a lunar Injection burn after circularizing at 500km.   Since I was testing, the new LR87-AJ-11 engine and the SRMs,  I didn't care how the 2nd stage and the CM would work (they are known parts.)   So I didn't go further.

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Posted (edited)
On 4/7/2019 at 8:14 PM, Saltshaker said:

is_it_possible_to_learn_this_power.png

 

On 4/9/2019 at 10:44 AM, CobaltWolf said:

Anyone get a chance to test the new solids yet? Curious what feedback people have on the decoupler (which will probably change somewhat from the current version) and also if anyone has used the inline version yet. :)

 

I hope that REALLY answered your question @Saltshaker   :)

 

@CobaltWolf    15 SRB launches in:   The decoupler works well after launch.  Placement of it, and placement of the SRM on it can be a bit of work to the un-experienced.    Your idea you voiced on stream over last weekend about toggle-able nodes might be apropos for this thing.  

 

Edited by Pappystein

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I don't seem to be able to transmit science results from the BDB MOS or OWS workshops.  They're working fine in all other respects, but there's no option on the PAW to transmit science.  All other MPL's (stock and mod) are OK so it leads me to believe there's a config missing somewhere.  Before I go dicking into the code, has anyone else noticed the issue?

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2 hours ago, Friznit said:

I don't seem to be able to transmit science results from the BDB MOS or OWS workshops.  They're working fine in all other respects, but there's no option on the PAW to transmit science.  All other MPL's (stock and mod) are OK so it leads me to believe there's a config missing somewhere.  Before I go dicking into the code, has anyone else noticed the issue?

Right click on an antenna and select transmit?

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4 minutes ago, Pappystein said:

Right click on an antenna and select transmit?

Tried that.  That only transmits raw experiment data, not the science you get from MPL research.

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2 minutes ago, Friznit said:

Tried that.  That only transmits raw experiment data, not the science you get from MPL research.

TL:DR version:   You must have a modulemanager file that is causing the behavior to alter on the stock science lab and not the BDB labs. 

Long version:

Well I can tell you it is not something in the code.  I just looked at the Stock squad Science lab and compared it to the BDB MOL/MOS science lab.   They are identical except in terms of fine settings (costs, multipliers etc.)  There is no "button" to call transmit science in either.  Further The only real difference is the Science lab is using color changing (to alter the lights!) and BDB is using an animation.     This leads me to believe  you have a part or more likely a modulemanger file that is adding something to squad's lab and it is not being added to the BDB lab.    Since you first posted this question last weekend I launched a stock lab and a MOL lab... Neither had the option to transmit the data.  I had to hand carry it back to the planet.  

I/We would need to see your Modulemanger.log to see if something is being attached to the stock science lab that is not the BDB ones.   Have you tried Alternate Apollo's lab?  

So first what version of DMagic science animate are you using?  What version of Modulemanger, what version of KSP?

All that being said, while I know a bit of the back end config coding I am not a mod creator... Just trying to help out.

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Posted (edited)

I'm referring to the stock Transmit Science function (see 3rd paragraph on the wiki here).  It's 100% stock.  You can't move data or researched science between craft** (you can only move experiments). There's no other mechanism to get researched science back to Kerbin other than recovering the whole lab.  I'm pretty sure this isn't a MM issues, unless it's a patch in BDB that's removing the function.

(**WBI is the only mod with this feature)

Edit: So my mention of WBI triggered a thought.  I've been using a pre-built space station that I must have put together whilst running WBI mod.  This most likely disabled the stock functionality as it uses a custom UI.  My guess is this has somehow carried over into the craft files.  Though I can find no reference to it anywhere, rebuilding the station from scratch brings the functionality back.

Solved!

And thanks for your time - it helped!

Edited by Friznit

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1 hour ago, Friznit said:

And thanks for your time - it helped!

Glad to help you solve the issue.  

And yes, functionality is one reason that I have to start a new career every time I remove a mod.  You would be surprised how many mods remove functionality that you don't even realize has been removed.   I think I am on career 394 since they added funds to science in KSP.   No wonder I don't get much past the home planet's SOI!

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Hey y'all. Been away a while and just coming back.  I've noticed that CKAN is giving me a conflict between BDB and RT; one won't install (or uninstalls) with the other. 

Is this new?  An error?

 

@CobaltWolf much awesome sauce you have added in the past 6-9m.  Well done, sir.

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2 hours ago, TranceaddicT said:

Hey y'all. Been away a while and just coming back.  I've noticed that CKAN is giving me a conflict between BDB and RT; one won't install (or uninstalls) with the other. 

Is this new?  An error?

Got to be an error somewhere on CKAN. One shouldn't exclude the other. Run this by the CKAN people, they should be able to sort it out.

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How is it the Titan family of all things has the fewest number of variants out of these sheets so far? :huh:

3y5s4GX.png

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22 hours ago, Jso said:

Got to be an error somewhere on CKAN. One shouldn't exclude the other. Run this by the CKAN people, they should be able to sort it out.

I just downloaded the newest CKAN ... problem solved.

 

During the setup for my lastest 1.6.1 install, I was reading the discussion about boil-off and thought @Pappystein might like to read this...

 

Zero Boil-Off Tank (ZBOT) Experiment

https://ntrs.nasa.gov/search.jsp?R=20160010275

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