CobaltWolf

[1.8.1][1.7.3] Bluedog Design Bureau - Stockalike Saturn, Apollo, and more! (v1.6.2 "титан" 24/Nov/2019)

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3 hours ago, Dragon01 said:

Lovely. :) I'll test them out when I have some time later today. 

BTW, what's the status of the Agena overhaul? 

Theres still a bunch missing. Castor 1, TR-201, etc for starters so just be aware.

Agenda hasn't been touched since I messed with the models a few months ago. Its... Probably? Next after I sort out Thor/Delta. The other option would be Redstone / Jupiter.

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Been away for a while but got my afternoon time to make an advanced MOL station, inspired by the horizontal MOL made by @Zorg !

1572287559-220200-20191028192924-1.png

1572287562-220200-20191028192919-1.png

The Big Gemini ferry is so chonk compared to the station but it's a very cool bus :D

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7c7Km08.png

Nothing quite like checking in right after a release and seeing a whole new pile of parts to look at! Congrats on getting BDB 1.6 out @CobaltWolf, and I'm looking forward to seeing these older rockets get a makeover as well.

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39 minutes ago, NemesisBosseret said:

Having Tweak-scale issues in 1.6.1 and some stability issues.      BD flags 8 or 9 times as not being supported.

On the Previous page It was posted that BDB is NOT compatible below KSP 1.7.x with it's 1.6 release.  So if you are using 1.6.x or earlier KSP then BDB is now, not compatible.     The New B9PartSwitch needed to make all the major overhaul changes to BDB to make it easier to play does not work on 1.6x and earlier.

Also you DO need to delete and re-install the correct B9PartSwitch for your game version.     I have ZERO errors on a KSP 1.8.0 Install with BDB or B9PartSwitch)  And I have a bunch of mods and my own patch files as well that I have been slowly adding in.

Edited by Pappystein
Cleaned/Ceared up the text to easier comprehension.

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1 hour ago, Pappystein said:

On the Previous page It was posted that BDB is NOT compatible below KSP 1.7.x with it's 1.6 release.  So if you are using 1.6.x or earlier KSP then BDB is now, not compatible.     The New B9PartSwitch needed to make all the major overhaul changes to BDB to make it easier to play does not work on 1.6x and earlier.

Also you DO need to delete and re-install the correct B9PartSwitch for your game version.     I have ZERO errors on a KSP 1.8.0 Install with BDB or B9PartSwitch)  And I have a bunch of mods and my own patch files as well that I have been slowly adding in.

That makes sense.   should i just wait for 1.8.0 updates on mods?  because im trying to get a decent mod list to work for another playthru because i havent played KSP in awhile.    trying to find a good mod list that will work with SVE with remote tech and a few planet packs.

 

sorry btw i accidently reported ur post instead of quoting it.    its been a long time since i used this form.   admins already corrected it.

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Hopefully this is an OK place to ask these Skylab questions:

  1. After skylab is placed in orbit, the S-II is meant to separate, correct? Is it meant to somehow de-orbit as well?
  2. Is skylab meant to fine tune its orbit? I'm guessing that if so, it should be done before the ATM is repositioned, via RCS?
  3. I need help with RCS placement on the lab. The friznit wiki says "2 ACT RCS Unit top and bottom at the rear of the lab" but I don't get what is top or bottom or front or rear. There are no RCS thrusters that I can see in the images. Any hints on their intended location would be super helpful. Also, I'm guessing they're not intended to help with orbit adjustment (if that's meant to be a thing at all) because they don't have any forw/bkwd jets.

Also, if there are no hard and fast rules about this stuff that's cool, I'll just make up stuff ... just thought I'd ask!

P.S. This whole release is amazing!

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41 minutes ago, OrbitalManeuvers said:

Hopefully this is an OK place to ask these Skylab questions:

  1. After skylab is placed in orbit, the S-II is meant to separate, correct? Is it meant to somehow de-orbit as well?
  2. Is skylab meant to fine tune its orbit? I'm guessing that if so, it should be done before the ATM is repositioned, via RCS?
  3. I need help with RCS placement on the lab. The friznit wiki says "2 ACT RCS Unit top and bottom at the rear of the lab" but I don't get what is top or bottom or front or rear. There are no RCS thrusters that I can see in the images. Any hints on their intended location would be super helpful. Also, I'm guessing they're not intended to help with orbit adjustment (if that's meant to be a thing at all) because they don't have any forw/bkwd jets.

Also, if there are no hard and fast rules about this stuff that's cool, I'll just make up stuff ... just thought I'd ask!

P.S. This whole release is amazing!

1. In reality: orbital decay would take care of the S-II pretty quickly, given it's large surface area and relatively low empty mass, so leaving it be wouldn't be much of an issue. In KSP: I usually put a Saturn Instrument unit on the top of the S-II and use the nudge tool to line everything up so I still have control after staging. If your initial orbit is low enough, the S-II should be skimming the upper atmosphere after staging anyway, so it'll de-orbit eventually on it's own.

2. Yes, basically. I typically put the ATM RCS quads on an action group and only enable it for re-positioning and docking. If you do this, you should also lock the ATM's monopropellant until you need it, because it doesn't have very much. They're not really helpful the rest of the time anyway and having them disabled makes the whole station a bit easier to control, even with the offset COM.

3. I'm going to assume that top and bottom means dorsal and ventral. When looking in the VAB, they would be on the front and back sides in 2X symmetry on the bottom of the OWS lab module.

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38 minutes ago, Mudwig said:

If your initial orbit is low enough, the S-II should be skimming the upper atmosphere after staging anyway, so it'll de-orbit eventually on it's own.

Skylab replaces the S-IVB and up, so S-II is the upper stage, thus it'll be in a stable orbit quite a bit higher. I will go the probe core route for sure, was just wondering if I'd missed some nuggets in the build process. Ty for the feedback! 

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1 hour ago, OrbitalManeuvers said:

Hopefully this is an OK place to ask these Skylab questions:

  1. After skylab is placed in orbit, the S-II is meant to separate, correct? Is it meant to somehow de-orbit as well?
  2. Is skylab meant to fine tune its orbit? I'm guessing that if so, it should be done before the ATM is repositioned, via RCS?
  3. I need help with RCS placement on the lab. The friznit wiki says "2 ACT RCS Unit top and bottom at the rear of the lab" but I don't get what is top or bottom or front or rear. There are no RCS thrusters that I can see in the images. Any hints on their intended location would be super helpful. Also, I'm guessing they're not intended to help with orbit adjustment (if that's meant to be a thing at all) because they don't have any forw/bkwd jets.

Also, if there are no hard and fast rules about this stuff that's cool, I'll just make up stuff ... just thought I'd ask!

P.S. This whole release is amazing!

50 minutes ago, Mudwig said:

1. In reality: orbital decay would take care of the S-II pretty quickly, given it's large surface area and relatively low empty mass, so leaving it be wouldn't be much of an issue. In KSP: I usually put a Saturn Instrument unit on the top of the S-II and use the nudge tool to line everything up so I still have control after staging. If your initial orbit is low enough, the S-II should be skimming the upper atmosphere after staging anyway, so it'll de-orbit eventually on it's own.

2. Yes, basically. I typically put the ATM RCS quads on an action group and only enable it for re-positioning and docking. If you do this, you should also lock the ATM's monopropellant until you need it, because it doesn't have very much. They're not really helpful the rest of the time anyway and having them disabled makes the whole station a bit easier to control, even with the offset COM.

3. I'm going to assume that top and bottom means dorsal and ventral. When looking in the VAB, they would be on the front and back sides in 2X symmetry on the bottom of the OWS lab module.

  1. yes, usually the S-II retros built into the skirt are enough to get enough separation you don't have to worry about it again.
  2. I don't believe it was ever able of tuning its orbit, I believe its initial orbit was relatively high. It was never meant to be visited by more than 4-5 crews IRL. Further use would require reboost.
  3. Hopefully this image helps - they go in 2x symmetry on the radiator end of the OWS, on the sun and earth facing sides.

TACS%20system.jpg

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I use the Orbital Decay mod, so the S-II stage pretty rapidly falls out of orbit... and I use stationkeeping/occasional boosts from visiting craft to keep the Skylab in a fairly stable orbit.

With the staging retros on the S-II, execute the staging from a prograde orientation at Ap, and you should get sufficient separation to at least not have the S-II hanging around close for a while.

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No sleep make parts

KuPD51m.png

 

 

Got to messing around with some ahistorical stuff, even...

There was another self-serving reason for wanting to have single-nozzle LR-87 and splitting off the Thor engine mount from the engine...

0duAWN7.png
j2pt26g.png
BRSeXzj.png
EkeisR7.png
XbuHxqf.png

 

 

tkGtPj8.png
0olIiw4.png

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So the relay antenna range on the "Obelix" probe core was increased to 2000000 from 500000 since the previous version. Were antenna ranges increased across the board for various antennas in this update? Because playing with JNSQ, even with the tiniest antenna I can still get a signal at minmus. 

Edited by subyng

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22 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

The other option would be Redstone / Jupiter.

Now that I think of it, this (and Juno!) makes more sense. :) Especially since you've started to experiment with a spin table decoupler. 

BTW, why does the Jupiter variant of the LR-79 terminate like it does, instead of in a gimbaled nozzle? The idea, I think, was to make the vernier part of the engine (which would also provide turbopump FX on Thor-style variants). Also, you made the FABU much too big, and are you sure that RS-27A nozzle shouldn't be longer? :) 

Edited by Dragon01

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14 hours ago, NemesisBosseret said:

That makes sense.   should i just wait for 1.8.0 updates on mods?  because im trying to get a decent mod list to work for another playthru because i havent played KSP in awhile.    trying to find a good mod list that will work with SVE with remote tech and a few planet packs.

 

sorry btw i accidently reported ur post instead of quoting it.    its been a long time since i used this form.   admins already corrected it.

!) no worries on the latter.  Thanks for fixing your mistake.

2) There are a LOT of good mods that as of yesterday are not yet 1.8 ready (Scansat, Tweakscale... Partially MechJeb)    Yet there are a lot of them that ARE ready.   So the biggest issue is are you playing on a non standard 16:9 monitor format.  Because if you are you won't have the altimeter even if your UI is set to 100%  I had to install Engineer Redux to get a working altimeter

So long as the 1.8.1 bug fix for KSP doesn't change the way a lot of mods work they should transfer fine...ish.

9 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

No sleep make parts

 

Got to messing around with some ahistorical stuff, even...

There was another self-serving reason for wanting to have single-nozzle LR-87 and splitting off the Thor engine mount from the engine...

Nice new parts Cobalt.   Can the Thor fins have a higher temperature set to them than before?    I am sick of burning them off my rockets at 20km!   :P  They seem to be using a CFG based on the old Stock Fixed winglet that also has this issue.

 

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12 hours ago, OrbitalManeuvers said:

Hopefully this is an OK place to ask these Skylab questions:

  1. After skylab is placed in orbit, the S-II is meant to separate, correct? Is it meant to somehow de-orbit as well?
  2. Is skylab meant to fine tune its orbit? I'm guessing that if so, it should be done before the ATM is repositioned, via RCS?
  3. I need help with RCS placement on the lab. The friznit wiki says "2 ACT RCS Unit top and bottom at the rear of the lab" but I don't get what is top or bottom or front or rear. There are no RCS thrusters that I can see in the images. Any hints on their intended location would be super helpful. Also, I'm guessing they're not intended to help with orbit adjustment (if that's meant to be a thing at all) because they don't have any forw/bkwd jets.

Also, if there are no hard and fast rules about this stuff that's cool, I'll just make up stuff ... just thought I'd ask!

P.S. This whole release is amazing!

Others have already commented in on this.   I DON'T use Orbital decay (although I might look into it for my final KSP play-through before possibly moving to KSP2)

When I launch Skylab where it is not a wetlab I do it Ab-Historically.   I do one of 2 choices.   I launch a Saturn-INT-21 with an addition of the old 1960 (canceled) S-III stage (use the S-IVB instrument unit and 4x of the S-IVB RCS modules with all the S-IVC parts and 2 J2s ONLY) between the S-II stage and the S-IVB/Skylab stage.    It uses the Saturn I big cylindrical decoupler...it can self de-orbit.   I launch the stack into an Elliptical 500km x 50km Stock scale orbit (or 750km x 70km in 2.5x or JNSQ scales)   Discard S-II even if there is fuel left.  Then use the S-III to circularize... There is JUST enough fuel to de-orbit the S-III stage.

ALTERNATIVELY and CLOSER to correct....   I add 8x of the S-II Separation motors facing UP towards the Skylab.   from a 200km orbit (my typical "real-ish" Skylab launch in stock scale) the S-II should burn up if separated with the stack pointing pro grade at the highest altitude the Skylab will orbit at.   I DO sometimes add 4x Linear RCS to the bottom of the Radiator section to give "forward thrust" control.

 

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13 hours ago, OrbitalManeuvers said:

Hopefully this is an OK place to ask these Skylab questions:

  1. After skylab is placed in orbit, the S-II is meant to separate, correct? Is it meant to somehow de-orbit as well?
  2. Is skylab meant to fine tune its orbit? I'm guessing that if so, it should be done before the ATM is repositioned, via RCS?
  3. I need help with RCS placement on the lab. The friznit wiki says "2 ACT RCS Unit top and bottom at the rear of the lab" but I don't get what is top or bottom or front or rear. There are no RCS thrusters that I can see in the images. Any hints on their intended location would be super helpful. Also, I'm guessing they're not intended to help with orbit adjustment (if that's meant to be a thing at all) because they don't have any forw/bkwd jets.

Also, if there are no hard and fast rules about this stuff that's cool, I'll just make up stuff ... just thought I'd ask!

P.S. This whole release is amazing!

I would note that while launched in May of 1973, S-II-513 (the second stage of the rocket that launched the station) was on orbit until 11 January 1975. This does mean that the S-II stage was in orbit for nearly 11 months after the last crew came home. Because the S-II was lighter (probably around 40 tons following the stage being inerted) than Skylab, and had a more consistent cross section for drag to act on. Skylab was maintained in a solar-inertial (so that the solar arrays always pointed toward the sun) mode while in operation, left to switch into a gravity gradient (one end of the station always pointing toward the earth, meaning the solar panels would act as a drag break in the upper atmosphere) mode after the last crew, flown in an end-on velocity vector (IE, to present the smallest possible cross section for drag, the station was turned so that the long axis would remain parallel to the orbit at the cost of using the gyros and limited rcs prop*) when they thought they might be able to reuse the station with the shuttle, and finally back to the gravity gradient mode to accelerate and control de-orbiting when it was obvious that the Shuttle would not be able to get up in time to reboost the station.

*Skylab RCS prop was GN an was designed to allow the possibility of on-orbit refill, even though the station was designed with a rather short orbital life.

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This new version is a no go for me. It busted about 25 craft I had previously built that contained bluedog parts of old. Can't do it. The craft I build are my whole existence in this game. Can't do without them. On a side note, I had not even been able to play 1.8 until today when Firesplitter updated to make the game load finally. Saw the game get through the loading screen finally only to then see my most cherished craft were now not loadable because of the Bluedog update. No joy. Went back to an older Bluedog version and got my crafts back.

Edited by MikeO89

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Old parts should still be there, but rusty. You should be able to replace the old parts with new ones.

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56 minutes ago, MikeO89 said:

This new version is a no go for me. It busted about 25 craft I had previously built that contained bluedog parts of old. Can't do it. The craft I build are my whole existence in this game. Can't do without them. On a side note, I had not even been able to play 1.8 until today when Firesplitter updated to make the game load finally. Saw the game get through the loading screen finally only to then see my most cherished craft were now not loadable because of the Bluedog update. No joy. Went back to an older Bluedog version and got my crafts back.

On 10/25/2019 at 8:52 AM, CobaltWolf said:

THIS UPDATE IS MASSIVE, CONTAINS TOO MANY CHANGES TO PROPERLY DOCUMENT, AND WILL LIKELY BREAK SAVES.

PLEASE BACK UP YOUR SAVE BEFORE INSTALLING. IT IS RECOMMENDED TO START A NEW GAME WITH THIS UPDATE.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

(In all seriousness, if I understand your crafts weren't permanently lost - I'm glad you were able to save them. The massive revamps I've been doing to the mod to bring the parts up to the state they always should have been are impossible to do without breaking things. You're absolutely under no obligation to update. :) )

 

HOSS (using an AJ10-118F cus I don't have a textured RL10 handy... soon...):

0ZO89q4.pngpsRa5u3.png
zOCXsUz.png

 

Agena D:

JQeNq0u.pnggwxdxCc.png
xppdGXB.png

 

Gemini Agena Target Vehicle:

CoDxYZD.pngtAKMxMd.png
7kY0g3M.png

Edited by CobaltWolf

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Hi, I absolutely love this mod. I just wanted to ask if I could get some help. I'm trying to launch a Saturn IB in JNSQ, to dock with a Skylab at inc. 50 alt 125. I use Mechjeb for most of my gameplay as I struggle with orbits and rendezvous (been playing for years, still not got the hang of it). Mechjeb is really struggling to get anywhere beyond 45km, which in JNSQ isn't even hitting the upper atmosphere. I've set the SM to Orbital configuration instead of Lunar, but this has meant that even if I can achieve orbit, I'm too low on fuel to rendezvous with Skylab. Any tips would be appreciated!

Edited by PeteKonrad
Misclicked submit.

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18 minutes ago, PeteKonrad said:

Hi, I absolutely love this mod. I just wanted to ask if I could get some help. I'm trying to launch a Saturn IB in JNSQ, to dock with a Skylab at inc. 50 alt 125. I use Mechjeb for most of my gameplay as I struggle with orbits and rendezvous (been playing for years, still not got the hang of it). Mechjeb is really struggling to get anywhere beyond 45km, which in JNSQ isn't even hitting the upper atmosphere. I've set the SM to Orbital configuration instead of Lunar, but this has meant that even if I can achieve orbit, I'm too low on fuel to rendezvous with Skylab. Any tips would be appreciated!

I've found that you have to take a shallower launch angle with the Saturn I. Set the turn to start at around 3km or 300 m/s. And then set the curve to around 75 to 85%. 

I use this with stock as I dont play with size resale mods, but I've found that the higher the appoapsis upon first stage cut off, the better chance the second stage has of getting into orbit.

I don't know how to translate those numbers into JNSQ, but just follow these tips:

Start gravity turn later than you would.

Make sure the turn curve is more shallow. (65% is normal, go for 75 to 85%).

Make sure to set the Apollo CSM to orbital config to reduce weight.

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50 minutes ago, PeteKonrad said:

Hi, I absolutely love this mod. I just wanted to ask if I could get some help. I'm trying to launch a Saturn IB in JNSQ, to dock with a Skylab at inc. 50 alt 125. I use Mechjeb for most of my gameplay as I struggle with orbits and rendezvous (been playing for years, still not got the hang of it). Mechjeb is really struggling to get anywhere beyond 45km, which in JNSQ isn't even hitting the upper atmosphere. I've set the SM to Orbital configuration instead of Lunar, but this has meant that even if I can achieve orbit, I'm too low on fuel to rendezvous with Skylab. Any tips would be appreciated!

Welcome to the forums and great first post! MJ is great for a lot of things but for ascent I highly recommend GravityTurn Mod.

Just use the default settings to start but set the target altitude to the value you want an tweak as needed to get more efficient launches. :)

Edit: Just checked and it is confirmed working in 1.8

Edited by Foxxonius Augustus

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