CobaltWolf

[1.8.1][1.7.3] Bluedog Design Bureau - Stockalike Saturn, Apollo, and more! (v1.6.2 "титан" 24/Nov/2019)

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1 hour ago, Pappystein said:

Would LOVE for you to get Agena in the 1.7 Dev cycle.   I had to downgrade my dev build back to 1.6.1/1,6,2 hot-fix due to lacking Agena in the 1.7 Dev build!.    I actually think the Castor Decoupler for Thor is similar enough to the Agena SOT (the erroneously called Droptank) tank separation system, that a scaled down version of that would work for the SOT tanks.  

The only question is are you planning on multiple textures for the GCU to represent the 4+1 flown variants?   (A, B, D, Ascent Agena, and Shuttle Agena)   Obviously the +1 was not flown.

If nothing else I recommend a Skin texture choice of 1) White, 2) Black, 3) Metal, 4) Black + Metal (Check), 5) White + Black (Check)

The outer skins of tanks, engine adapter, GCU and the interstage are all very purposely being put on separate texture sheets to keep them as flexible as possible. At a bare minimum right now, for example, the long Agena tank will have Agena B, Agena D, and GATV variants which also have some related mesh switches. There's a lot of variation in the Agena Ds and Bs that I'd also like to capture... so, yeah.

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12 minutes ago, Pappystein said:

Would LOVE for you to get Agena in the 1.7 Dev cycle.   I had to downgrade my dev build back to 1.6.1/1,6,2 hot-fix due to lacking Agena in the 1.7 Dev build!.    I actually think the Castor Decoupler for Thor is similar enough to the Agena SOT (the erroneously called Droptank) tank separation system, that a scaled down version of that would work for the SOT tanks.  

 

You can just delete the Tech_hidden=True line in the *.cfg in order to get them to be selectable. The dev build versions are the same as the released build, just hidden from the selector. Same with the Juno and Redstone.

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11 minutes ago, Machinique said:

You can just delete the Tech_hidden=True line in the *.cfg in order to get them to be selectable. The dev build versions are the same as the released build, just hidden from the selector. Same with the Juno and Redstone.

This is true but I don't like muxing up DevCycles.  If I am dev-ing a patch or alternate Part CFG for a future update that is one thing...    If new parts are coming I will wait for the ones I need to be in the game.   I just never realized how much I would miss Agena.  

I think I use Agena for 2/3rds of all my upper stage launches... and a fully 75% of my satellite buses!

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1 hour ago, Pappystein said:

This is true but I don't like muxing up DevCycles.  If I am dev-ing a patch or alternate Part CFG for a future update that is one thing...    If new parts are coming I will wait for the ones I need to be in the game.   I just never realized how much I would miss Agena.  

I think I use Agena for 2/3rds of all my upper stage launches... and a fully 75% of my satellite buses!

Oh, uh... I've been forgetting to share stuff here haven't I? Agena is going to be a fairly big, modular part set with a bunch of really unique stuff (even past just the GATV/ATDA parts...)

Anyways, first off: I'm trying to stream tonight starting by say 6 PM Eastern. I think I'm going to try and get the HOSS avionics (which I totally didn't forget) and some probe RCS and mono tanks in...

rXNi9GV.png

8o0bleB.png

(Shown here with a Bell 8096B cus I was curious what it would look like)

 

And then... Well, I'd like to think that Agena D itself can get in game this weekend.

9kfPAb5.pngCciHpH6.png
DC437Fy.png

 

And then some more pics of stuff that is very very very WIP that will take a while to come down the line...

7gSyu8I.png
nrsRfAn.png
ZpDCzwL.png
K6U9wX8.png
TNXlXf3.png
rFoEmef.png
ry9QCXG.png

 

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Is that the OG return capsule making a comeback? :cool:

Can't wait for Corona. That's going to be nice for career early game science grinding.

Edited by Machinique

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2 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

Oh, uh... I've been forgetting to share stuff here haven't I? Agena is going to be a fairly big, modular part set with a bunch of really unique stuff (even past just the GATV/ATDA parts...)

Anyways, first off: I'm trying to stream tonight starting by say 6 PM Eastern. I think I'm going to try and get the HOSS avionics (which I totally didn't forget) and some probe RCS and mono tanks in...

 

 

(Shown here with a Bell 8096B cus I was curious what it would look like)

 

And then... Well, I'd like to think that Agena D itself can get in game this weekend.

 

 

And then some more pics of stuff that is very very very WIP that will take a while to come down the line...

 

 

NICE!   I love the new Agena parts look. 

Two questions

1) Is The Ageana going to use an Interstage or Decoupler/Shroud.   I assume some sort of interstage due to the various engine choices?

2) Is the Coronna (I assume that is what the film capsule I am seeing is) Return capsule going to allow it to return science from other parts.... Sort of like the stock Science grabber box (which name escapes me ATM)

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1 hour ago, Machinique said:

Is that the OG return capsule making a comeback? :cool:

Can't wait for Corona. That's going to be nice for career early game science grinding.

1 hour ago, Pappystein said:

NICE!   I love the new Agena parts look. 

Two questions

1) Is The Ageana going to use an Interstage or Decoupler/Shroud.   I assume some sort of interstage due to the various engine choices?

2) Is the Coronna (I assume that is what the film capsule I am seeing is) Return capsule going to allow it to return science from other parts.... Sort of like the stock Science grabber box (which name escapes me ATM)

1) I think everything is going to use interstages moving forward. They're just nicer to use in general IMO - much more flexibility and it also means you can mix and match more.

2) yes, it's a Corona capsule, and yeah it should be capable of... uh... idk "sucking" science out of other parts or whatever. That capability wasn't a thing when I made the old return capsule.

 

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Hi !

Talking about balance. I m currently managing to do historical "discoverer 13" mission in a 2.5 scaled system. So with a Thor agena rocket, and I noticed that I can barrely put 1.5t in orbit (even with an agena B) against the 6t of reals discoverer satelites.

I think the agena upper stages might be a little underpowered (at least for a 2.5 scales system)

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7 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

 

Indeed, I don't make IVAs. If that's a problem for anyone... well, I accept pull requests. :)

 

IVAs are interesting to me as I like cutaway diagrams. But yeah they are a real pain.

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1 hour ago, Carni35 said:

Hi !

Talking about balance. I m currently managing to do historical "discoverer 13" mission in a 2.5 scaled system. So with a Thor agena rocket, and I noticed that I can barrely put 1.5t in orbit (even with an agena B) against the 6t of reals discoverer satelites.

I think the agena upper stages might be a little underpowered (at least for a 2.5 scales system)

Does your replica payload weigh in at 6 tons? Masses are going to be different both for the rocket and payload due to the KSP scale factor(s).

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39 minutes ago, Carni35 said:

Hi !

Talking about balance. I m currently managing to do historical "discoverer 13" mission in a 2.5 scaled system. So with a Thor agena rocket, and I noticed that I can barrely put 1.5t in orbit (even with an agena B) against the 6t of reals discoverer satelites.

I think the agena upper stages might be a little underpowered (at least for a 2.5 scales system)

6T IRL = less than 2T KSP at 2.5x Scale.  So It sound about right actually...   The Math gets a bit fuzzy so that is a ballpark number.   Basically a 2 Ton payload at Stock KSP should be around 0.524 Tons.. 

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1 hour ago, Carni35 said:

Hi !

Talking about balance. I m currently managing to do historical "discoverer 13" mission in a 2.5 scaled system. So with a Thor agena rocket, and I noticed that I can barrely put 1.5t in orbit (even with an agena B) against the 6t of reals discoverer satelites.

I think the agena upper stages might be a little underpowered (at least for a 2.5 scales system)

The ~6t mass of the Corona satellites includes the Agena service module, which is also the 2nd stage of the launch vehicle. They didn't stick a Corona on top of a different Agena stage. The actual mass of the payload ( subtracting the service module ) was less than 2t.

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I've always been a huge fan of that signature 'Delta blue' primer color of the Delta-II/Delta-III rockets', so because I was bored I went in GIMP and made myself a texture-switch for the LDC fuel tank parts so that I could fulfill my dreams of a blue Delta IV rocket! :D Pictured below is the Delta IV Medium, I might want to figure out a blue Delta IV Heavy rocket in the future, but this is good enough for me for now!

NxclQch.png

7X87k2u.png

peQIDgd.png

uKPSPXj.png

iSFQS3t.png

hGmeue8.png

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Hopefully this hasn't already been asked, probably has, but anyway, I was wondering if there was a way to disable the sort of power ramping with the engines? If you understand what I mean, I'd like to turn that off or find a better way to stop worrying about that instead of having to manually shutdown my engines to cutoff immediately.

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6 hours ago, Machinique said:

Can't wait for Corona. That's going to be nice for career early game science grinding.

Early Career...  How about ALL the Career! :)

43 minutes ago, UnhorsedGoose said:

Hopefully this hasn't already been asked, probably has, but anyway, I was wondering if there was a way to disable the sort of power ramping with the engines? If you understand what I mean, I'd like to turn that off or find a better way to stop worrying about that instead of having to manually shutdown my engines to cutoff immediately.

There is a patch for it.  But I don't think it has been propagated to the Extras Folder.   So if you look 15 to 30 pages back you should be able to find it.    I use Mech Jeb Ascent Guidance and I do not have issues with the engine spool, but I admit that it takes a little getting used to.   Sure you may not get a perfectly Circular Orbit... BUT you get one that is very close.   And it should be notated that #RealRocketsHaveSpoolLag   :)

That should be just as important as #RealThrustHasCurves

 

 

Yep, that is my opinion.

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How have the IDCSP been positioned?
They got no fuel for translation or maneuvering themselves and the Transtage got not enough Delta-V to settle them all.
Or did I miss a small part like a tiny Monopropellant engine?

Edited by Gordon Dry

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b8kb0nr.png

Some science experiment descriptions are missing periods, and it annoys me a little tbh

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On 11/6/2019 at 6:32 PM, biohazard15 said:

1) Gemini lander - barely enough fuel for 2.5x rescale, at least on the Mun. Defintely not enough if you use it as supposed (i.e. using lander tank as launching pad) - you can't reach 20km x 20km orbit with 2nd stage tanks (but you can if you keep "landing" stage and use all its fuel!)

 

14 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

Well, for 1) yeah, it is meant to be optimized for 2.5x... but our balance fella has been out on medical leave for most of the last dev cycle (and continues to be - thoughts out to @Jso! Can't wait for you to be able to use your right arm again!). I know I managed to successfully complete a mission with it in I think 2.7x though - do you know if the saddle/side tanks were partially drained? I think I remember having to transfer remaining fuel from the descent tank into them.

I recall looking into this and I think we decided it needed help from an additional decent stage and possibly the mother ship for all but hovering to land.

 

2 hours ago, Gordon Dry said:

How have the IDCSP been positioned?
They got no fuel for translation or maneuvering themselves and the Transtage got not enough Delta-V to settle them all.
Or did I miss a small part like a tiny Monopropellant engine?

Historically they would be jettisoned at intervals while Transtage accelerated, and then allowed to disperse over the next few months.

Edited by Jso

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7 hours ago, UnhorsedGoose said:

Hopefully this hasn't already been asked, probably has, but anyway, I was wondering if there was a way to disable the sort of power ramping with the engines? If you understand what I mean, I'd like to turn that off or find a better way to stop worrying about that instead of having to manually shutdown my engines to cutoff immediately.

Since a couple of different people have asked about this I've dropped a patch to remove this into BDB extras which will be available from the next patch update.

https://github.com/CobaltWolf/Bluedog-Design-Bureau/commit/a5721d08da835e84233e66b8045df616c8ddd79e

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18 hours ago, Carni35 said:

Hi !

Talking about balance. I m currently managing to do historical "discoverer 13" mission in a 2.5 scaled system. So with a Thor agena rocket, and I noticed that I can barrely put 1.5t in orbit (even with an agena B) against the 6t of reals discoverer satelites.

I think the agena upper stages might be a little underpowered (at least for a 2.5 scales system)

16 hours ago, Machinique said:

Does your replica payload weigh in at 6 tons? Masses are going to be different both for the rocket and payload due to the KSP scale factor(s).

16 hours ago, Pappystein said:

6T IRL = less than 2T KSP at 2.5x Scale.  So It sound about right actually...   The Math gets a bit fuzzy so that is a ballpark number.   Basically a 2 Ton payload at Stock KSP should be around 0.524 Tons.. 

16 hours ago, Mudwig said:

The ~6t mass of the Corona satellites includes the Agena service module, which is also the 2nd stage of the launch vehicle. They didn't stick a Corona on top of a different Agena stage. The actual mass of the payload ( subtracting the service module ) was less than 2t.

Well, in any case... well actually I haven't given any thought to making the Corona camera systems so idk, but my point is we're going to be doing the Thor-Agena A pretty soon so we can definitely look at the balance.

 

17 hours ago, zit said:

IVAs are interesting to me as I like cutaway diagrams. But yeah they are a real pain.

Oh yeah, I love the cutaway diagram look to them, they're really fun. Just a pain in the butt to make...

 

14 hours ago, Invaderchaos said:

I've always been a huge fan of that signature 'Delta blue' primer color of the Delta-II/Delta-III rockets', so because I was bored I went in GIMP and made myself a texture-switch for the LDC fuel tank parts so that I could fulfill my dreams of a blue Delta IV rocket! :D Pictured below is the Delta IV Medium, I might want to figure out a blue Delta IV Heavy rocket in the future, but this is good enough for me for now!

oof that is awesome and makes me want to make an official blue reskin for the LDC for the next patch...

Unrelated, but would people be interested in a set of 1.875m tanks using the Thor textures? Would make for a 3rd "plain-er" set apart from the Atlas and Titan tanks.

 

14 hours ago, UnhorsedGoose said:

Hopefully this hasn't already been asked, probably has, but anyway, I was wondering if there was a way to disable the sort of power ramping with the engines? If you understand what I mean, I'd like to turn that off or find a better way to stop worrying about that instead of having to manually shutdown my engines to cutoff immediately.

13 hours ago, Pappystein said:

Early Career...  How about ALL the Career! :)

There is a patch for it.  But I don't think it has been propagated to the Extras Folder.   So if you look 15 to 30 pages back you should be able to find it.    I use Mech Jeb Ascent Guidance and I do not have issues with the engine spool, but I admit that it takes a little getting used to.   Sure you may not get a perfectly Circular Orbit... BUT you get one that is very close.   And it should be notated that #RealRocketsHaveSpoolLag   :)

That should be just as important as #RealThrustHasCurves

Yep, that is my opinion.

7 hours ago, Zorg said:

Since a couple of different people have asked about this I've dropped a patch to remove this into BDB extras which will be available from the next patch update.

https://github.com/CobaltWolf/Bluedog-Design-Bureau/commit/a5721d08da835e84233e66b8045df616c8ddd79e

Thanks Zorg! I agree, it's nice to have the realism of them doing that (and I mean, I already play/fly without throttling + limiting my starts even before running Engine Ignitor full time like I do now) but I totally understand that it makes stuff a pain in the ass, MJ for instance not really knowing how to compensate for it when executing nodes for instance.

 

12 hours ago, zit said:

Some science experiment descriptions are missing periods, and it annoys me a little tbh

uh uh uh uh I accept pull requests

 

13 hours ago, Gordon Dry said:

How have the IDCSP been positioned?
They got no fuel for translation or maneuvering themselves and the Transtage got not enough Delta-V to settle them all.
Or did I miss a small part like a tiny Monopropellant engine?

10 hours ago, Jso said:

Historically they would be jettisoned at intervals while Transtage accelerated, and then allowed to disperse over the next few months.

Yeah pretty much. I did put the spin jets in though.

 

10 hours ago, Jso said:

I recall looking into this and I think we decided it needed help from an additional decent stage and possibly the mother ship for all but hovering to land.

I've seen people have good results with a crasher stage, yeah.

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14 hours ago, Jso said:

 

I recall looking into this and I think we decided it needed help from an additional decent stage and possibly the mother ship for all but hovering to land.

ONE OF my Mission's to the Mun I flew with it, I had under or about 1/3rd the Fuel left in the Transtage...  I Left Transtage attached and used it to lower Periapsis.  I then proceed to do a Landing with the Landing motor (fine positioning and Suicide Burn.)  The only reason I had fuel left in Transtage was because I took advantage of the Mun's own Gravity to pull it it (Basically a Direct Ascent from Kerbin with no Orbiting of Kerbin.)     

 

14 hours ago, Jso said:

Historically they would be jettisoned at intervals while Transtage accelerated, and then allowed to disperse over the next few months.

I haven't had a chance to play with these yet (they are downloaded... Just not more than a few minutes of time today.)  But what about the mini Mercury Seperation motor.   For such a Small Payload could potentially give enough thrust to KICK the Sats into proper Circularish orbits ( KSP Resonnant Orbit Calculator would be a Big win for this)  

The Problem with this deployment system in KSP is there is No Solar Wind, nor is there drag in space....    Both exist IRL to one extent or another.  

4 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

I've seen people have good results with a crasher stage, yeah.

Honestly, I have not flown this in JNSQ yet but I have flown it in 2.5x rescale.   Sure I couldn't just take the lander and fly it off it's landing-base from the Mun and expect to get into Orbit.   But my answer is SO?  Just because Apollo had enough thrust and fuel to do that did/dose not mean the Gemini lander couldn't do so.   That being said.   Please don't do the FASA route of a Cylindrical SM at 2.5M with the same engines as Gemini's SM.      IF you want to do something.   Something along the disk HAPPS would be a good unique idea.   Except that the Crasher stage would need more thrust... so maybe a 1.875m version of the Peacekeeper Trim stage?   IDK.    *EDITED* Peacekeeper Post Boost Vehicle is the correct name.

 

Edited by Pappystein
Corrected first Sentance...

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I decided to try building the Delta 4000 and Delta 5000 from ETS from the sparse details in the wiki. While I was testing a 2.5m version with a linear thrust plate (it looked like a dumpy Atlas V), I found a conversation between E of pi and Cobalt from 2016 with some more details that confirmed that 2.0m version would be more accurate (and look more like a Delta).

Here's the 4120 with 12 Castor 4s. The payload specifications are fairly close to the wiki, at least compared to real world designs at 2.7x scale. The low TWR of the Centaur D (and Centaur E) stages means that a lofted trajectory is required, and I need to fiddle around with the ascent to optimize it. I also need to redesign my Delta 5000 as well with the 2m core stage. I was using a 2.5m diameter for the Centaur E (which also has sparse details), and I'll probably stick to that. It will probably end up looking a lot like a Delta III with the widened upper stage and GEM 46 boosters.

Pics:

Spoiler

N4UbPOE.jpg

vgwNaaP.jpg

 

EDIT: For comparison, here's a shot of the 2.5m Delta 4000. It's a sunset flight, so the lighting isn't as good.

p3CDUJ9.jpg

 

 

 

Edited by Machinique

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Odd behaviour.

I wanted to attach Castors to Titan Tank, so I first radially attached two bluedog.Castor.RadialDecoupler

As I tried to attach either bluedog.Scout.Castor.Radial or bluedog.Delta.GEM40 to those decouplers, the boosters wanted to radially attach to the decoupler itself. On one side of the tank.

During this the log was spammed with

NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at KSP.UI.Screens.EditorActionGroups.ConstructGroupActionList (System.Int32 overrideGroup) [0x0021c] in <9d71e4043e394d78a6cf9193ad011698>:0 
  at KSP.UI.Screens.EditorActionGroups.ConstructActionList () [0x00412] in <9d71e4043e394d78a6cf9193ad011698>:0 
  at KSP.UI.Screens.EditorActionGroups.ConstructLists (System.Boolean full) [0x0001c] in <9d71e4043e394d78a6cf9193ad011698>:0 
  at KSP.UI.Screens.EditorActionGroups.ClearSelection (System.Boolean reconstruct) [0x00095] in <9d71e4043e394d78a6cf9193ad011698>:0 
  at ClickThroughFix.CBTMonitor.Update () [0x00084] in <3288816d0d5c44638658cf21b1ae032b>:0 
 
(Filename: <9d71e4043e394d78a6cf9193ad011698> Line: 0)

@linuxgurugamer as well

Full log and stuff:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/atz9ebst30lkuka/player.log and stuff 2019-11-08-01.zip?dl=1

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