CobaltWolf

[1.8.1][1.7.3] Bluedog Design Bureau - Stockalike Saturn, Apollo, and more! (v1.6.2 "титан" 24/Nov/2019)

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1 hour ago, CobaltWolf said:

Can you link the doc? :huh: I save everything I come across. And it wasn't really tri-fuel it's that the turbopump needed the HTP to run. The problem with keroxide is the performance tops out below what you can get from kerolox let alone cryogenics. Still... maybe an alternate engine config/plume using B9 would be appropriate? I won't make that alternate tank... well, actually, maybe I'll have to... I have this image which I'm 99% sure represents "Gamma Centaur". It's what is very distinctly an RL-10 mounted to what is very distinctly a Vega structural mockup. You can see that they removed/modified the spherical tanks to match the configuration in the diagram below.

 

Wow.  Gamma Centaur...    How did I miss *THAT*    Err...   "Advanced Vega"   = Gamma?   IDK but the Advanced Vega stage would have been powered by H2 + O2...  *see my Lastly comment below for more on this!

 

Link 1)   Talks about Vega and Atlas Hustler; Agena was derived from a Nuclear warhead carrying Rocket for B-58 Hustler supersonic bomber program.   Hence Agena was then known as Hustler.   I post it because it clearly states that NASA knew Agena was about 1/2 as good as Vega:

https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19720073787.pdf

Link 2) Talks about some of the possibilities of Vega.   This document mentions some of the changes that could improve the performance of Vega.

https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19730064945.pdf

Page 6 talks about the GCU being used on the 3rd stage and talks about a 2 stage Vega that eliminates the 3rd stage except the GCU is now mounted on the 2nd stage itself.

 

Link 3)  Talks about Advanced Vega (only by name) no details  but gave me the start to this madness.

https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19730064135.pdf

 

Lastly...  And sadly I don't have a link to the document on Advanced Vega that talks about removing spheres.   HOWEVER given it was an early 1959 program document  and given link 3 above....  I think it might actually have referred to Centaur Gamma....  Since the ABMA document (link 3) does not mention Centaur at all!   I don't know.     the Document I apparently didn't save kept talking about H2 + O2 and I have an **OLD but 1959 time-period correct** chemistry book that describes HTP as H2 + O2 in a Liquid form.

 

Sorry if it feels like I was blowing smoke.    I was linking all these documents together and I missed something....   I downloaded every document seen above on the 12/29 - 12/30 the day I "Corrected" my original RFI on "Advanced Vega," in this thread.      I sadly do computer maintinance every 3 days.... meaning I do not have a browser history to look back at.   So I do not know even the name or publication year of the document that calls out the removal of the extra spheres.

 

 

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4 hours ago, Pappystein said:

~snip~

I'll take your docs and raise you these. Nothing necessarily new, but as far as I know they round out the collection of Vega documents available online. :)

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1EXwCktMKdNQi1CkTu4Stokbz-BX5v7BS
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Rj9WalkmDHVJAJz6ZxtHaqUWcMK1uXbg
https://drive.google.com/open?id=12OE9vjU8g8jau3tiMOD83YPLq7HwlVL1

 

GaKiBjT.png
GLZxf9h.png

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

I'll take your docs and raise you these. Nothing necessarily new, but as far as I know they round out the collection of Vega documents available online. :)

 

Dang, First NICE parts.

2nd your 3 of a kind beats my pair! :P

 

Edited by Pappystein

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Wow you guys have some awesome Atlas docs. Thank you both for sharing!  

(noticed the end of one of them is by Quest. Is that from the old rocket company that was making some cool models from back in the day?

Edited by Saturn5tony

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11 hours ago, Saturn5tony said:

Wow you guys have some awesome Atlas docs. Thank you both for sharing!  

(noticed the end of one of them is by Quest. Is that from the old rocket company that was making some cool models from back in the day?

Most likely, but I don't know anything about it. I think it came from somewhere on NSF.

 

Y'all. This is like... half the probe parts for this update not even.

SX4mB6T.png

 

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On 1/9/2020 at 10:15 AM, DriftedCougar said:

As for 6K avoinics, I'd recomend making it seperate to put on other 0.9375 or 0.625M stages.

That was the problem I was asking about the Avionics for....Because a 2 Stage Vega would  should not use the same computer/GCU.... even if IRL it was *ORIGINALLY* supposed to.

Which brings the question.   1 dome or 2 dome for Vega?   OR alternatively a Strap on Dome Agnostic GCU for Vega, Centaur Upgrade etc..... AKA the Centaur/Vega tank would have nothing on the dome except a side attachment point... and the player can place a GCU on it or not....

On 1/9/2020 at 10:15 AM, DriftedCougar said:

3.Dual engine mount for...reasons. REASONS.

err... Centaur Dual Engine mount?   Assuming that Cobalt is going to do a centaur upgrade... I think Vega and Centaur (they share the same basic tank design concept) would look the same and therefor a 2 engine centaur mounting plate on a Vega Tank would look good.

 

2 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

Y'all. This is like... half the probe parts for this update not even.

2 things... 

1) WOW

2) HALF the PROBES?!   :P

In reading the documents that I didn't have on Vega (I had the Joe Powell but knew you had it so I didn't post it)  I get the feeling that Convair/General Dynamics/Consolidated Vultee / whatever you ant to call it on that date (the name was changing constantly back then and it depended on what division you were in to what name use used)  was already realizing there were problems with centaur but was trying to put a brave face on it (lets move these launches to Centaur to free up developmental funds to improve the equally bad JPL guidance system for the 6K 3rd stage)      Clearly I am reading in between the lines with the advantage of hindsight. 

It is also interesting that Joe Powell didn't call out the mockup of Gamma correctly in his document   "Vega with an unknown engine" is the title of the same picture of the Vega Mockup converted to Gamma.  

Edited by Pappystein

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Nimbus in Unity. Going to stream tomorrow morning, get AIMP/IMP in game, and then see how much progress I can make on this stuff.

XAZqno2.png

 

Closeup of the barely textured / incomplete Nimbus payload deck.

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@CobaltWolf, you have some absolutely gorgeous models.  Thank you for creating and sharing these.

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Cool everything looks! But for some reason I have everything in English. Although in the folder "localization" it seems like there is a Russian language.

Edit: I apologize. This is the russian localization in the "B9PartSwitch" mod.

Edited by BezKartuza

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On 1/10/2020 at 7:29 PM, Probus said:

@CobaltWolf, you have some absolutely gorgeous models.  Thank you for creating and sharing these.

You're welcome! :)

 

13 hours ago, TonedMite133805 said:

As much as I want to know when this update will hit, I also know you can't rush perfection. Keep going! You're doing great!

Yeah, it'll be a bit. This update is already, by my rough count, past 185 new or remade parts. And I'm nowhere near done! :) One of the problems is it's hard to break up these big projects because there's so many mutual decisions to be made. An example would be, both the Vega and Centaur upper stages need to get remade, but they share parts and also should be compatible. So decisions I make for how one fits together affect the other, and I'd want to make sure both work... which means in order to finish the Vega revamp, I'd have to do the modeling for the Centaur revamp... y'know, not a small task. Another excuse reason would be that usually our updates are save breaking, so I don't like making frequent releases.

 

5 hours ago, BezKartuza said:

Cool everything looks! But for some reason I have everything in English. Although in the folder "localization" it seems like there is a Russian language.

Edit: I apologize. This is the russian localization in the "B9PartSwitch" mod.

Yeah, there is no localization in BDB. Personally I'm ok with that - I hate the idea of having to edit all the flavortext in an external file. But also, I add like... a dozen parts a week? If anyone were to localize the mod they'd have to make a long term commitment to support.

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Like I said on stream yesterday, I can't stream today but I'll see how much work I can get done. Nimbus still has a few parts that need to get done, but this is a good start... Hopefully these will all make it in game without issue.

fDLlN9Z.png

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My game on russian language. The inscriptions on the service, command and other modules are not displayed correctly. I want to use your mod, but I do not want to install the English version of the game.
Question:
Is it possible to make it so that regardless of the language of the game, all the inscriptions were in English?
Moreover, it is quite canonical. After all, all the devices are American.

Screenshots:

Spoiler

screenshot3.png

screenshot6.png

screenshot8.png

screenshot7.png

 

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5 minutes ago, BezKartuza said:

My game on russian language. The inscriptions on the service, command and other modules are not displayed correctly. I want to use your mod, but I do not want to install the English version of the game.
Question:
Is it possible to make it so that regardless of the language of the game, all the inscriptions were in English?
Moreover, it is quite canonical. After all, all the devices are American.

Screenshots:

Oh, hahaha. That's not... like, based on the language of the game? That's a long running joke (that has only ever been funny to me) - Tantares came first, and is Soviet/Russian parts portrayed as being built by American companies? So the joke is BDB is American parts made by Russian design bureaus. I personally don't like having functional text on the models in general, so I transliterate English words to Cyrillic without actually translating them. :)

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9 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

Oh, hahaha. That's not... like, based on the language of the game? That's a long running joke (that has only ever been funny to me) - Tantares came first, and is Soviet/Russian parts portrayed as being built by American companies? So the joke is BDB is American parts made by Russian design bureaus. I personally don't like having functional text on the models in general, so I transliterate English words to Cyrillic without actually translating them.

Ok
I just did not understand humor: D

P.S. Some letters remained latin. Maybe should fix some of inscriptions (црев аццесс,
экуипмент стораге)?

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13 minutes ago, BezKartuza said:

Ok
I just did not understand humor: D

P.S. Some letters remained latin. Maybe should fix some of inscriptions (црев аццесс,
экуипмент стораге)?

I believe those are letters that don't have an equivalent. Honestly, the worse it is, the funnier I find it but I think I'm in a minority.

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6 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

I believe those are letters that don't have an equivalent. Honestly, the worse it is, the funnier I find it but I think I'm in a minority.

Well why:
letter Q (eng) - КУ (rus). Well yes, there two letters.
letter W (eng) - В (rus)
But if you think that is better. You know better. You author.
In any case this mod is cool. I adore Saturn - 5 and Gemini!

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I'm really loving the parts from the last update and the current one that's being made. Inspired by many of the pictures on this forum of the beautiful space stations made with many of the newer parts, I finally got around to making Space Station Columbia, a hypothetical Orbiter-Derived Station based around Shuttle Columbia. 

XBRzb4o.jpg

 

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There are a ton of pictures so I put them in under a spoiler, as I don't want to clog the forum:

Spoiler

P62uxFc.png

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RORFdL1.png

Also here's a totally ahistorical and fictional craft, a Delta III-Apollo Block IV spaceship that is preparing to bring Jebediah, Valentina, Bill, and Bob Kerman to Station Columbia. The capsule is painted in a delta-blue and white color scheme, because why not

KsHtYhw.pngzfIsrX9.png

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FIjJYET.png

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PCGc9bg.png

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2wEnmty.png

kFnkrFF.png

 

There's also more pictures on the full imgur gallery, here's the link:

https://imgur.com/gallery/9hnENba

 

Edited by Invaderchaos

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2 hours ago, Invaderchaos said:
  Hide contents

 

WekfVRe.gif

 

FIjJYET.png

 

 

Nice Pictures.   I never understood that one.   You take the Spar off of a Space Shuttle and what do you get?   Another day older and a broken back(on the shuttle).   Structurally there is no way to launch the thing without it's wing spars and the structure of the Wing.   The entire structure would have to be rebuilt to take the stresses of launch without wings on it.   Cheaper to do something else.       That is the same problem that they ran into with Shuttle C etc.   The Loads become higher with less structure underneath.   And that means what remains is actually heavier than you THOUGHT it would be... and thus Not as efficient as you HOPE it would be and in the end it gets canned.   You want to see a Real world set of examples on this.  Watch Mike Patey on YouTube as he builds his various airplanes  The Build of "Scrappy" is a Showcase in the engineering of why Columbia Station could never happen.  

 

BTW  What do you mean Apollo Blk.IV in Delta Blue is AB-Historical?  I thought that really happened!  :P  *JOKE*

Totally seriously,  How the heck did a Delta III lift an Apollo Blk III capsule?  (Blk 3 is the Capsule,  Blk IV is the capsule and an Orbital Module, and Blk V is the same capsule again with a DIFFERENT orbital module with a different SM engine.)  

 

 

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14 minutes ago, Pappystein said:

Blk 3 is the Capsule,  Blk IV is the capsule and an Orbital Module, and Blk V is the same capsule again with a DIFFERENT orbital module with a different SM engine

Block III was the shortened SM paired with three man CM, Block III+ was the five man variant and the first to feature an OM, Block IV featured an expanded OM and a new beefier SM it shared with AARDV Block II, and Block V was a major upgrade to make Apollo lunar capable again. Block V swapped out the battery banks in the SM for solar arrays, a beefed up lunar rated heat shield, beefed up ECLSS, but on LEO missions it still used the Block IV OM because there's only so many ways you can upgrade a tin can. Interestingly in the canon, Block V CSM weighs about 50 kilos less than the Block IV CSM (presumably a Block IV minus the OM). I don't remember if Apollo Block III-V used the LM's Ascent Engine or Descent Engine but it's one of the two. 

Here's a good visualization from the god of space TL graphics AEB himself:

EiJwzqJ.png

 As to how a Delta III could lift an Apollo Block III, I have no idea. Block III comes in at 11(?) tons, Delta III can throw about 9 tons (presumably) a 250x250 ish kilometer 28 degree orbit. 

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34 minutes ago, Stevphfeniey said:

Block III was the shortened SM paired with three man CM, Block III+ was the five man variant and the first to feature an OM, Block IV featured an expanded OM and a new beefier SM it shared with AARDV Block II, and Block V was a major upgrade to make Apollo lunar capable again. Block V swapped out the battery banks in the SM for solar arrays, a beefed up lunar rated heat shield, beefed up ECLSS, but on LEO missions it still used the Block IV OM because there's only so many ways you can upgrade a tin can. Interestingly in the canon, Block V CSM weighs about 50 kilos less than the Block IV CSM (presumably a Block IV minus the OM). I don't remember if Apollo Block III-V used the LM's Ascent Engine or Descent Engine but it's one of the two. 

Here's a good visualization from the god of space TL graphics AEB himself:

EiJwzqJ.png

 As to how a Delta III could lift an Apollo Block III, I have no idea. Block III comes in at 11(?) tons, Delta III can throw about 9 tons (presumably) a 250x250 ish kilometer 28 degree orbit. 

Y’all asking about how a Delta III can lift an Apollo Block IV while I’m asking myself how he got an custom color CSM...

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