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FAR Fighter Challenge BD Armoury AI: 2!!

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Van Disaster

Van Disaster

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I added a playlist for every fight video so far to the top of post 3. Don't give up E805BzRo, had some innovative ideas there.

No fight today, but I was running tests - quite often record them so I can work out what the hell went wrong this time - with a prototype vs the D-10 during dinner & this happened:

Shoddy camerawork because I was eating :P but might be food for thought for anyone else building to fight that monster.

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E805BzRo

E805BzRo

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Yeah, the d-10 is a monster... I built like 100 planes during the last 2 weeks and tested them against d-9 and d-10 - finally I got something done yesterday evening that can take care off d-9 and also the Hawk Moth. But the d-10? No way... sitll trying, though.

Ezbro

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Van Disaster

Van Disaster

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I'm beating it more often than not now, providing my plane doesn't rip itself apart - but it's taking quite some effort :P also "not ripping apart" & "beating d-10 and also beating other things" is a really narrow window - plus I think we're getting to the point where we're actually confusing the BD AI to the point it can give up. And of course there's always an element of luck.

Edit: a little motivational from trials :) not exactly a great fight but an uplifting one.

( plus I completely didn't want to spend several hours uploading something again today ).

Just another quickie for fun - Hawk Moth is far from invulnerable too, plenty of room for new challengers!

.

I wish I knew why the AI loves outside loops...

Edited by Van Disaster
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E805BzRo

E805BzRo

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I'm beating it more often than not now, providing my plane doesn't rip itself apart - but it's taking quite some effort :P also "not ripping apart" & "beating d-10 and also beating other things" is a really narrow window [...]

Good that you mention this. Interesting topic. Some opponents really need a specific treatment. A winner against d-10 might suck against the Skua. I test my planes against all previous chamoins and don't stop until I can reliably beat all of them. I didn't ever achieve that yet, but I would have had a chance with Skua, d-9 and Hawk Moth. I am quite sure that, if I am ever able to build one at all, my d-10 killer will loose against most of the previous champions.

I would be really interested in a contest in which planes fly against the past three champions.

I think we're getting to the point where we're actually confusing the BD AI to the point it can give up.

Couldn't agree more. I noticed that I design crafts more for tricking the autopilot than for anything else. You can build a plane that can corner with 9g at 100m/s (which is in my opinion the way to go for defeating the d-10), but the AI will probably not be able to handle it. After >100 hours of testing it is still unclear to me which features of planes trigger which behavioral patterns of the AI.

Cheers,

Ezbro

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Van Disaster

Van Disaster

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Van Disaster: Can I get a link to your youtube account? It's so I can list it in the OP.

To get anyone's channel, open one of their videos on YT itself and then just click on their name below the video.

@E805BzRo: Poor Skua, it was a nightmare to deal with at first - now it's seeming rather tired. I can build a D-10 killer just by being a better D-10 - just more wing & tighter turns - but it'd die to the first missile from something faster. When I've been fighting it I've noticed sometimes it just flies in circles & ends up in the ground - once or twice it's just flown circles even under attack - which is why I'm wondering if it's an AI bug or if it's just a combination of the way the plane is and the flight computer settings. I fly my craft against a lot of previous ones, I like watching them fight quite apart from testing.

There's also something gridghost brought up - I'm fairly sure there's a bug in FAR's static analysis of the airframe: sometimes if you reload your craft in the hangar you'll get different results from the FAR tools, and I've also noticed ( brought this up before ) that craft can underperform quite badly for a few rounds.

Edited by Van Disaster
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Doke

Doke

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Yeah, the 'specific versus general' design thing was always going to be an issue. That said, I think the newer designs are clearly very good. The competition is so stiff at this point that I wouldn't want to enter anything that can't pull 'red' gs at basically any speed over about 150 m/s.

That said, any changes to BD Armoury (missile effectiveness, AI behavior) will likely mix things up a bit. I also want to see what those 'panther' thrust-vectoring engines can do.

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Van Disaster

Van Disaster

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Cornering isn't the problem so much as cornering and not losing all your energy, unless you can find some way of magicking up more TWR without running out of fuel in 2 minutes. Slow cornering & no acceleration is a recipe for easy missile kills - my latest Moth is getting 50% of it's kills from missiles because of suckering craft into slow turns. I did a version with one engine - saved about 3 tons - and the cornering rate is unbelieveable, but it just doesn't pick up enough.

That fight I posted with the D-10 where the front half of the Moth's wing got shot off & it could hardly turn at all got me wondering though. I've been trying to provoke the AI into hit & run, wondering if just having terrible pitch authority is the way to do it :P that will work fine until it's pointing towards the ground, I guess.

Next up, 4 engines!

Edited by Van Disaster
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Doke

Doke

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Oh, I hope the virtues of acceleration go without saying!

I'm not sure whether it would be advisable to lower the deflection at low speeds to such a degree that the plane is forced to go fast -- I think the problem is that the AI might open airbrakes and cut throttle even in situations where it is going too slow to turn effectively. I don't pretend to understand why it flies the way it flies -- a 'corner speed' setting would be wonderful, though.

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Van Disaster

Van Disaster

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Oh, I hope the virtues of acceleration go without saying!

I'm not sure whether it would be advisable to lower the deflection at low speeds to such a degree that the plane is forced to go fast -- I think the problem is that the AI might open airbrakes and cut throttle even in situations where it is going too slow to turn effectively. I don't pretend to understand why it flies the way it flies -- a 'corner speed' setting would be wonderful, though.

I've stopped using airbrakes, it still has a habit of cutting engines and placing itself right in the chasing craft's gunsights even without them. There must be some brake-attempt vs extend threshold ( I asked for a slider for that a while ago ), perhaps some function of relative speed vs setpoint difference, just wondering if there's ways of provoking it into choosing to extend more. Most of the idea being never to actually be at slow speeds :P

Edit: I was being a little fascetious but... I pulled the rear engines of my latest Moth apart & stuck a third one in, added another tank & shifted the wings a bit. No airframe changes at all other than that. Made sure it wouldn't fall apart, and it just beat Hawk Moth in it's first fight. Lightweight is not the only way, it seems...

22039853640_19c839b4ae_c.jpg

Might even work without the extra tank given I don't usually fill the existing ones.

Edited by Van Disaster
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Dwerto

Dwerto

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This is the plane I am currently working on. It seems to be better than both the d-10 and the Hawk Moth f2b. It may not turn quite as well as the d-10, but it still seems to win almost every time.

The d-10's biggest weakness seems to be missiles.

kLEOIbU.jpg

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SpaceplaneAddict

SpaceplaneAddict

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Don't worry, I'll still run the fight. Dwerto, if you don't mind, I'll just extend the height of the missile rails to they don't overheat.

- - - Updated - - -

Before I put the vid thru editing I need help determining winner, or if I have to rerun.

Near the end: D-10 was turning pretty slow due to DD. I checked in flight(sorry dwerto) and it looked like it was intentional. Hawk Moth was in perfect range of guns, and blew off one elavator and some other stuff. Then, the D-10 tried for a high-G turn, and it fell apart due to aero stress(structural failure, whatever).

Ideas?

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Van Disaster

Van Disaster

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Who crashed first? if they're not out of combat - ie both bingo & under the min alt - then the winner is the one still in the air. All you did was extend the rails, right? otherwise it's as submitted?

Having much amusement watching this fight - it's like watching a dogfighting bomber.

22062029919_01e34f35f8_c.jpg

I should name it something Vulcan related, I guess.

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Van Disaster

Van Disaster

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As if it needed fixing! now it's beating everything I have, again ( almost - one prototype got a gun kill and it's fallen apart a fair number of times ). Still, arg. I'm surprised it's in the sea, tbh.

Uploaded this for a friend who's enjoying watching fights, thought someone might appreciate how majestic this thing looks.

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Van Disaster

Van Disaster

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I usually use IE to upload to YT ( mostly because that's *all* I use IE for so I probably won't crash it or have to restart it mid upload ), so it might be worth trying a different browser. Would be a waste if you've recorded already.

But I can run a fight or two at some point if really needed yep.

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