Boris-Barboris

[1.2.2-1.7.3] AtmosphereAutopilot 1.5.15

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7 hours ago, etheoma said:

For reentry there is an optimal AOA which can hold for a certain altitude because

I understand what you mean, but you should avoid this word like wildfire.

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On 01/09/2017 at 1:49 PM, Boris-Barboris said:

I understand what you mean, but you should avoid this word like wildfire.

Optimal? I don't understand why, there is always an optimal angle of attack for reentry just knowing what it is is the hard part and it will change with altitude and speed but generally you can just get away with pitching as hard as you can before you lose control for the early part while your high up and at basically orbital speeds. or did you mean.

A optimal AOA for reentry would be one that slows you down as fast as possible while also avoiding getting burned up and not pulling excessive G's, although you might also want to extend your range so a lower angle of attack might be called so I suppose you could mean that there is no optimal AOA for every circumstance because it depends on the circumstance?

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1 hour ago, etheoma said:

A optimal AOA for reentry would be one that slows you down as fast as possible while also avoiding getting burned up and not pulling excessive G's, although you might also want to extend your range so a lower angle of attack might be called so I suppose you could mean that there is no optimal AOA for every circumstance because it depends on the circumstance?

Such AOA is good. Optimal as a word has another meaning. It means you have a mathematical function at hand and you are ready to prove that that function under behaviour you propose is minimal (maximal), and you have a proof that no behavour better exists. Those are very, very tough implications.

All I'm saying: you don't need to enter a number numerically in the field, because the orientation you strapped with keyboard keys in FbW mode is just as good enough, as that magic number you would enter in the textbox (Though there are people on this forum, who have physical problems with frequent tapping and prefer mouse input, which can be provided easily with textbox and +- buttons).

Edited by Boris-Barboris

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8 hours ago, SamBelanger said:

I have a question, can your mod work if we adds the RA and OA mods in the GameData folder? :/

Should be fine, but i didn't check.

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Does anyone have any ideas or suggestions how to adapt AA for usage with rotors (AirplanesPlus mod in this case)? It's constantly overcorrecting, so it's just wobbling away. I've tried fiddling around with some of the numbers in the pitch (and yaw) trainer, but even for big changes (factors of 2-10-100), I can't tell much of a difference. It 'feels' a little bit better, but it's still horribly wobbly (for a helicopter with additional propellers a la Eurocopter X3, with adjusted RPM of the main rotor so that at full throttle, it should hold the current height, it's going from an AoA of 3 to -3 and back in about a second most of the time, mostly pitch, but sometimes also yaw).

Edited by Phelan

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2 minutes ago, Boris-Barboris said:

@Phelan Does it wobble with moderation completely off (O hotkey)?

Yup, no change at all (and I checked the hotkey manager, just in case it wasn't O for me)

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Just now, Phelan said:

Yup, no change at all (and I checked the hotkey manager, just in case it wasn't O for me)

Ok, show me the pic of the plane and in-flight picture while oscillating with FlightModel, Pitch_ang_vel and AoA controller windows open.

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29 minutes ago, Boris-Barboris said:

Ok, show me the pic of the plane and in-flight picture while oscillating with FlightModel, Pitch_ang_vel and AoA controller windows open.

mkqc0.jpg2mhc321.jpg

(http://de.tinypic.com/r/mkqc0/9 and http://de.tinypic.com/r/2mhc321/9 for the full pics)

 

[edit:] Ah, my mistake, you meant pitch ang vel, not pitch and acc, one moment :)]

Here:

29zalbd.png

(http://de.tinypic.com/r/29zalbd/9)

Edited by Phelan

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@Phelan 

1. Try switching max AoA inside pitch ang vel controller back to 15-20. Guys, AA will fail on small values, 4-5 is reasonable minimum for very capritious rockets. Anything flying should have 15+ in my opinion.

2. reducing cubic_Kp on AoA controller may tame it down.

3. Strength_mult of Cruse flight controller in advanced options can be reduced, but i think the first point is the most important.

Edited by Boris-Barboris

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11 hours ago, Boris-Barboris said:

@Phelan 

1. Try switching max AoA inside pitch ang vel controller back to 15-20. Guys, AA will fail on small values, 4-5 is reasonable minimum for very capritious rockets. Anything flying should have 15+ in my opinion.

2. reducing cubic_Kp on AoA controller may tame it down.

3. Strength_mult of Cruse flight controller in advanced options can be reduced, but i think the first point is the most important.

Well, (2) and (3) don't help one bit, there is no noticeable change whatsoever. And reducing the AoA to 1-2 actually does help, but only for a few moments, it pretty quickly oscillates to the "usual" 3-4 degree AoA again. Setting it to 15-20 doesn't have any effect whatsoever after that (nor of course if I start with that setting).

Ah well, it still 'works' for brute-forcing my way through the atmosphere without having to regularly adjust the heading on MechJeb's surface navigation tool, it's just ugly to look at (luckily, Kerbals don't get motion sick :D). Thank for trying to help in any case  :)

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You might have even better luck with TCA mod for helicopters and other VTOLs. Personaly I like to mess around with kOS scripts. My own kOS scripts are not even close to features that AA, TCA or pilot assistant provide, but it provides some fun while developing it and always learn some tiny piece of something new whenever is need to upgrade of existing scripts.

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Yeah, I might sometime look closer into AVC, but I already have enough programming to do at my job, don't really want to add that aspect to my KSP.

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Liked the idea of this mod but threw it in and couldn't figure out how to implement it. Brought up the menus but browsed the documentation and seems very convoluted. 

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1 hour ago, FlyingTexan said:

Liked the idea of this mod but threw it in and couldn't figure out how to implement it. Brought up the menus but browsed the documentation and seems very convoluted. 

Push P to engage the Master Switch; it'll kick you into Fly-By-Wire mode. Stick between the Standard Fly-By-Wire (for manual control) and the Cruise Control. You can use the Cruise Control GUI to set speed, altitude and course direction, which is handy for those survey missions halfway across Kerbin. I've found Fly-by-wire mode to be a good thing to have on during docking maneuvers as well.

FWIW, just that tiny little piece of the mod is what makes it so totally worth it. As for the rest of it, well...I'm in the same boat. I need to RTFM one of these days, see if I can't figure out how to keep my planes at a 40 degree AoA through re-entry without having to adjust it every now and again.

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Just curious, does dramatically altering the way a plane flies (e.g. detaching something big) affect how well AA controls things? I have a X-1-based recreation that is launched from a B-29-based launcher, and while the B-29 + X-1 flies fine, when I drop the B-29 AA tends to send the X-1 into a spiral. Is this expected?

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@awang

1). Yes, big airframe changes break the model and usually should result in a couple of seconds of spasms.
2). AA only controls the vessels on wich you manually pressed master switch. If you're connected and flying under AA, I don't think it's possible to make AA actually be activated on both crafts right after separation. It's either B-29 under AA, or X-1 - depends on wich one owned the root part, or, maybe, the owner of "Control from here" part.

Edited by Boris-Barboris

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Ah, that would explain that behavior. Is there a way to mitigate this? Fly using stock SAS for a while, then switch to AA? Or maybe "reset" AA somehow (if there even is such a functionality) to try to get it to "forget" it was flying a very different craft a few seconds earlier (if that even makes sense)? Something else?

Luckily, I'm not too worried about having AA active on both craft, since the B-29 doesn't seem to be nearly as twitchy/unstable as the X-1 after separation. The B-29 really only needs to get to the ground and land, too, while I'd prefer the X-1 be more controllable since there's less margin for reaching altitude/speed records.

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6 hours ago, awang said:

Is there a way to mitigate this?

No, not really. Reset would behave just the same: spasms are normal when first starting AA on recently-spawned vessel.

6 hours ago, awang said:

Fly using stock SAS for a while, then switch to AA?

This will probably work, but it's easier to just try instead of guessing. My advice would be to make X-1 stable enough for it to fly OK for 5-10 of seconds without any control aid, and undocking while controlling X-1, so you don't have to manually switch vessels.

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11 hours ago, Boris-Barboris said:

No, not really. Reset would behave just the same: spasms are normal when first starting AA on recently-spawned vessel.

Ah, this makes sense. 

11 hours ago, Boris-Barboris said:

This will probably work, but it's easier to just try instead of guessing. My advice would be to make X-1 stable enough for it to fly OK for 5-10 of seconds without any control aid, and undocking while controlling X-1, so you don't have to manually switch vessels.

Gave it a try. Flew with stock SAS for about 30 seconds, then switched to AA. AA took about another 30-40ish seconds of spiraling all over the place until it figured out how to regain control. Seems I'll stick with stock SAS for the powered part of the flight, and switch to AA for the landing.

The X-1 has control when detaching, so no worries there. I do have to switch momentarily to the B-29 to pitch it down more so I don't get a collision, but that's maybe a second or two of control at most.

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