More Drills less actual output?(Fixing my mining vessel!)

[Arugela]

I just ran a ship I usually fill in 27 days in 1.0.4 and it took 87 days. Is this correct? What is affecting mining now. (Or my ship more realistically.)

I'll note it used to take me 27 days with 4 drills. It now takes 87 days with 8 drills. something is wrong. I wonder if it's electricity or heat but I haven't widdled it down yet. They say they are taking in 100% load too... IS the ISRU less efficient. Is there a problem with running the big and little ISRU at the same time? They seem to only work one at a time and not play together well potentially too.

BTW, I have one button that activates the big ISRU and the little one. I press it twice and they are all start/deploy buttons. No toggles. Does one override the other?

NVM, it's starting at like 23% on the drills and something like 0.09%. It's only 100% after I have used full warp at like 100000x speed. That may be a bug too. It does not go back to the proper display after going to 100% from warp.

So, what makes drills not take in 100% load. It has enough electricity.

Should it now take me 87-99 days for what once took only 27 before the patch?

Edit: NVM, I'm assuming from what I'm seeing the drills slowly warm up... It gets up to 100% eventually. And it displays more gain when in warp than previously. (-6600vs-2700 at max warp) But it takes 3 times longer with this setup after I doubled the drills from 1.0.4. I'm missing something.

In fact the old one now does it in 19 days in 1.0.5... The numbers seem to be displaying correctly but something is off. Could it be the new ISRU? The 4 drill version is only using the big ISRU not the combination of them like in the 8 drill version? is it a conflict with the converters? Is only the small one running processing ore instead of both of them?

8 drills:

4 drills:

Edited November 10, 2015 by Arugela

[Shisouka]

New save game? Resources are seeded on every new game, so you might end up with lower density in a new game.

[MarvinKitFox]

If you can cook one meal in one hour in a kitchen with one stove, how many meals can you cook if you cram 73 stoves in there?

*not* 73

Your constraints for mining are

1) electricity and

2) temperature.

By adding a mountain of extra heat generators without increasing your heat removal at all, you have merely ensured that you are overheating all the quicker.

[Red Iron Crown]

The small ISRU convertor is lossy, i.e. it creates less mass of LF or O than it consumes in ore. Could that explain what you're seeing?

There's also an "optimum core temperature" for converters now, it takes some time for the ISRU to get up to temperature which may affect the time.

Edited November 10, 2015 by Red Iron Crown

[Arugela]

I'm using both the small and large ISRU at the same time except in the 4 drill ship which is a build from 1.0.4.

It's listing that it's gaining more per second in the resource window. -6600--6900 in the 8 mine vessel. And only -3400ish at full warp on the runway(x1000000?!) for the 4 drill ship. But it's not actually gaining more. I'm not sure what it is doing. It's displaying numbers that should be giving it more ore/fuel.

It also only fills up the liquid fuel and ox and not the monopropelliant until after the LF and ox are full. which seems a bit odd.

BTW, all of those pics are from the same game. I just took them when I made the thread.

And I have added to the heat removeal. But how do you even tell what it is doing or how it is affecting them. the indicators on the items don't say anything and everything acts as if it should be gaining more resources per second.

Edit:If I turn off the little ISRU from the action group that runs them and just use the big ISRU I get done in 10 days. (This is all on the 8x drill version of the ship) If I run just the little ISRU it takes the exact same 91-94 days. I'm not having problems with overheating with the large ISRU. The little one cannot be producing that much heat. It has to be some sort of a conflict. It's acting like only one of them is active when I use them both at the same time. In this setup both are trying to do all 4 types of activities at once.(LF+OX, LF, OX, MP)

If I set it so the big ISRU does LF+OX, LF, OX and the little one does only MP It takes 14 days and fills the mono first then fills LF and OX but the OX takes alot longer to fill then the LF even though they should be filling at almost the exact same rate... There is something funny with this.

Edited November 13, 2015 by Arugela

[Snark]

I haven't gotten far enough in my new 1.0.5 career yet to get to mining. However, I seem to recall from the various devnotes for 1.0.5 that heat management is becoming more important for mining in 1.0.5; the addition of "core temperature" makes a difference, and you'll need radiators where you didn't, previously.

No idea how to manage that or what you see in the UI (since I haven't gotten that far yet). However, if you're having difficulty, I would imagine that turning on thermal debug info would be helpful-- have you tried that? Alt-F12, Debug -> Physics -> Thermal, then check the little checkbox that says to show thermal info on right-click context menus.

This will show temperatures, heat flows, etc. for the various parts, hopefully it will give you something to work with in figuring out what's going on.

[Arugela]

I have had the thermal debug on. they do not produce enough heat to even remotely dent the heat. It's not a heat issue. It seems to have to do with resource being piped with two different types of ISRU on at the same time.

I'll try to make it so I can see them but there does not seem to be heat being built up in my ship. I have a lot of heat dissipation already. Unless I just can't see it for that part.

And the issue doesn't exist when I have only the large ISRU on. I don't know why the small would produce that much heat. It seems like it's just overriding the large ISRU as it runs the amount of time same when it's just the small as if they were both running. I think that eliminates heat logically. If it were heat that should varry between different setups. Not have it act identically with both running and just the small ISRU running while the large ISRU works perfectly on it's own.

Looking at the ISRU running I'm starting to think it might have to do with incoming ore and how they behave when it doesn't have enough. It seems to default to the small one and then run really slowly.

Edited November 13, 2015 by Arugela

[Red Iron Crown]

You should try to reproduce it on a simpler ship, just the two ISRUs plus whatever is needed to support them. That way you can tell if it's something particular to that design or a more general issue.

the little one does only MP

I thought the small one couldn't do monoprop?

[Claw]

Edit:If I turn off the little ISRU from the action group that runs them and just use the big ISRU I get done in 10 days. (This is all on the 8x drill version of the ship) If I run just the little ISRU it takes the exact same 91-94 days.

That's probably exactly what is going on.

The MiniISRU was intentionally set to run at 10% the rate of the bigger one, which pretty much matches your results. What is probably happening is that the MiniISRU is getting first chance at the ore harvested that frame, so it's consuming all (or most) of it before the BigISRU has a chance.

As for the thermo, ISRU drills and converters use a CoreHeat system, which is completely decoupled from the thermo overlay. And is fairly isolated (though not completely) from the rest of thermo.

Finally, there is a bug at the highest time warp for mining vessels in focus. Sometimes the temp hangs up at strange values. If you are going to high warp for extended times, then it's probably best to be at another vessel, or at the tracking station. (I imagine you did it for testing, but just FYI.) Though keep an eye on the ISRU, because sometimes it shuts off when you are away. I'm not sure yet if that's another bug...

Cheers,

-Claw

[Sanic]

According to the description, the small ISRU can make both, but at a lower efficiency.

[Claw]

I thought the small one couldn't do monoprop?

The Mini is handicapped by excessive heating and a poor production rate, but puts out the same resources.

[Red Iron Crown]

The Mini is handicapped by excessive heating and a poor production rate, but puts out the same resources.

My mistake, I seem to remember reading that in the leadup to 1.0.5's release.

[Arugela]

On a bit of a sidenote. Is more than one engineer supposed to increase the rate of gain from mining or does it only matter if you have one maxed out engineer in the ship?

[Claw]

I believe just one engineer. I'd say it checks for the highest level, but haven't confirmed that myself.