WW2 Warships 0.5.1 - Is there actually something happening? Stay tuned!

[Veskenapper]

2 hours ago, viceguy said:

 

can you take some pictures of the ship so we could see what it looks like? will be easier to say what is wrong if we can see it because it simply sounds like your ship is too heavy right now, but it might be other things

Heavy? I see – so that's a thing too! I just assumed the various plates' "lifting capacity" would be large enough to carry any ship in their size class. So far it's only the main hull that's done, with a single level of deck plates over the boilers, so more or less a "tub" with a few essential parts in it. It weighs about 200.000 tons.

[Azimech]

On 26-2-2016 at 1:09 PM, victor tan said:

Hey @Azimech ,

I'd just like to ask, does your mod change the physics of KSP Water? The recent water update makes massive B9 HX Ships that I built float without sinking, which is really bizarre. I wish to use your mod to have my ships sink into the water realistically with adjustable buoyancy. However I'm concerned that, as it's stated in the OP, that ships sink without a certain part. I'm confused if it's all parts or just the mod. Not trying to offend, but I prefer my ships built using a multitude of ways, especially HX parts for massive ships. Still an amazing mod though, especially with many of the old mods like infinitedice are now gone.

My mod does not change the water physics. It allows the balancing of a very heavy ship hull with buoyant parts, and sinking is done with the destruction of hull type B panels that remove water which is magically generated by hull type A bottom hull panels. It's very flexible and allows for building hulls in a variety of ways.

[Azimech]

16 hours ago, Veskenapper said:

I've just run into some weird issues, and got a few questions (likely regarding the A and B type hull plates). I've attached them as instructed - keel, then A, then B; and I'm pumping water like a superhero at first. However, after getting water down a whole lot, the bar starts filling up again. The B-types are all either inactive due to missing water, or FLOATING IT at 100% load; meanwhile I could find one A-type plate on either side filled up with water. I tried to manually get those pieces to PUMP IT, with little apparent effect. The ship itself, meanwhile, has the upper bit of the stern end sticking barely out of the water, while the entire bow end is deeply submerged.

What exactly is going on in this scenario? I've got a bunch of structural plates on top and inside of the B-type plates, and the ship's superstructure is more or less waterproof (though I don't know if that even matters, as the interior is flooded the moment I land in water).

It's most likely you've forgotten to add a Hull type B to the action groups, this happens often, even to me. A bug in KSP has the effect that if you add parts mirrored, add function to action groups and then remove and re-add them, you need to go back to action groups, remove those two from the list and re-add them.
It can also happen you think you attach a B to an A, but miss and attach it to the next.
I should add this to the FAQ.

The interiour seems to flood because the whole mechanic is a workaround for the lack of fluid dynamics, real flooding doesn't exist in KSP.

[Veskenapper]

33 minutes ago, Azimech said:

It's most likely you've forgotten to add a Hull type B to the action groups, this happens often, even to me. A bug in KSP has the effect that if you add parts mirrored, add function to action groups and then remove and re-add them, you need to go back to action groups, remove those two from the list and re-add them.
It can also happen you think you attach a B to an A, but miss and attach it to the next.
I should add this to the FAQ.

Yeah, that does make sense. There are a lot of plates, and I've used mirroring, so I'll try removing all action groups and re-adding them. It all "kinda" worked when the boat was ~150 meters long, but it stopped kinda working after I added a second superlarge keel (with A+B plates).

[Veskenapper]

6 hours ago, Azimech said:

It's most likely you've forgotten to add a Hull type B to the action groups, this happens often, even to me. A bug in KSP has the effect that if you add parts mirrored, add function to action groups and then remove and re-add them, you need to go back to action groups, remove those two from the list and re-add them.
It can also happen you think you attach a B to an A, but miss and attach it to the next.
I should add this to the FAQ.

Alright, so I figured it out. The action groups were all good, and all B-plates were connected to A-plates. However, since I want to minimize part count, I used the longest plates I could find to run along the length of the double superlarge keel.

That means I had 6x A416-plates along the bottom, and 12x B48-plates plus a single B44-plate along the sides. Since this do not match the length of two superlong keels, I also had to put a single A44 plate on the seam between the two keels, and *that* was the one which would not empty out (as it had no B-plates connected). For now I've just left a gaping hole in the bottom of the boat, but it floats!

Now I have another question, though: Do I need to keep the A-plates running parallel to the keel plates in order to keep COM in the right place? I love the way this mod lets us properly exploit the seas, but I've got to ask since I'm still a little confused as to how the whole "water appears, then goes out" mechanic works. I tried making one variant with angled A- and B-plates, in order to get a more V-shaped hull, but that design just sank like a rock even after going down to 0 water.

Edit: See image; this is the sinking rock, with plate types MSPainted on: http://imgur.com/8uUTXtX

Edited February 29, 2016 by Veskenapper

[ThaZeus]

Where can i download this from?!!? you need to put it on spacedock and link to op.

[SaturnianBlue]

I finally finished the Prinz Eugen Heavy Cruiser! The 1055 part vessel is pretty close to the real thing, at 16.8 M/s.

 

DOWNLOAD

I wonder how 0.5 will affect the ship.

[LTRyan]

7 hours ago, ThaZeus said:

Where can i download this from?!!? you need to put it on spacedock and link to op.

http://mods.curse.com/ksp-mods/kerbal/241929-ww2-warships

[Azimech]

11 hours ago, ThaZeus said:

Where can i download this from?!!? you need to put it on spacedock and link to op.

Hmmm ... it's on Space Dock, maybe I've forgotten to update the OP.

[Azimech]

14 hours ago, Veskenapper said:

Alright, so I figured it out. The action groups were all good, and all B-plates were connected to A-plates. However, since I want to minimize part count, I used the longest plates I could find to run along the length of the double superlarge keel.

That means I had 6x A416-plates along the bottom, and 12x B48-plates plus a single B44-plate along the sides. Since this do not match the length of two superlong keels, I also had to put a single A44 plate on the seam between the two keels, and *that* was the one which would not empty out (as it had no B-plates connected). For now I've just left a gaping hole in the bottom of the boat, but it floats!

Now I have another question, though: Do I need to keep the A-plates running parallel to the keel plates in order to keep COM in the right place? I love the way this mod lets us properly exploit the seas, but I've got to ask since I'm still a little confused as to how the whole "water appears, then goes out" mechanic works. I tried making one variant with angled A- and B-plates, in order to get a more V-shaped hull, but that design just sank like a rock even after going down to 0 water.

Edit: See image; this is the sinking rock, with plate types MSPainted on: http://imgur.com/8uUTXtX

You need buoyancy modifiers. These are structural plates larger than a specific minimum. If you open the description it will show a value like "buoyancy = 20". Choose the plates appropriate for you, balance by placing bow/stern and at the widest points possible, and adjust height. For example if you want a hull that floats lower like many warships did, place the plates higher, in a horizontal orientation. This makes the ship more stable as well. If you have a bow or stern that goes deeper or higher, experiment there as well. Balancing a ship is easy in theory; in practice it takes a long time, best to do this when it's feature complete. By the way ... 200k tons is 90k tons heavier than my 360m. aircraft carrier, so I'm not sure what you did but you'd need a huge amount of structural plates to overcome this, making the hull even heavier.

10 hours ago, SaturnianBlue said:

I finally finished the Prinz Eugen Heavy Cruiser! The 1055 part vessel is pretty close to the real thing, at 16.8 M/s.

 

DOWNLOAD

I wonder how 0.5 will affect the ship.

0.5 needs a long debugging period

[Veskenapper]

9 hours ago, Azimech said:

You need buoyancy modifiers. These are structural plates larger than a specific minimum. If you open the description it will show a value like "buoyancy = 20". Choose the plates appropriate for you, balance by placing bow/stern and at the widest points possible, and adjust height. For example if you want a hull that floats lower like many warships did, place the plates higher, in a horizontal orientation. This makes the ship more stable as well. If you have a bow or stern that goes deeper or higher, experiment there as well. Balancing a ship is easy in theory; in practice it takes a long time, best to do this when it's feature complete. By the way ... 200k tons is 90k tons heavier than my 360m. aircraft carrier, so I'm not sure what you did but you'd need a huge amount of structural plates to overcome this, making the hull even heavier.

I have no idea how you made something so big as light as that – I keep passing 200k tons before even starting to build a flight deck

Buoyant plates helped a lot; I stick to the largest ones, which give b=20 each. Keep running into problems, though; so I must be doing something wrong. Would a bunch of smaller ones with b=30 be cumulative, and float my boat better? Because I'm trying to use as large parts as I can now, and any tips would be very much welcome (what I'm going for is replicating a Forrestal-class carrier, so 300 meters long, 18-20 meters from waterline to flight deck, a draft of 10 meters, and a 40 meter beam at the waterline.)

The only design I've made which was buoyant enough to have a good and high draft ended up tipping over on every launch attempt; probably because I put a bunch of buoyancy plates underneath and out to the sides from the keel. I tried that, and also tried sandwiching from 3 to 8 layers of of buoyant plates on top of the keel, I tried placing the A- and B-plates pointing down, and tried all sorts of creative approaches to angling the buoyant structural plates – but it still won't let me get a decent distance from water to where the flight deck ought to be.

[DuoDex]

Could you post the craft file for that aircraft carrier? I was hoping to use it as a recovery vessel for the Go For Launch project if you wouldn't mind and if it doesn't have too many parts.

[Muffinman840]

So I decided to use deck armor sections for a "land battleship" and I've found they are obscenely strong, considering their description says "less armored..." Takes 10+ battleship gun hits to destroy the plates. In fact, nothing short of a direct hit with a nuclear bomb/cannon did any appriciable damage

I realize the system is designed with water flooding in mind, but I would think that deck armor wouldn't stand up at all to that kind of abuse in any situation.

 

Or should I use different plates?

[Veskenapper]

So I think I figured it out – using a bunch of very light plates with the highest buoyancy is the way to get really huge ships to float!

Would be great if we were able to use a single 1000 ton plates instead of 10x 100 ton plates, to reduce part count, but at least I'm getting somewhere

[Kerbal Kobain]

Hey, new to the ksp forum here. I downloaded the ww2 boat mod however the big sister's hyperlink links to kerbal stuff which is down right now so I was wondering if there was a new link to that. Also when I try to load a craft file from one of the people here who made the simple "Hull" I get an error trying to load it saying I'm missing this following part:  "mumech.MJ2.AR202" would that part be from another mod? I've re-installed 3 times just wondering where that part is and what I'm missing,

 

Thanks, Rock on

[viceguy]

15 hours ago, Veskenapper said:

So I think I figured it out – using a bunch of very light plates with the highest buoyancy is the way to get really huge ships to float!

Would be great if we were able to use a single 1000 ton plates instead of 10x 100 ton plates, to reduce part count, but at least I'm getting somewhere

yeah i usually end up with 200 plates on inside of ship to make it float properly

 

 

9 hours ago, Kerbal Kobain said:

Hey, new to the ksp forum here. I downloaded the ww2 boat mod however the big sister's hyperlink links to kerbal stuff which is down right now so I was wondering if there was a new link to that. Also when I try to load a craft file from one of the people here who made the simple "Hull" I get an error trying to load it saying I'm missing this following part:  "mumech.MJ2.AR202" would that part be from another mod? I've re-installed 3 times just wondering where that part is and what I'm missing,

 

Thanks, Rock on

The mod that is missing is Mechjeb

[Kerbal Kobain]

5 hours ago, viceguy said:

yeah i usually end up with 200 plates on inside of ship to make it float properly

 

 

The mod that is missing is Mechjeb

@viceguy Thank you very much! Very new to this game 

[viceguy]

1 hour ago, Kerbal Kobain said:

@viceguy Thank you very much! Very new to this game 

 

i just googled it

[Azimech]

On 2-3-2016 at 7:20 AM, Muffinman840 said:

So I decided to use deck armor sections for a "land battleship" and I've found they are obscenely strong, considering their description says "less armored..." Takes 10+ battleship gun hits to destroy the plates. In fact, nothing short of a direct hit with a nuclear bomb/cannon did any appriciable damage

I realize the system is designed with water flooding in mind, but I would think that deck armor wouldn't stand up at all to that kind of abuse in any situation.

 

Or should I use different plates?

The new BDA version has changed weapon damage dramatically. Version 0.5 will be balanced to cope with the new situation.

On 4-3-2016 at 0:06 PM, viceguy said:

yeah i usually end up with 200 plates on inside of ship to make it float properly

 

I wonder how large you guys build your ships

On 2-3-2016 at 1:37 AM, DuoDex said:

Could you post the craft file for that aircraft carrier? I was hoping to use it as a recovery vessel for the Go For Launch project if you wouldn't mind and if it doesn't have too many parts.

Ouch ... that carrier is from December and is built with the old panels. I could build a new one with less parts but I would like to know the preferred dimensions, the old one is 360 meter, larger than a Nimitz.

On 4-3-2016 at 2:33 AM, Kerbal Kobain said:

Hey, new to the ksp forum here. I downloaded the ww2 boat mod however the big sister's hyperlink links to kerbal stuff which is down right now so I was wondering if there was a new link to that. Also when I try to load a craft file from one of the people here who made the simple "Hull" I get an error trying to load it saying I'm missing this following part:  "mumech.MJ2.AR202" would that part be from another mod? I've re-installed 3 times just wondering where that part is and what I'm missing,

 

Thanks, Rock on

I'll put Big Ships online soon.

Edited March 5, 2016 by Azimech

[Azimech]

Big Ships is back online. http://spacedock.info/mod/390/Big%20Ships

 

[Brice04]

I need some help, I can't install KerbPaint to color my future ships :/ (I'm using the latest download for Kerbpaint and it doesn't work).

Nevermind, this was caused by the use of DirectX11

Edited March 13, 2016 by Brice04
Solved

[Azimech]

WW2 Warships has been updated to version 0.5.

Attention!

 Major update 0.5 changes a lot of parts! This breaks most ships built before 0.5. Here are instructions to solve this.
Prior to updating to version 0.5 do the following:
* Make a backup of your ship.
* Remove the following parts from your ship: ship turbine(s), boiler(s), electrical generator(s), funnel(s), rudder(s), turret hardpoint(s) and save it.
* Update your version of WW2 Warships and/or Big Ships to version 0.5
* Add the new parts to your ship.

*All ships built before 0.5 will have a maximum amount of water which is higher than in the revised hull plating A. This is because of how KSP stores resources in craft files. It's recommended to use the text replace function of a text editor like Notepad++ to give them the right value.
The correct amount per plate:
A11 - 150
A22 - 300
A44 - 600
A48 - 1200
A88 - 2400

Notepad++ can also be easily used to replace the obsolete LiquidFuel resource with HeavyFuelOil or just reduce it's value to zero.

Changelog:

* Replaced Squad models for ship turbine, boiler, turret hardpoints, electrical generator and funnel with my own. They're not very refined yet and the textures are lacking, but I've only just started in the world of 3D modeling. Textures will not be updated before KSP 1.1 arrives because I then want to use the material based shaders of Unity 5.
* Boiler: added a second type (called Boiler Alternative) with internal mechanic using ModuleEngineFX so they can be throttled. This gives the ability to lower fuel consumption based on power requirement. These boilers produce smoke and sound. Their throttle response is slow. See the note about individual throttles.  
* Boiler: original boiler still uses ModuleResourceConverter for anyone not interested in the ability to throttle them. Fuel consumption is high, they don't produce smoke nor sound. 
* Electrical Generator: added a larger one, increased power requirement but not entirely at the level I want them. The sound is more like a generator.
* Ship turbine: nice three bladed animated propeller using stock FXModuleAnimateThrottle. Small problem: they don't rotate when put in reverse. 
* Ship turbine: added a velocity curve. This means a lot of torque for accelerating from zero speed to overcome the stock mechanic to slow ships down if their speed is lower than 1 knot. I capped it on the other end so sadly no more ships reaching fantasy speeds. They are able to work on land so people who want to drive their ships to the sea are still able to do it without extra engine parts.
* Added a simple bridge model in three sizes (WW2W only) No IVA or kerbal entry/exit yet.
* BDA and NAS have reworked their way of doing damage so I had to adjust a lot of part parameters.
* Lowered mass on most parts, don't be surprised your ship will have half the mass of what it used to ... it's a bit closer to real life. Take care with heavy turrets and your CoM, in some cases it's needed to widen the ship or place more buyoant parts on the inside of the outer hull. Capsizing is a real danger!
* Increased thermalMassModifier for most parts, especially crucial parts like boilers and electrical generators. BDA/NAS weapons work with heat and this heat can easily go right through a ship, so increasing thermalMassModifier can be translated as "increasing armor rating".
* Modified buoyancy rating for most parts because of decreased mass. Check your existing ships, most of them will need to be rebalanced. Warning, ships can now capsize.
* Modified rudder max deflection to be more in line with the decreased mass. If you feel your ship becomes to sluggish, add another one.
* Changed LiquidFuel to HeavyFuelOil. This was needed because of a certain flow rule of the original and it wouldn't let it be bypassed. All hull types A have this new fuel.
* Command center and bridges now have the Davon Trottle Control Systems module embedded in. If you want to have individual control of boilers, electrical generators and turbines, install this mod. It's not needed but I really recommend it.

 

Edited March 14, 2016 by Azimech

[Azimech]

I'm rebuilding some designs.

BB: roughly the same size as the Montana class (295m), 55kton, 6 large boilers, 4 large turbines, total 50MN thrust, flank speed 27kn (14.1m/s).
CVA: with the same hull, 45kton, flank speed 31kn (16m/s).
CA: 16kton, 6 medium boilers, 4 medium turbines, total 20MN thrust, flank speed 33kn (17m/s).

 

 

[Azimech]

 

[Azimech]

I'd like some feedback on how to proceed. For example, how would the community feel the creation of a contracts pack and tech tree for use in career mode?

What do you feel should have my focus?