Does Toyota brand (and Japanese cars in general) are better than European and American ones

[Pawelk198604]

I've heard that Japanese cars in particular that of Toyota, are exceptionally good quality and rarely require maintenance.
At the moment I can not afford, but if I had the money I would have bought a car this company, yet do not have a driving license but I have Asperger's syndrome :D

I think that in the course of the license will be the hardest for me probably parallel parking, but apparently Toyota Auris had, automatic park, collision detection (like TCAS in planes ;) ) detection of unintended road lane change, and detection of road signs. Edited November 18, 2015 by Pawelk198604

[Darnok]

Models made in Japan are good quality, models made in factories located outside of Japan aren't.

[SargeRho]

If topgear is anything to go by, Toyota pickups are indestructible.

[Streetwind]

Haha, I remember that poor Toyota and what it had to go through :D


Anyway, for stuff like this there is a large amount of sources you can google up. Here is one example: [url]http://www.reliabilityindex.com/manufacturer[/url]

As I said, there are plenty others. Never trust a single source's claims, but if the same manufacturers show at the top in multiple different independent studies, then that'll start to be a pretty strong indicator.

[cantab]

In the UK at least Japanese cars tend to do very well on reliability, with Honda and Toyota top. But reliability is only one good thing about a car. And really every company has made some good cars and some awful ones.

I find parallel parking fairly easy. Now reverse parking into a bay, that's what I'm rubbish at, it feels like dumb luck whether I line up neatly or straddle two spaces. But generally the manoeuvres are simple-ish. It's the other idiots on the road and the weird junction layouts you have to watch out for.

[YNM]

Depends on country and region I guess. For cars down here, Toyota are way too common so most people are used to it anyway, including the repair shops and spareparts availability. Honda comes second, then everything else is pretty much mixed, with western things being rare (not quite that way nowadays though). For motorcycle (which, I guess, is only very common down here) it's Honda then Yamaha (guess this is the reason why they put slogans in our language on their championship racing vehicles !) and then whatever else left. Buy cars / vehicle / anything that have good support in the country or region - that means no need to worry when suddenly a problem appears ! Features are more failure spots so guess customer support and support availability should be the first thing to consider. Also, unless you plan to own it 'till it's death, reselling price should also be considered.

[SpaceplaneAddict]

My family's owns some Toyota's, I personally kinda like em. The only maintainable we've had to do on them in 2 years are tire changes, and (1) oil change. And that's also living in the north of Canada.

-SPAddict
Dont know about other brands tho...

[cantab]

Land Rover too, though they are quite notorious for unreliability. Go anywhere you like - and break down there :D

[SomeGuy12]

I can confirm that Edmunds lists the base model Camry sedans as the most reliable vehicle in that category (medium cost small sedans). I considered purchasing a recent model used one myself recently (stuck with my old Honda for now)

[Camacha]

[quote name='Pawelk198604']I've heard that Japanese cars in particular that of Toyota, are exceptionally good quality and rarely require maintenance.[/QUOTE]

Every usable car requires regular maintenance.

[Kryten]

[quote name='llanthas']I find it pretty hilarious that Jeeps are one of the least reliable brands in the world...[/QUOTE]
Well, they haven't actually been producing for the military since the 60s. When your market is mostly civilians who just want a giant status symbol and are never likely to even take it off-road, reliability isn't too high a priority.

[Mighty1]

I have an Auris 2007 made in Turkey and except regular maintenance all i ever had to change was the battery and that was 2 years ago. If I ever have to buy a new car it will be a Japanese car again.

[justidutch]

I drive an electric vehicle, the Mitsubishi I-Miev. Had it for 13 months now, and I love it. The up-front cost is more, but if you hang on to it and drive it for about 6 years you start 'making money' on it, in terms of the difference of price between gas and electricity. Besides not having to pay for gas, the two big things I love about it are:
1) maintenance, there is basically none. No oil changes, no belts, highly reduced care and feeding of mechanical brakes (if you do it right 90% of your braking uses a regenerative process that puts energy back into the system, you don;t touch the mechanical brakes hardly at all).
2) impact on the environment, since I live in a region of a country that produces electricity with a somewhat limited impact on the environment. Comparatively speaking. No burning of fossil fuels at least, in terms of my car itself and the production of electricity (mostly hydro dams which I realize do in fact impact the environment but probably not nearly as much as say a coal plant)

If any of you ever have the means to go electric, I sincerely hope you at least give it good consideration.

[Mighty1]

[quote name='justidutch']I drive an electric vehicle, the Mitsubishi I-Miev. Had it for 13 months now, and I love it. The up-front cost is more, but if you hang on to it and drive it for about 6 years you start 'making money' on it, in terms of the difference of price between gas and electricity. Besides not having to pay for gas, the two big things I love about it are:
1) maintenance, there is basically none. No oil changes, no belts, highly reduced care and feeding of mechanical brakes (if you do it right 90% of your braking uses a regenerative process that puts energy back into the system, you don;t touch the mechanical brakes hardly at all).
2) impact on the environment, since I live in a region of a country that produces electricity with a somewhat limited impact on the environment. Comparatively speaking. No burning of fossil fuels at least, in terms of my car itself and the production of electricity (mostly hydro dams which I realize do in fact impact the environment but probably not nearly as much as say a coal plant)

If any of you ever have the means to go electric, I sincerely hope you at least give it good consideration.[/QUOTE]

Oh, you have no idea how I would like do go all electric but this stupid country of mine imposes extra tax if you want anything else than gas. Even if you want lpg in your car you have to pay extra.

[Camacha]

[quote name='justidutch']I drive an electric vehicle, the Mitsubishi I-Miev. Had it for 13 months now, and I love it. The up-front cost is more, but if you hang on to it and drive it for about 6 years you start 'making money' on it, in terms of the difference of price between gas and electricity. Besides not having to pay for gas, the two big things I love about it are:
1) maintenance, there is basically none. No oil changes, no belts, highly reduced care and feeding of mechanical brakes (if you do it right 90% of your braking uses a regenerative process that puts energy back into the system, you don;t touch the mechanical brakes hardly at all).
2) impact on the environment, since I live in a region of a country that produces electricity with a somewhat limited impact on the environment. Comparatively speaking. No burning of fossil fuels at least, in terms of my car itself and the production of electricity (mostly hydro dams which I realize do in fact impact the environment but probably not nearly as much as say a coal plant)

If any of you ever have the means to go electric, I sincerely hope you at least give it good consideration.[/QUOTE]

Electric cars still have a lot of problems to fix.

-They lose value at a much faster rate than traditional cars, not in small part because of battery wear. Those wear out in just a few years. Some manufacturers solve this by renting out the batteries, but it is a problem nonetheless. Not a lot of fun in a vehicle that is more expensive to start with.
- Another overlooked problem is that the production of electric cars causes a lot of (additional) pollution too. Added to that is that the resources needed to make batteries are coming from a select number of countries. This will create new 'oil states' in battery form very quickly.
- Then there is the issue of range. If you need to drive more than the limited range of a vehicle, you need to take your sweet time. Edited November 18, 2015 by Camacha

[Brethern]

Rule of thumb is that you never buy an american made care older than five years. But for foreign cars it's ok.

Toyotas are tough vehicles, regular maintence and they last nearly forever.

The only thing about them is that they use recycled metal in the frames so after so many years, you're going to need major frame work.

[Camacha]

[quote name='Brethern']The only thing about them is that they use recycled metal in the frames so after so many years, you're going to need major frame work.[/QUOTE]

Metal is a material that does not degrade with reuse. As long as you monitor your constituents and alloy, it will be as good every time you melt it down. Therefore, rusting will not be caused by reuse. Also, pretty much all and every piece of metal will have scrap/recycled material in it :) Edited November 18, 2015 by Camacha

[Bill Phil]

My father said that the Big Three automakers have been making some rather sloppy cars. Idk about that, but according to some the Big 3 can only make good profits on large vehicles, which does explain why trucks are so heavily marketed.

In my experience, older american cars have been okay, but they're wearing down now. Japanese automakers are good, certainly. Some of the cars they make are great. But the same goes for all automakers... or at least most of them.

Anyhow, if I had to choose a new car, it'd be a Jetta.

[Camacha]

[quote name='Bill Phil']In my experience, older american cars have been okay, but they're wearing down now. Japanese automakers are good, certainly. Some of the cars they make are great. But the same goes for all automakers... or at least most of them.[/QUOTE]

I guess this is about statistics, which show that Japanese cars break down the least.

[Streetwind]

[quote name='Camacha']Electric cars still has a lot of problems to fix.

- They lose value at a much faster rate than traditional cars, not in small part because of battery wear. Those wear out in just a few years. Some manufacturers solve this by renting out the batteries, but it is a problem nonetheless. Not a lot of fun in a vehicle that is more expensive to start with.
- Another overlooked problem is that the production of electric cars causes a lot of (additional) pollution too. Added to that is that the resources needed to make batteries are coming from a select number of countries. This will create new 'oil states' in battery form very quickly.
- Then there is the issue of range. If you need to drive more than the limited range of a vehicle, you need to take your sweet time.[/QUOTE]

You'd be surprised - those points are approaching "non-issue" today.

[URL="http://www.pluginamerica.org/surveys/batteries/tesla-roadster/PIA-Roadster-Battery-Study.pdf"]Here's a study[/URL] outlining how the average Tesla Roadster (a car manufactured from 2008 to 2012) loses less than 1% battery life per 10,000 km driven, or about 15% over 160,000 km. There are people in this world who wouldn't believe that electric cars can rack up such a mileage and and still keep going just fine with most of its range left, but a car built seven years ago is perfectly capable of the feat. Today's cars are doing [I]better[/I] than that. The key element is using lithium ion batteries with proper onboard temperature management; an EV with older battery tech won't make it (which is where the widespread belief of poor battery lifetime comes from in the first place).

The high initial buy price is also offset by a lower average running cost. [URL="http://www.plugincars.com/total-cost-ownership-cheaper-electric-cars-study-proves-127503.html"]This study from 2013[/URL] found electric cars perfectly competitive in a total cost of ownership analysis.

Along with that, resale values for electric vehicles are better today than they ever were. Tesla obviously is king here due to its cult following and limited supply (the Model S has the lowest year-over-year value loss, percentage wise, of any car in its price range [I]in the entire world[/I] right now), but other cars are also improving, especially those which aren't just so-called "compliance cars" (junk on wheels that automakers put out to comply with fleet emission regulations). The BMW i3 and the Nissan Leaf for example are both doing well for themselves.

The elevated production pollution through battery manufacture is more than easily offset by the high lifecycle emission savings of modern EVs - even when assuming that 100% of the electricity is produced from nonrenewable sources. As grids slowly move towards greater shares of renewable sources, the advantage of electric vehicles is only growing. One relevant study among many is [URL="http://de.slideshare.net/FrdricLambert1/cleaner-cars-from-cradle-to-grave-full-report"]here[/URL].

Then, you need to account for the fact that EVs are driven and "refueled" differently than conventional cars. In a conventional car, you drive until the tank is empty, then refuel. In an EV, you drive whatever you need each day, and then plug it in once you get home, meaning every single day you start with the maximum range available to you. As such, you don't need as much range in the first place.

Of course, the one thing that EVs (apart from the expensive Teslas and their supercharger network) cannot really do yet is viable long distance driving, which is where high range is actually required. However, energy density of lithium ion batteries has increased by >5% year over year for the past 20 years, with enough improvements in the pipeline to keep this up for at least another 10 years into the future... that's about two thirds additional energy storage capacity in the same battery weight over those ten years. Some would call this a conservative estimate and predict a flat doubling of energy density over the same timeframe. Considering that modern EVs can already get up to 400 km range today, and most conventional cars are built for about 700 km, that means that ten years down the road, the range of electric vehicles will match or exceed that of conventional cars... even when only the conservative estimate comes true. Fast charging technology has also improved tremendously over the last five years, to the point where the limitation is starting to lie in getting thick enough power lines from the grid to the charging station, and not in the batteries. You can already recharge 300 km range in under 30 minutes with a Tesla Supercharger today. Edited November 18, 2015 by Streetwind

[Redjoker]

[quote name='Mighty1']Oh, you have no idea how I would like do go all electric but this stupid country of mine imposes extra tax if you want anything else than gas. Even if you want lpg in your car you have to pay extra.[/QUOTE]

In the US, the tax on gas is a usage tax for the roads and provides the main source of money for road repairs and construction. There is an extra tax for electric and alternative fuel vehicles because you don't buy gas and pay the tax that supports the roads you drive on.

[MK3424]

[quote name='Darnok']Models made in Japan are good quality, models made in factories located outside of Japan aren't.[/QUOTE]

Not really: Honda cars who are made in the US are at the same level of quality as the ones made in Japan; it doesn't matter from where the cars come from, it's design and execution that counts.

[Camacha]

[quote name='Streetwind'][URL="http://www.pluginamerica.org/surveys/batteries/tesla-roadster/PIA-Roadster-Battery-Study.pdf"]Here's a study[/URL] outlining how the average Tesla Roadster (a car manufactured from 2008 to 2012) loses less than 1% battery life per 10,000 km driven, or about 15% over 160,000 km. There are people in this world who wouldn't believe that electric cars can rack up such a mileage and and still keep going just fine with most of its range left, but a car built seven years ago is perfectly capable of the feat. Today's cars are doing [I]better[/I] than that. The key element is using lithium ion batteries; an EV with older battery tech won't make it (which is where the widespread belief of poor battery lifetime comes from in the first place).[/quote]

Before I start: do not get me wrong, I think electric cars are the future in a number of different ways. The technology just is a long way from being as good as conventional cars.

Battery degradation in modern type batteries is as much about age (and temperature) as power cycles/miles. If we look a little more realistically at the report we see statements like these:

[quote]A considerable number of owners reported that some or all of their battery pack had been replaced: 23 out of 122, or 18.9%.[/quote]

It shows the technology is not really ready for prime time yet. Those replacement numbers, even if they are not all because of battery issues, are terribly high. It also does little to mitigate the point that electric cars generally lose value much more quickly than conventional cars. Even if they are cheaper to drive, it is not really a sound investment. The fact that the technology is still developing quickly means the cars will continue to lose value at an accelerated rate for the foreseeable future, as newer and significantly better models keep appearing every year.

Also remember that most cars have irreplaceable batteries. Tesla's are the exception, but most cars have batteries that are welded inside compartments in the floor or some similar arrangement. This means that if the battery goes, your car goes. It is scrap metal after that and exactly the reason recent early hybrids and electric cars were written off so terribly fast.

[quote]The elevated production pollution through battery manufacture is more than easily offset by the high lifecycle emission savings of modern EVs - even when assuming that 100% of the electricity is produced from nonrenewable sources.[/quote]
How would you imagine that? If you take increased production pollution and grid losses, your car and its charge has polluted a lot before it even drives off. Most countries still burn fossil fuels for the vast majority of their energy, meaning most electric cars run on coal and gas and have conversion and grid losses added to their power consumption.

[quote]Then, you need to account for the fact that EVs are driven and "refueled" differently than conventional cars. In a conventional car, you drive until the tank is empty, then refuel. In an EV, you drive whatever you need each day, and then plug it in once you get home, meaning every single day you start with the maximum range available to you. As such, you don't need as much range in the first place.

Of course, the one thing that EVs (apart from the expensive Teslas and their supercharger network) cannot really do yet is viable long distance driving, which is where high range is actually required. However, energy density of lithium ion batteries has increased by >5% year over year for the past 20 years, with enough improvements in the pipeline to keep this up for at least another 10 years into the future... that's about two thirds additional energy storage capacity in the same battery weight over those ten years. Some would call this a conservative estimate and predict a flat doubling of energy density over the same timeframe. Considering that modern EVs can already get up to 400 km range today, that means that ten years down the road, the range of electric vehicles will match or exceed that of conventional cars... even when only the conservative estimate comes true.[/QUOTE]

Even if electric cars match conventional ranges they are not as useful by a long shot, because they take forever to charge. That is not an issue if you zoom around a city, but if you do some serious driving, a day worth of driving now turns into a week long expedition with an electric vehicle. As it stands, you still need to rent a conventional vehicle if you go on longer trips, which makes it rather a hassle.

I have always said, and still stand by that statement - electric cars will only catch on if they are made at least as easy as conventional cars. Near instant charging and a considerable range are requisite. Them being cheap can be a huge plus, though we should remember that they will probably quickly become more taxed and expensive if they become more widely adopted. Edited November 18, 2015 by Camacha

[Bill Phil]

Electric cars are just as good, performance-wise. Cost-wise, they're prohibitively expensive.

[Camacha]

[quote name='Bill Phil']Electric cars are just as good, performance-wise.[/QUOTE]

Define [I]performance[/I]. Power and acceleration wise? Probably. Torque is amazing in electric motors. Range wise? Not a chance.