Yakuzi Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Looking forward to the new forums, though a bit sad there won't be any blogs anymore :( @ Mods, would it be possible to add a voting system (positive only perhaps) for individual posts in the "Suggestions and Development" subforum? That way useful posts should be easier to identify by users and Squad and won't be buried quite as quickly... this might also be handy in the "Gameplay Questions" section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
severedsolo Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 [quote name='5thHorseman'] It could be argued that this will HELP new people. I still answer questions where the person thinks that cranking over 45 degrees at 10km is the way to launch because that's what it said in a post somewhere.[/QUOTE] It will certainly help me. The number of times I have gone into Spacecraft exchange looking for a craft file (for one thing or another) and found stuff that was built so long ago that it's no good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rezolution Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Wow, page, what, 46? Guess I'm a bit late to the party on this one. Ah, well, here are some more thoughts anyway: I'm sure there are reasons for this move beyond what any of us truly know, outside of the developers and moderators themselves, so I am trying to approach this issue with an appropriate amount of deference to those in charge. With that said, I suppose I didn't realize that the roleplaying was such an issue. Personally, I was a member of a company (and perhaps still am for now). I actually really enjoyed that membership because it challenged me to build ships and think about Kerbal in ways that would never have occurred to me by myself. My building acumen improved exponentially because of the unique challenges inherent in working and competing with others who shared and provided specific goals. Perhaps some took it too far, I suppose (I don't have any personal experience with that). However, this does make me ask, where is the line drawn with roleplaying? I guess I just saw it as another exercise in imagination, which is really what this whole game is all about. Honestly, isn't there a little bit of roleplaying in the challenges thread, as well? How many challenges present you with a fictitious mission or background story that requires you, as a designer, to put yourself in a certain role in order to achieve that goal? It all takes imagination. Just my thoughts. I'm not speaking about the drama aspects of the decision, so please keep that in mind. I usually keep to myself enough that I'm oblivious to any of that occurring (at least as much as I can). However, I just hope that this will not stifle fun and interesting designs in any meaningful way and will still allow the players to form communities centered on shared goals. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrofox Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 To me it's page 10, but I have modified my settings a bit for faster* navigation. Oh well, I hope stuff will go according to plan - let's not have another forum derp... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sampa Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Would I be right to expect that locked threads are not being ported over to the new forum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KasperVld Posted November 24, 2015 Author Share Posted November 24, 2015 [quote name='Po0ka']I have a concern about the look of the new forum, it might sound like nothing but would it be possible to have "square" avatars? I wouldn't like to sacrifice my avatar's details just to have a supposed "modern" look, if it's a circle, it would use the same space as a square, just with lost details. But as it's still in development i doubt the apparence is final, i just wanted to express my opinion. (If it was already brought up by someone then i'm sorry, i didn't want to read [I]all[/I] these pages)[/QUOTE] Yes, I'll enable Square avatars (in fact, since taking that screenshot they've also been enabled on the test forum). [quote name='nsgallup']Existing threads aren't getting deleted are they?[/QUOTE] No. [quote name='Yakuzi']Looking forward to the new forums, though a bit sad there won't be any blogs anymore :( @ Mods, would it be possible to add a voting system (positive only perhaps) for individual posts in the "Suggestions and Development" subforum? That way useful posts should be easier to identify by users and Squad and won't be buried quite as quickly... this might also be handy in the "Gameplay Questions" section.[/QUOTE] The lack of polls in suggestions and development were removed because they gave a very skewed picture: - User A suggests a feature, and adds a poll: "should this be added to the game?" - Users B and C come along, are not interested in the topic because the suggestion doesn't speak to them and don't even open it - User D comes along, is interested in the topic, opens it and votes yes on the poll Now this is a bit extreme but essentially we used to have a lot of polls there with this exact same pattern: a very large majority of voters supported the feature mentioned while in reality many more users would most likely not think it's a good or necessary addition to the game. The poll results were quite meaningless but were used to argue that a large portion of the playerbase would support the feature being added to the game. We actually read a lot of the suggestions and discussions in that forum, though we don't usually reply to them :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cantab Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 [quote name='Rezolution']However, this does make me ask, where is the line drawn with roleplaying?[/QUOTE]Writing the words or actions of a character or organisation that is not you, and that is interacting with other people's characters - that's what's considered "roleplaying". As mentioned, it's banned on the KSP forums because many years ago some people caused trouble with it. Whether that ban is 'right' or 'wrong' is off-topic for this thread. Mission reports, fanfics, and so on are not roleplaying because they do not involved multiple authors. Most spacecraft exchange stuff, and even arguably many rocket builder threads, are not roleplaying because people are posting essentially as themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_name Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 But I still can't understand what the problem with roleplaying is/was :huh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Dilsby Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 [quote name='cantab']Mission reports, fanfics, and so on are not roleplaying because they do not involved multiple authors. Most spacecraft exchange stuff, and even arguably many rocket builder threads, are not roleplaying because people are posting essentially as themselves.[/QUOTE] Correct, and that's a really important distinction: playing a role is not the same as roleplaying. For the sake of harmony it's important that we deal with each other as the real human beings we are: there's enough natural conflict on that level that we don't need to bring in any contrived drama :) But the fact that we have to split a hair to differentiate the two is why I'm a bit worked up about a potential deletion of Rocket Builders. People got too emotionally involved with roleplaying, so it has to go. Well, I have readers who sometimes get... a little involved with my stories. This is a high compliment for an author! And yeah, I'd expect that if any rules got broken on my thread, I or the other participants would get an infraction or potentially have posts deleted. I would [I]not [/I]expect posts (or entire threads) to be allowed to stand for a time, thus implying that those posts were OK, but then have the rules change [I]ex post facto. [/I] It's great that KasperVid said they'd consider archiving the RB threads--I hope they do. I also hope that I never have to worry about my posts or those of my readers being deleted after the fact. [COLOR="silver"][SIZE=1]- - - Updated - - -[/SIZE][/COLOR] [quote name='KasperVld']No.[/QUOTE] Thank you! I really appreciate that you and the rest of the staff (1) publicize your thoughts before executing an action and (2) take the time to listen to our subsequent rantings. This is as good a Forum as KSP is a game, and I know it will continue to be so regardless of what software runs it :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sampa Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 KasperVld, what about locked threads? Will they survive the migration? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCanadianVendingMachine Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 [quote name='A_name']But I still can't understand what the problem with roleplaying is/was :huh:[/QUOTE] User A starts roleplaying as a nice guy. User B starts roleplaying as a really rude person. User B Insults User A, claims it only Roleplay User A requests User B to be infracted. User B gets infracted. User B claims they were only roleplaying. Moderators ban roleplaying, because slippery slope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegeas Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 [quote name='KasperVld']in particular the 'thou shallt not roleplay' rule[/QUOTE] You're breaking my immersion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mythbusters844 Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Will the option to hide rep still be available with the update? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 [quote name='mythbusters844']Will the option to hide rep still be available with the update?[/QUOTE] Why [I]do[/I] people hide rep? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rezolution Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 (edited) [quote name='cantab']Writing the words or actions of a character or organisation that is not you, and that is interacting with other people's characters - that's what's considered "roleplaying". As mentioned, it's banned on the KSP forums because many years ago some people caused trouble with it. Whether that ban is 'right' or 'wrong' is off-topic for this thread.[/QUOTE] Roger that, thanks for the clarification. I suppose technically what I was doing wasn't considered roleplaying then (being a part of a fictional company and only representing myself as myself). However, I'll have to disagree with the part about that discussion being off topic, considering that role playing drama is being offered as one the reasons for the removal of a popular thread (which is why a few folks are upset and offering their opinions). At any rate, since being a part of a community organization, by itself, isn't considered roleplaying, should that be banned as well? Is concerted activity frowned upon, completely? Now, anecdotal evidence should general be ignored, and, considering I'm an N of 1, you would probably be well served to just pay this next sentence no mind. However, to offer up a personal example, I'm really only asking for clarification because I had such a positive experience with the rocket builders forum back when I first started that I would be disappointed to see that support removed entirely. Either way, I'll go with the changes in whatever form they take. At the end of the day, it's still a great game. Cheers. Edited November 25, 2015 by Rezolution Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacetraindriver Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Wait... You mean WT Forum format?!?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yakuzi Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 [quote name='KasperVld'] The lack of polls in suggestions and development were removed because they gave a very skewed picture: - User A suggests a feature, and adds a poll: "should this be added to the game?" - Users B and C come along, are not interested in the topic because the suggestion doesn't speak to them and don't even open it - User D comes along, is interested in the topic, opens it and votes yes on the poll Now this is a bit extreme but essentially we used to have a lot of polls there with this exact same pattern: a very large majority of voters supported the feature mentioned while in reality many more users would most likely not think it's a good or necessary addition to the game. The poll results were quite meaningless but were used to argue that a large portion of the playerbase would support the feature being added to the game. We actually read a lot of the suggestions and discussions in that forum, though we don't usually reply to them :)[/QUOTE] Thanks for your reply Kasper, it's good to know the Suggestions and Development forum is being read by the mods and devs :) What I meant, however, was not a poll-like system but something like a +1 option for individual posts ([s]somewhat like reddit's upvote system[/s]... I did not say this on these forums for the record, please holster your pitchforks), for example: -User A posts a decent suggestion, get's 12 upvotes -User B uses builds upon initial suggestion, get's 30 upvotes -User C proposes dubious alternative, get's 2 upvotes -User R* makes a snarky remark, get's 115 upvotes If you could then have an option to sort the posts in a thread by most upvotes, you should be able to filter out quality (and regex's*) posts quite quickly. Not sure if it's possible, but it might be handy. [SIZE=1]* [COLOR="#A9A9A9"]You were the first to come to mind, who'd have guessed?[/COLOR][/SIZE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyAthena Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 (edited) [quote name='KasperVld']Rocket Builders is a place that actually breaks our community rules constantly, in particular the 'thou shallt not roleplay' rule. You're still welcome to offer the craft you make, or even take requests in the Spacecraft Exchange forum though, the only thing that will change is the 'company' part of it, with the employee/director/ceo roles and inter-company drama that comes with it.[/QUOTE] I've never understood the "Thou Shalt not roleplay" rule. In a game like KSP where roleplaying is nearly essential, and bringing that fun little tid bit to the forums for those who want it and having its own little corner doesn't hurt anyone, and makes the forums more friendly and open to everyone. Slapping peoples hands with it is like saying "shame on you for liking our game". Loved the idea of "companies" who will make a ship for you, and people who have a passion to do that, while role playing it. Drama aside doesn't matter where you are in life, or what you're doing, role playing or not, drama is gonna happen. If you don't like drama, go live in the woods in a box. Only way to stop it. [quote name='TheCanadianVendingMachine']User A starts roleplaying as a nice guy. User B starts roleplaying as a really rude person. User B Insults User A, claims it only Roleplay User A requests User B to be infracted. User B gets infracted. User B claims they were only roleplaying. Moderators ban roleplaying, because slippery slope[/QUOTE] There's a difference between role playing a rude person, and straight out insulting the role player. If a person doesn't like your role playesque rudeness, than you as a person should stop, or switch personalities for your character, or... just stop role playing with that person. If it does reach those heights, than the moderator has every right to ban the rude person, role playing or not, seeing as a its a very real lack of respect from the real person for continuing when the other person doesn't like it. Which is a real non role play rule infraction. It's not difficult, or a slippery slope in anyway. Edited November 25, 2015 by LadyAthena Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 [quote name='LadyAthena']I've never understood the "Thou Shalt not roleplay" rule. In a game like KSP where roleplaying is nearly essential, and bringing that fun little tid bit to the forums for those who want it and having its own little corner doesn't hurt anyone, and makes the forums more friendly and open to everyone. Slapping peoples hands with it is like saying "shame on you for liking our game". Loved the idea of "companies" who will make a ship for you, and people who have a passion to do that, while role playing it. Drama aside doesn't matter where you are in life, or what you're doing, role playing or not, drama is gonna happen. If you don't like drama, go live in the woods in a box. Only way to stop it.[/QUOTE] Roleplaying is hard to moderate. Sometimes you can't know for sure if the user is posting as the character they're roleplaying or if they're posting it as themselves. Things that happen in roleplay can get personal for some, and that creates even more trouble. It's not saying "shame on you for liking our game", roleplaying is not essential when it comes to KSP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0111narwhalz Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 One would think that moderators could simply be unyielding, and then there's no slope upon which to slip. If a roleplayer commits a bannable offence, then he/she gets banned. If a non-roleplayer commits a bannable offence, than he/she gets banned. Same goes for less-than-bannable offences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Iron Crown Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 I have to observe that most of the people saying "What's wrong with a little roleplay?" were not around when we had a roleplay subforum. I was not a moderator then, but I can imagine what sorts of headaches it caused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_name Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 [quote name='TheCanadianVendingMachine']User A starts roleplaying as a nice guy. User B starts roleplaying as a really rude person. User B Insults User A, claims it only Roleplay User A requests User B to be infracted. User B gets infracted. User B claims they were only roleplaying. Moderators ban roleplaying, because slippery slope[/QUOTE] Ooooh I see. This is why we can't have nice things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PineCone Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 I'm not sure what I think about the upgrade. [COLOR=transparent]Just kidding. I don't like it. Closing down the Rocket Builders, removing rep bars, deleting the blogs, the new look..... Why would anyone do that? I liked the rep bars. I liked the Rocket Builders. And frankly, the new look is terrible.[/COLOR] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueCanary Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 [quote name='PineCone'][COLOR=transparent]removing rep bars[/COLOR][/QUOTE] Wait, whaaaat? I thought they were staying? From the OP: [QUOTE] [LIST] [*]Almost all data will be preserved including reputation, custom user titles and signatures. [/LIST] [/QUOTE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PineCone Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 They're removing the rep bars, not the rep itself. There aren't going to be any bars anymore, just a green circle that shows the rank when you mouse over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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