Forum Migration Nov 27th!

[Yemo]

[quote name='Kuzzter']This seems absolutely nuts. I never understood the whole RP aspect of Rocket Builders, I thought it was silly-and yes, I know, this is coming from a guy who writes kerbal fanfic in Powerpoint. I could totally see locking those threads forever and coming down hard on any new instance of roleplaying. But people created content in that forum for themselves and for others, and they did so with the expectation that it would be treated like any other content. A lot of people in Rocket Builders even managed to post that content without violating any Community Guidelines or Forum Rules at all.

So, now we're going to remove ALL of it--all those ships, all the images, all the effort people put in to making a richer KSP experience for themselves and their fellow users--but we're going to make darn sure we keep "Offend the User Above You!", "Things That Made You Facepalm!", and who knows how many other ill-concieved and locked threads--not to mention [I]all [/I]1267 pages (and counting!) of important "Number Wars" history!

I don't get it. I'm already getting questions from readers wondering if MY content is going to be safe. I'm told it will be, but who knows? Maybe next time around someone decides that user-created fiction is a bad thing, and everything I've worked on and all the interactions I've had with my readers just disappears.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='passinglurker']@yemo: try following the embeded imgur drama.

btw does anyone know where exactly imgur said they were gonna depreciate their old album embeds? you know the ones that still work just fine on other sites like kerbal stuff over 6 month after ksp forums switched without warning or feedback? this "future proof" argument is beginning to spring some leaks... :/[/QUOTE]

It feels like squad is going from indie to corporate.
Feature list extension over balancing/bug fixing (from 0.90 to 1.0.4, and I hoped that 1.0.5 would be the turn around with all those fixes).
Strict rule enforcement and community streamlining over (sometimes chaotic and not always pleasant) creativity.
And worst of all, disregard of player/user interests (history of posts/discussions, notice time, forum layout wasting vertical space, post editor limitations and so on...).

[passinglurker]

[quote name='Yemo']It feels like squad is going from indie to corporate.
Feature list extension over balancing/bug fixing (from 0.90 to 1.0.4, and I hoped that 1.0.5 would be the turn around with all those fixes).
Strict rule enforcement and community streamlining over (sometimes chaotic and not always pleasant) creativity.
And worst of all, disregard of player/user interests (history of posts/discussions, notice time, forum layout wasting vertical space, post editor limitations and so on...).[/QUOTE]

less customization means fewer bugs and easier maintenance, less roleplay/creativity means less drama/emotions in general, "future proof" (hahaha) album embeds means you don't have to fix something down the line. everything points to cutting workload on the forum.

[Yemo]

[quote name='passinglurker']less customization means fewer bugs and easier maintenance, less roleplay/creativity means less drama/emotions in general, "future proof" (hahaha) album embeds means you don't have to fix something down the line. everything points to cutting workload on the forum.[/QUOTE]

Yep, streamlining non-revenue inducing stuff...

edit: Preparation for those console ports? :sealed: Edited November 21, 2015 by Yemo

[TMS]

Can we have a Curse forum?

(lol)

[Greenfire32]

[quote name='SpaceNomad']Moreover, an advance notice of one week (including only [B]one[/B] [B]weekend[/B]) seems extremely short. If people are working during the week and have other things to do on this weekend (or are on vacation) they have no chance to save their work.[/QUOTE]

Not only that, but it's a week that contains both Thanksgiving and Black Friday. Odds are most people haven't even seen the news about this yet, or literally won't have the time to react accordingly.

[OhioBob]

Will this change also fix the Wikipedia?

[Red Iron Crown]

[quote name='OhioBob']Will this change also fix the Wikipedia?[/QUOTE]
AFAIK the wiki is already fixed, is there some functionality that is not working?

[Rosco P. Coltrane]

[quote name='RocketPilot573']This update seems pretty reasonable. Though I was looking at their forums and my only concern is that the page doesn't appear to use the entire window, if you know what I mean. A lot of other forums are like that for some reason and it just feels claustrophobic to me. I know this sounds silly but is there a setting for that or something? (sorry if this was answered already in case I missed something)

[url]https://i.imgur.com/wCB2giK.png[/url]

[url]https://i.imgur.com/sBcEEJs.png[/url][/QUOTE]

I know other forums with IPS that have a more 16:9'ish design (and smaller visual elements as well, so you can fit more on screen). I don't know if it's user-customizable, thou. Whatever the case I hope the either make it widescreen for all, or allow users to set it up. This is not 2003 people, our widescreen monitors have been "normalscreen" monitors for a while now, and for a reason too.

[*Aqua*]

You can't make text that wide or people will have serious problems reading it. That's why newspaper texts usually have narrow columns. They are far easier to grasp for our eyes and brain.

[Starhawk]

[quote name='KasperVld']Given all the reactions here, I'll look to see if we can't temporarily keep the Rocket Builders forum available as an (invisible) archive with a link posting in the Spacecraft Exchange to soften the change a bit - but this is dependent on such functionality being available.[/QUOTE]

Thank you for that, Kasper. I'm not sure it will be quite sufficient to mollify those who are upset about losing content which they created.

I don't usually weigh in on these topics, but in this case I will put in my two funds worth.

I can understand that there are issues for the forums involving the RP aspects of that subforum. And I fully support easing the workload for our volunteer moderators.

It seems to me that a case has been made for closing RB and many have said that they would accept having it closed but still accessible.

I haven't seen and can't think of an argument against this. Certainly storage space is not a significant issue.

Is there some other reason that this would not be a viable option?

Happy landings!

[Hotaru]

[quote name='KasperVld']Given all the reactions here, I'll look to see if we can't temporarily keep the Rocket Builders forum available as an (invisible) archive with a link posting in the Spacecraft Exchange to soften the change a bit - but this is dependent on such functionality being available.[/QUOTE]


Glad to hear this, although I still wonder why such a move needs to be temporary. I still say just keeping RB permanently available as a locked archive wouldn't hurt anybody, and would potentially save you guys a lot of trouble.

[Endersmens]

Yet another question about transferring the Arab threads to Spacecraft Exchange. Can we Rebrand the "employees" as just "craft contributors"? I would still like to have a group who release craft together. Would just having them as contributors be considered RP? Or could I just copy my company page and take out everything about "hiring, employees" and stuff like that?

[Yemo]

[quote name='*Aqua*']You can't make text that wide or people will have serious problems reading it. That's why newspaper texts usually have narrow columns. They are far easier to grasp for our eyes and brain.[/QUOTE]

Everyone is free to resize their browser window to a width that suits them, no one is forced to have it full screen. Seriously give it a try with this very page. The text adjusts automatically. No one is forcing users at the moment to use the full width of their screen, but the new forum forces everyone not to use the full width of their screen...

[Randazzo]

I imagine Squad has [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0GFRcFm-aY"]this playing in the background[/URL] every time a change is announced.

Breaking all the links is certainly a bad idea though. Just imagine somebody trying to poke around the modding links thread and none of the links work (though functionally it might be the same as now since people don't seem to look there anyway).

[Yemo]

[quote name='Hotaru']Glad to hear this, although I still wonder why such a move needs to be temporary. I still say just keeping RB permanently available as a locked archive wouldn't hurt anybody, and would potentially save you guys a lot of trouble.[/QUOTE]

This, at least.

[Ruedii]

The best solution for the thou shall not role-play rule is to put make a specific thread for it. This is what be done at most forum's I've been on that have had problems with excessive role-playing cluttering up threads.

This utilizes the classic solution of isolating a problem you can't eliminate.

You may want to make two threads, one for creative fan works (single party role-playing) and one for group works (would be a subcategory of one of the goof-off / social sections.) Edited November 21, 2015 by Ruedii
add moar detail.

[Randazzo]

[quote name='Ruedii']You may want to make two threads, one for creative fan works (single party role-playing) and one for group works (would be a subcategory of one of the goof-off / social sections.)[/QUOTE]

Writing a story and role-playing are not the same thing. If you're collaborating with others to write a story, it's still not even remotely close. Working the story out together as [I]authors[/I] is not assuming the roles of the characters. WRITING a play is not the same as ACTING in a play.

This comparison has always irritated me to no end.

[DuoDex]

[quote name='Hotaru']Glad to hear this, although I still wonder why such a move needs to be temporary. I still say just keeping RB permanently available as a locked archive wouldn't hurt anybody, and would potentially save you guys a lot of trouble.[/QUOTE]

As I [I]think[/I] Kasper has said before in this thread (don't quote me on this), there will be a copy of the old forums kept but not publicly available and used as reference indefinitely, so I think that "temporary" might become "permanent" if it doesn't cause any trouble :). Disregard if he hasn't said that, but I'm [I]fairly[/I] sure he has.

[Bizz Keryear]

[quote name='Rosco P. Coltrane']I know other forums with IPS that have a more 16:9'ish design (and smaller visual elements as well, so you can fit more on screen). I don't know if it's user-customizable, thou. Whatever the case I hope the either make it widescreen for all, or allow users to set it up. This is not 2003 people, our widescreen monitors have been "normalscreen" monitors for a while now, and for a reason too.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='*Aqua*']You can't make text that wide or people will have serious problems reading it. That's why newspaper texts usually have narrow columns. They are far easier to grasp for our eyes and brain.[/QUOTE]

Really seems like KSP is a sinking ship. It surely has lost my support now. (bought in total a dozend copies of it)

And when I then visit the forums .... which will be much less since due to less editing options the mod develop threads will migrate to somewhere else ... it seems to be Style bot time to make it wide as I did for Steam forums... (made screenshoots .... but figured nobody would interested anyway so I didn't even uploaded them)

Edit : the mod editing this mod and deleting a quote a deleted post made me possible look like a douche. One more sign that this community is rapid going down hill- Edited November 21, 2015 by Bizz Keryear
Removed quote of deleted post.

[Spearka]

[quote name='KasperVld']Rocket Builders is a place that actually breaks our community rules constantly, in particular the 'thou shallt not roleplay' rule. You're still welcome to offer the craft you make, or even take requests in the Spacecraft Exchange forum though, the only thing that will change is the 'company' part of it, with the employee/director/ceo roles and inter-company drama that comes with it.[/QUOTE]

"ahem"

I appreciate this concern. The rule against roleplay came up after the old Roleplay thread on KSP was closed because it was rampant and uncontrolled with users frequently making up too many ridiculous scenarios resulting in heated arguments that resulted in entire threads closing. The Roleplay was restarted then closed because the effects continued. I know this because I was there to witness it all and the attempted revival in a seperate website which soon fell.

But now with the closure of RB I must ask "Is this truly the right way to fix this?". Kerbal Space Program is a perfect game for creating your own stories: you can found colonies, expand your influence and with mods like BDArmoury you can make military vehicles too; you can even find these stories in the Fan Works thread and in Youtube videos and series like Kethane Station, World War K, Spiritwolf. All products of KSP's potential; while roleplaying and storymaking are different the former definitely builds better versions of the latter by building an expanded universe to which multiple people can contribute, Kethane Station is already a product of this!

I even play Kerbal Space Program BECAUSE I can make my own story; the original Roleplay Thread is probably what made me keep playing as I could make things that actually bore some legitimacy to a greater cause. To deny players a roleplaying ability can, and will result in a loss of potential and existing players.

Once again, I still understand why this decision was made as roleplaying leads to stuff lots of people do not agree with but please, I urge you...

[size=11]There must be a better solution[/size] Edited November 21, 2015 by Spearka

[cantab]

[quote name='Yemo']Everyone is free to resize their browser window to a width that suits them, no one is forced to have it full screen. Seriously give it a try with this very page. The text adjusts automatically. No one is forcing users at the moment to use the full width of their screen, but the new forum forces everyone not to use the full width of their screen...[/QUOTE]People do out of habit maximise their window though, and then complain that it's hard to read stuff. We might also have other tabs open that do make good use of the width. So I am in favour of not allowing the text to be over-wide. With "responsive design" the other space might be used for navigation.

[Guest]

Looking forwards to the update!

[AeroArchonite_]

[SIZE=5][COLOR=#333333]I made a better solution!

[/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=5][COLOR=#333333]What we need is a [/COLOR][/SIZE][COLOR=#ff0000][SIZE=5][U][I][B]POLL![/B][/I][/U]
[/SIZE][/COLOR]
[SIZE=5][COLOR=#333333]I made a poll right here:[/COLOR][/SIZE][URL]http://strawpoll.me/6064062/r[/URL]

[COLOR=#333333]Only one vote so far, which was me.[/COLOR]

[Frozen_Heart]

What will the new rules on "Companies" be on the new spacecraft exchange? Is only 1 person allowed to contribute per thread like current 1 kerbal craft showcases? Or are people still allowed to group up to post shared craft?

[Mad Rocket Scientist]

Okay, so I've read through this entire thread, and I see that there's a lot of opinions, so I'll add mine:
First of all, I hardly used the RB forum. I really can't empathize with KMC, zokesia, R-SUV, and all of the "Glory days" companies. I understand that some companies have turned into role-playing and from there into arguments. However, I feel that having "employees" and "companies" does NOT mean role-playing, or, at the least, not enough role-playing that it creates arguments.
My company (AMRSD) had employees, partnerships, and requests, and (you'll have to trust me on this) I've never received an infraction for it, or a warning. I'm not well-informed enough to say whether rule-breaking is rampant on some threads or not, but I do know that some companies, representing hundreds of hours of work, in their replies alone, don't appear to break the rules to me. My company never had much going on, so it can transfer over to the SCE fairly easily without much loss.
However, I do feel that with some companies, especially ones without active founders, will really lose a lot.
Also, my company will stay almost the same, minus employees, etc, in the SCE, and I imagine that many other companies will do the same thing. If my company is that kind that is the problem, then pushing them into the SCE won't help.

And finally, I want to say that I don't know much about the moderator's decision, and there may be factors I left out. RBs may just be a source of net unhappiness, but from what I've heard, it isn't, and it definitely isn't for me.