Sigma Dimensions

[Norcalplanner]

So I had a blast with a 3x game using Sigma Dimensions, so now I've stepped up to a 6.4x game.  Atmosphere is 1.3 (91 km) and terrain is 0.32 (mountains twice as high as normal) with 2x rotation time (which is still a little fast - may change it to 3x).

My question has to do with reentry heating.  LKO velocity is around 6 km/sec, so it puts a lot of stress on the heatshield when I come back into the atmosphere.  Frequently the ablator runs out and I'm still going 4 km/sec in atmosphere.  I haven't yet attempted a manned return from the Mun or Minmus, for fear that Jeb is going to burn up.  Do I just change the reentry heating slider in the persistence file?  Or does changing the atmosphere heat setting in Dimensions do anything?  As an alternative, does SMURFF at 0.5 lever help out with heating?  If anyone wants to share their story of how they dealt with heating in stock 1.0.5 aero, I'd love to hear it.

Edited March 20, 2016 by Norcalplanner

[Marsu69]

Hi.

I'm still a newbie in the 6.4 but here's my short story ;-)

The first time I've tried with à 6.4 rescale I've burned everything. The second time i've killed Jeb due to g-forces ;-)

Now I think i'm ok and i've managed to make a safe de-orbit.

You need to lower your PE to 30 / 40 km. If you get to low you will have problems.

So with this in mind it is easier to re-enter when you are already in orbit. The sub-orbital flight are more stressfull because you can't raise your PE enough.

To deal with it i'm really cautious with my sub flight. I tried to never exceed 100 km AP. And I tried to make it as long as I can before reentry.

(BTW I play with FAR, DR, and Realheat)

Hope this can help.

[ThorBeorn]

@Norcalplanner : Change the thermal sliders in the Alt+F12 menu under "thermal". With everything balanced to stock speeds, you'll run into trouble like this otherwise.

Using RealHeat actually makes re-entry heating a lot lower in a 6.4 rescale since it's balanced for RSS/RO, hence RealHeat.

[Norcalplanner]

Update - adding SMURFF with a lever of 0.5, plus reducing the heat slider slightly (to 90%) made reentry from 6.4x Minmus survivable.  I may end up going down to 80% on the heating when I go interplanetary, but I think I'm good for the moment.

Thanks everyone for their suggestions.

[MainSailor]

This is probably more of a question for the Kopernicus folks, but, what is the setting I'd need to change to keep the KSC from clipping into the terrain? At 6.4x, KSC is fine but I'm testing out 10x and everything that is 'ground level' at KSC appears under the terrain. I tried reading this link (https://github.com/NathanKell/RealSolarSystem/wiki/PQSCity-and-PQSMod_MapDecalTangent) but PQS is not something I'm familiar with, so I don't even understand some of the explanations. I gathered that repositionRadiusOffset should be what I need to change, but when I change that, KSC doesn't appear to move, even when I change to something ludicrous like 1000 (which would be 1km, I thought.)

[Sigma88]

57 minutes ago, MainSailor said:

This is probably more of a question for the Kopernicus folks, but, what is the setting I'd need to change to keep the KSC from clipping into the terrain? At 6.4x, KSC is fine but I'm testing out 10x and everything that is 'ground level' at KSC appears under the terrain. I tried reading this link (https://github.com/NathanKell/RealSolarSystem/wiki/PQSCity-and-PQSMod_MapDecalTangent) but PQS is not something I'm familiar with, so I don't even understand some of the explanations. I gathered that repositionRadiusOffset should be what I need to change, but when I change that, KSC doesn't appear to move, even when I change to something ludicrous like 1000 (which would be 1km, I thought.)

this is weird, I thought I had tested it to make sure this wouldn't happen anymore... atleast for all the rescales under 100x

 

could you send me your modulemanager cache file and the list of all mods you have installed?

 

have you tried to reproduce this issue with only MM + Kopernicus + SigmaDimensions ?

 

Edited March 21, 2016 by Sigma88

[MainSailor]

3 hours ago, Sigma88 said:

this is weird, I thought I had tested it to make sure this wouldn't happen anymore... atleast for all the rescales under 100x

could you send me your modulemanager cache file and the list of all mods you have installed?

have you tried to reproduce this issue with only MM + Kopernicus + SigmaDimensions ?

It's happening with Uncharted Lands. Haven't tried stock + SD yet. I have tested without any other mods (except maybe Procedural Parts & UL) on two machines. I will have to wait to get home to send you cache & logs, as my 'dev' computer doesn't have Sigma/Kopernicus/UL installed (although I suppose I could try.) I even tried knocking down the Landscape from 1 to at least 0.5 and was still seeing it.

 

Edit: Dev machine doesn't have the same issue, but does still do something weird: (UL, SD, MM, no other mods.)

...and didn't do anything abnormal at all with just SD and stock planets. Although being my dev machine terrain might be kicked down pretty low on these settings.

Edited March 21, 2016 by MainSailor

[Sigma88]

@MainSailor

yeah I have balanced the rescale on the stock system so it may very well be that there are some problems on mods that move the KSC

I will see if there is anything I can do to override the issue

[MainSailor]

2 minutes ago, Sigma88 said:

yeah I have balanced the rescale on the stock system so it may very well be that there are some problems on mods that move the KSC

UL definitely moves KSC. And I saw no issues under a 6.4 rescale, only now that I've moved to 10x.

2 minutes ago, Sigma88 said:

I will see if there is anything I can do to override the issue

Oh awesome thanks. Here I was thinking it was just a Kopernicus thing.

Edited March 21, 2016 by MainSailor

[Sigma88]

4 minutes ago, MainSailor said:

UL definitely moves KSC. And I saw no issues under a 6.4 rescale, only now that I've moved to 10x.

Oh awesome thanks. Here I was thinking it was just a Kopernicus thing.

well... It's a mix of issues in one.

if there is something that I can do I will otherwise you can just add a patch to change the position of the KSC and everything will be good

[MainSailor]

Just now, Sigma88 said:

well... It's a mix of issues in one.

if there is something that I can do I will otherwise you can just add a patch to change the position of the KSC and everything will be good

That's actually what started this...I was just looking for a way to adjust the height, I'm not sure which of the variables I'm supposed to change. Since I didn't see it in stock I'm thinking it's not SD's fault. I fully admit the issues I'm having are probably a bunch of stuff not meant to work well together 

[Sigma88]

1 minute ago, MainSailor said:

That's actually what started this...I was just looking for a way to adjust the height, I'm not sure which of the variables I'm supposed to change. Since I didn't see it in stock I'm thinking it's not SD's fault. I fully admit the issues I'm having are probably a bunch of stuff not meant to work well together 

I guess you are using the released version of SD

try with the dev.version, that shouldn't have any issues at 10x

[MainSailor]

Just now, Sigma88 said:

I guess you are using the released version of SD

try with the dev.version, that shouldn't have any issues at 10x

Oh. No I didn't realize there was a dev version. Will grab it, thanks!

[Sigma88]

13 minutes ago, MainSailor said:

Oh. No I didn't realize there was a dev version. Will grab it, thanks!

yeah sometimes the dev.version is less reliable since you may download it after I changed something that introduced bugs, but if you download it now you should get only more features and not more bug.

[Sigma88]

even better, I think I may have finally figured out the correct way to rescale it...

[MrMeeb]

Something doesn't seem right here  

I'm aware of the whole 'spreading out' issue, but my understanding was that you'd fixed elevation issues?

Additionally, when I tried moving another KK asset into the correct position, when I came back, while they were in the correct place in terms of XYZ, the elevation was no longer correct, even though when I saved it, it was right. I've observed that if you leave a craft on the launch pad, exit the game, then reload the game, the icon appears to have moved, even though the scale hasn't changed. Is there a certain part of the scaling that is slightly inconsistent, so to speak?

[Sigma88]

13 minutes ago, MrMeeb said:

Something doesn't seem right here  

I'm aware of the whole 'spreading out' issue, but my understanding was that you'd fixed elevation issues?

Additionally, when I tried moving another KK asset into the correct position, when I came back, while they were in the correct place in terms of XYZ, the elevation was no longer correct, even though when I saved it, it was right. I've observed that if you leave a craft on the launch pad, exit the game, then reload the game, the icon appears to have moved, even though the scale hasn't changed. Is there a certain part of the scaling that is slightly inconsistent, so to speak?

when you move stuff from in-game and then save its position, KK will save the new position in the cfg.

when you restart the game, SigmaDimensions will see a config and scale it.

So if you are playing on a 10x resize kerbin, and from ingame you save a "thing" at 1000 meters altitude, the number 1000 will be saved in the cfg.

then Sigma Dimensions will scale that 1000 by 10x making it 10000 meters

what you need to do, if you want to edit the position of things is either:

1. put it in the correct position on a normal sized planet, save the cfg, and then add SigmaDimensions

2. save it from ingame while on a resized planet, then go into the cfg and edit the parameters to account for this change

 

if you choose for nr2 you need to:

a. locate the cfg

b. find the node "STATIC" that you want to edit

c. find the "Instances" node that you have just added from ingame

d. divide the number saved into "RadiusOffset" by the Resize parameter

e. divide the number saved into "RadiusOffset" by the landscape parameter

f. save the cfg

 

 

Also, altitude issues on UL may be due to the fact that most of KK mods are designed to go on Stock Kerbin, so there is probably some discrepancy between the altitude in the non-resized UL as well

Edited March 23, 2016 by Sigma88

[MrMeeb]

32 minutes ago, Sigma88 said:

d. divide the number saved into "RadiusOffset" by the Resize parameter

e. divide the number saved into "RadiusOffset" by the landscape parameter

 

So, after correctly placing it on a scaled planet with an altitude of 1552.991, it'd be 1552.991/6.4 = x then x/0.41 = y, and y would be the final parameter to enter?

Edited March 23, 2016 by MrMeeb

[Sigma88]

3 minutes ago, MrMeeb said:

So, after correctly placing it on a scaled planet with an altitude of 1552.991, it'd be 1552.991/6.4 = x then x/0.41 = y, and y would be the final parameter to enter?

If you have set

resize = 6.4

landscape = 0.41

 

Then yes

[thunder175]

@Sigma88 Can you help with this small problem? I tried installing Trans-Keptunian planet pack along with OPM in a Sigma Dimensions rescaled game. The OPM planets were fine and rescaled appropriately, however the Trans-Keptunian did not and remained in 1x scale. I know its a conflict between patches somewhere, but I don't know MM well enough to start making changes.

 

[Sigma88]

2 hours ago, thunder175 said:

@Sigma88 Can you help with this small problem? I tried installing Trans-Keptunian planet pack along with OPM in a Sigma Dimensions rescaled game. The OPM planets were fine and rescaled appropriately, however the Trans-Keptunian did not and remained in 1x scale. I know its a conflict between patches somewhere, but I don't know MM well enough to start making changes.

 

I thinke the easies way to do this would be this:

1. go to GameData\Trans-Keptunian
2. create a new folder called Configs
3. move all .cfg files from the current folder into the new folder
4. go to GameData\Trans-Keptunian\Mods
5. open OPMCompatibility.cfg with notepad
6. the first line should read: @Kopernicus:AFTER[Trans-Keptunian]:NEEDS[OPM]
7. change the first line to: @Kopernicus:AFTER[Kopernicus]:NEEDS[OPM]
8. save

this should allow SD to rescale orbits of Trans Keptunian objects properly

 

edit:

I have already notified @Gravitasi of the issue but I don't know if he's still working on TK

Edited March 24, 2016 by Sigma88

[thunder175]

2 hours ago, Sigma88 said:

edit:

I have already notified @Gravitasi of the issue but I don't know if he's still working on TK

Thanks! I saw your post in the TK thread. Doesn't look like the author has been on here in six months so who knows. Might be abandonware. I will check out your change to the configs when I get home later and report back. But this is definitely good since you can build a compatible planet pack section to your first post. Do you recommend any other ones that are more current and compliant with SD rescales? I liked TK since it adds more dwarfs waaaaaaay out there. I'm already running your Pluron/Khato set (which is great), although I tweaked the config file to push it out a little further than OPM's Plock since their SMA's looked close. Although now Transfer Window Planner says Kerbin->Pluron will take 177 years at 6.4x rescale... ugh. Gravity assist here I come!!

[Sigma88]

9 minutes ago, thunder175 said:

Thanks! I saw your post in the TK thread. Doesn't look like the author has been on here in six months so who knows. Might be abandonware. I will check out your change to the configs when I get home later and report back. But this is definitely good since you can build a compatible planet pack section to your first post. Do you recommend any other ones that are more current and compliant with SD rescales? I liked TK since it adds more dwarfs waaaaaaay out there. I'm already running your Pluron/Khato set (which is great), although I tweaked the config file to push it out a little further than OPM's Plock since their SMA's looked close. Although now Transfer Window Planner says Kerbin->Pluron will take 177 years at 6.4x rescale... ugh. Gravity assist here I come!!

One pack that I think doesn't get enough attention is @tygoo7's Saru Planet Pack.

it's just a small pack but Saru is my favourite gas giant on this thread. and as you can see in the OP it works perfectly with SigmaDimensions

Edited March 24, 2016 by Sigma88

[Marsu69]

Hey there.

 

Continuing playing with the settings I have a bug wich i don't understand :

I've tried to go to 10x scale kerbol system with these settings :

// Base Settings

SigmaDimensions
{
	Resize = 10
	Rescale = 10
	Atmosphere = 1.714
	dayLengthMultiplier = 4
}

 

The problem i have is that space is still happening at 90km just like if i was in 6.4k.

I don't understand why. If i'm correct, space in normal kerbol system is at 70.000 km. I want to put it like RSS to 120 km. So 120 / 70 = 1.714.

Can't figure why it is at 90 riht now. Is there any sort of cache or something that i must delete before changing the settings ?(I've played some time with a 6.4 rescale with GreenWolf config)

 

Thanks

Edited March 26, 2016 by Marsu69

[MrMeeb]

17 minutes ago, Marsu69 said:

Hey there.

 

Continuing playing with the settings I have a bug wich i don't understand :

I've tried to go to 10x scale kerbol system with these settings :

// Base Settings

SigmaDimensions
{
	Resize = 10
	Rescale = 10
	Atmosphere = 1.714
	dayLengthMultiplier = 4
}

 

The problem i have is that space is still happening at 90km just like if i was in 6.4k.

I don't understand why. If i'm correct, space in normal kerbol system is at 70.000 km. I want to put it like RSS to 120 km. So 120 / 70 = 1.714.

Can't figure why it is at 90 riht now. Is there any sort of cache or something that i must delete before changing the settings ?(I've played some time with a 6.4 rescale with GreenWolf config)

 

Thanks

Maybe try deleting your ModuleManager cache? It could be that MM hasn't seen a change? Or something?