Speeding Mullet

Buran 11F35 Kerbal l - [Stock] [30/12/15 Major design review]

Recommended Posts

BURAN 11F35 KERBAL 1

FgaLkNk.png

Buran 11F35 Kerbal 1-3 post missions. 11F35 Kerbal 4 survived an emergency abort to the island runway after a KSC Kraken attack.

 

 

30/12/2015 - Design review complete, and OP updated with new information and craft files.

 

A couple of people may know or remember that I've created a few very low part count and really tiddly shuttles in the past, but the big one has always evaded me.  With the advent of 1.0.5 and the new shuttle friendly parts I wanted to see if designing a shuttle was within my grasp.  I already had quite a decent knowledge of the shuttle proper, but I thought this would be a great opportunity to teach myself about the Buran orbiter and associated Energia launcher.


Couple of interesting facts: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buran_(spacecraft) - Have a read :cool:


Then I thought how am I actually going to make this useful, and not just a series of wonderful screenshots.  I mean the thing has to do what the Buran was really designed to do, and also I've never successfully managed to build and fly a working shuttle, let alone a Buran with it's shuttle's engines not firing all the way to orbit and all the off axis shenanigans that entails  My only real stipulations when I was thinking about how this would all work were:

  • Stock.
  • Remember that not everyone has a GERTY 3000 - low part count where possible - With this in mind I have left the shuttle "bare bones".  I thought it would be better to leave room for individual preference and creativity in this area.  If you want fine detail such as solar panels or fuel cell arrays, antennas, ladders, Snacks etc for extended on orbit operations, please feel free to add them yourselves and get creative, it's better than removing a hundred of my parts before you get going!!
  • Has to hulk something useful to orbit.
  • Has to actually be extremely user friendly.

So I set about creating the Buran 11F35 Kerbal I (doesn't that just roll off the tongue), and I think in the process made easily my finest shuttle, and very possibly my finest craft not including the Deep Jool which still surprises me when I look back at the mission report.  Anyway, without further bum-guffery I bring you the shuttle:

mgKq9sb.png

Buran 11F35 Kerbal 1 on orbit with the core module of the Sunrise High Altitude Orbital Outpost in the cargo bay.

So the details.  Well it's a close enough copy of the Buran without using any mods or adding any more parts than I absolutely have to.  For example most people familiar with the Buran will notice the absence of the sticky outy bits containing the maneuvering jets.  In a nod to these I moved the proposed location of the turbojets slightly.  In another nod to the bulbous shape of the rear of the Buran I included a helpful drag chute for landing.  As we can see the vertical stabilizer is, importantly, present.  It's actually 2 vertical stabilizers set up so when B (brake) is pressed, it flares and performs the aero-brake function.

Let's have a look at the bottom now (stop it :D)

SZZJ8ap.png

Buran 11F35 Kerbal 1 on on the launch pad for inspection of underside.

I've tried to make this profile as neat and uncluttered as possible, but at the end of the day you still have to address COM vs COL etc, so the above is as close as I could get.  It's mostly straight lines, although the profile of the wing parts has been very, very carefully set up to maximise stability in atmosphere.  The result is beautiful - you can leave this thing to aero-brake itself back from orbit with almost no supervision.  A closer look at the side profile shows up the wing setup with more clarity:

7vQhIfg.png

Buran 11F35 Kerbal 1 on on the launch pad for inspection of wing angle.

Here you can see a couple of tasty tricks.  Firstly, where the wings join the main hull of the craft near the nose we are angled up and in slightly.  This was pretty instrumental in getting decent atmospheric flight, and also helped rather a lot with maintaining a decent attitude on reentry.  Secondly there's two shuttle wings on each side.  I originally just had the lower wing on each side, but needed so many reaction wheels to keep the thing stable, and it also looked a little thin for my liking.  Inserting the second wing at just the right angle above the first allowed me to remove every single reaction wheel, and hence reduce part count and maximise internal volume in the cargo bay.  The result of the double wing is an extremely maneuverable and easy to fly (remember it has jet engines) craft, as well as being more aesthetically pleasing in my eye.

So let's have a look at Cargo options.  The Buran can lift Inigma Industries 42t payload to over 1000km  but it's really in it's element lobbing space station modules weighing around 9-18t to any orbit you please.  Below you can see the Sunrise High Altitude Orbital Outpost, assembled in orbit from 4 modules which are ready for download at the bottom of this thread.

jFSp11j.png

Sunrise High Altitude Orbital Outpost at 400km.  It would later use it's ion engines to raise it's orbit to 1000km

I think now might be the right time to have a look at the whole Buran and Energia together on the launch pad:

IaI57iE.png

Buran 11F35 Kerbal 1 fueled and ready for launch.  I'm sure that wreck in the foreground is scheduled for rebuild...

I'm not entirely sure if I have the scale right, but to be honest, using only stock parts there's compromises which have to be made, which is part of the joy of painting.  Your happy little boosters can only be so big.  So there's some other compromises here.  For example in the real Energia the boosters split off in pairs and then separate, but in this version they all separate.  I've now managed to set up the separation properly so the boosters rotate away beautifully and fall away with increasing distance from each other, ensuring no unauthorised kabooms.

Next we need to cover off a typical launch profile.  After all I designed this to be as easy as possibly to fly, but it is probably not what one would class as a beginners rocket.  First a gallery:

 

 

Now the instructions.  These are overly detailed, but should lead to simple repeatable launches every time.  Please bear in mind heavier payloads may require adjustment so play around:

The Launch Profile:

  1. Press 2, 1, 1, Z, T - 2 closes the air intakes, 1 (twice for some reason) disables the Burans RCS ports, Z is full throttle (Oh yeah!) T is stability.
  2. Press Space - Seems obvious now doesn't it.  Did you make sure you closed the cargo bay doors?!
  3. At 4000m press R and change to prograde hold.  
  4. Throttle depending on cargo to hit 300m/s at 10,000m and 440m/s at 14,000m - no control input is required for the vehicle to pitch correctly.
  5. At roughly 45 degree pitch over throttle up - This should be just before booster sep
  6. Separate boosters
  7. At about 50,000m rotate so the Buran is effectively on top of the remaining tank - This is only really a style thing, it's not required if you don't want to
  8. Reduce power until you have reached the desired apogee
  9. Burn again at apoapsis raising periapsis to just below the height of the atmosphere - be responsible and let that space junk burn.  If you want to achieve a really high orbit then keep burning and await future Kessler sydrome.
  10. Fire the sepatrons to blow the main fuel tank away from the orbiter - This is a nice sep I promise.  If you have fuel left in the main tank you can top off the Buran for extended orbital operations.
  11. Stage the orbital engines in on the buran and go about your business citizen! - don't forget to press 1 to re-engage RCS if required.

 

I realise de-orbiting is rather dear to some people's hearts so let's also discuss that.  The below profile is for deorbit from around 300km.  Adjust as required and remember with shuttles, gentle is better.  This shuttle is extremely easy to handle, and you can effectively de-orbit hands free if you get things right.  First a gallery:

 

Now the instructions.  Again these are pretty over detailed, and you will be able to figure out the best reentry for your orbit.  Just remember that we do have the immense luxury of two J-33 Wheesley turbofan engines for those with deorbit deficiencies (I'm talking about me here, and this was a primary reason I went with Buran over Shuttle):

The Re-entry Profile:

  1. From 300km lower periapsis to about min 26km - max 50km and shut down orbital engines - again find the best profile for your orbit, you won't always be able to dip so far into the atmosphere depending on cargo and speed etc.
  2. Right click all wing parts and enable pitch, yaw, and roll - They were all but 1 set disabled for launch as they were not required
  3. Press 1 to enable RCS ports - again really not needed but it's a nice to have for that virtually hands free re-entry
  4. Set angle of attack to roughly 25 Degrees - again find what works for you
  5. Make a cup of tea - If you have set up your de-orbit correctly you can absolutely do this!  On a very gentle reentry you may see yourself drift from 45km back up to 60km before dropping down again, and covering a large distance.
  6. Press 2 to open the air intakes at around 20km, and stage the Wheesley's, or right click on the engines to activate them
  7. When re-entry flames have died off suitably, pitch nose to prograde and follow down to suitable altitude to utilise jets.
  8. Fly about a bit.
  9. Deploy landing gear, hold B or press brake button to flare aerobrakes, and land, staging parachute to assist.

 

That's about it folks!  Let's recap on what I wanted to achieve in building this.

  • Stock - tick
  • Remember that not everyone has a GERTY 3000 - low part count where possible - 238 parts including launch clamps and lights on launch clamps.  476.9t on Liftoff.
  • Has to hulk something useful to orbit - I built a space station at 400km.  It also lifted Inigma Industries 42t payload to over 1000km.
  • Has to actually be extremely user friendly - I made a round of tea during a deorbit.  I misjudged the re-entry and used the wheesley's to land at the island runway.

I think all in all I succeeded.  I've left pretty much every single unnecessary part off, removed as many struts as I can find without taking away from structural integrity, and generally tried to make the most flyable and user friendly shuttle possible.  Odd that it turned out to be a Buran!

 

AWARDS:

Awards are all won from entry to the STS Challenge V2, being run by FCISuperGuy.  I highly recommend you check it out.

et2p8E4.jpg

Report Here.  Inigma Industries has contracted you to take their 42t fuel pod up to Kerbin orbit. Since it requires special on-orbit activation procedures, unmanned expendable launch vehicles are out of the question; it's up to you to take this behemoth to orbit and back. Not only that, but they require a very precise orbit: there must be less than 100m difference between your apoapsis and periapsis. If you have successfully taken the Fuel Pod to orbit (70+km), you get the special Flight Director badge, the ultimate display of piloting and engineering prowess and skill.

WUvoQpP.jpg

Report Here.  Your goal is to deploy 2 comsats from Inigma weighing from your Shuttle and to return to Kerbin. Additional goals are required for higher-ranking badges.   Reach an orbit of 350+km and deploy your two comsats with spin stabilization (using the provided Sepratrons) to geostationary orbits. Deorbit and land at either at the KSC, the Island Airfield just off of KSC, or at any Kerbal Konstructs airport.

neSFTQk.jpg

Report Here.  Your mission here involves some orbital construction - you are to launch the Hubble Space Telescope by xoknight into orbit and deploy it. This will require assembly with the 2 MMUs provided, as the solar panels need to be attached on-orbit with Kerbals.  Requires STS Commander Rank 2. Launch the HST to a 550+km circular orbit inclined at 25-30 degrees and assemble it. After deployment, land at either at the KSC, the Island Airfield just off of KSC, or at any Kerbal Konstructs airport.

yCCnUU7.jpg

Report Here.   This'll be the most daring mission so far - first, you must launch a single shuttle to orbit, then send another shuttle to rescue it. See this article for technical details of the IRL proposed STS-107 rescue. Launch your first space shuttle into an 350+km orbit with 6 crew at an inclination of 25-30 degrees, then send your second shuttle to rendezvous with it and rescue its crew. Land at either at the KSC, the Island Airfield just off of KSC, or at any Kerbal Konstructs airport.

 

CRAFT FILES:

Buran and Energia Launcher Variant 2 - Updated 30/12/2015 following extensive design review.

Sunrise High Altitude Orbital Outpost Module 1 - sub assembly

Sunrise High Altitude Orbital Outpost Module 2 - sub assembly

Sunrise High Altitude Orbital Outpost Module 3 - sub assembly

Sunrise High Altitude Orbital Outpost Module 4 - sub assembly

Photon Fuel Cell Module - sub assembly
 

Absolutely welcome any observations, criticisms, or general praise ;) 

SM

 

 

Edited by Speeding Mullet
Extensive design review 30/12/2015

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This looks cool!

I'll note this thread down and come back to it for the craft tomorrow.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, DMSP said:

This looks cool!

I'll note this thread down and come back to it for the craft tomorrow.

Thanks!  I've linked to the craft files so the Buran and Energia Launcher are now available to download, as well as the 3 sub assembly space station components.  Let me know how you go!

SM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Absolutely beautiful and amazing rendition of the Buran. From a space shuttle designer to another, great job!  I'd just like to suggest a few things to add:

1. Instead of just mounting the four KS-25s directly on the fuselage, try using an "engine mount" like this (hidden due to large pic):

Spoiler

nDY7sG7.png

This demonstration version only uses 13 parts and allows you to rotate all 4 engines to face the center of mass (by using the rotate tool on the cubic octagonal strut in the middle). This reduces the likelihood of the Buran wanting to pitch upwards during launch.

 

2. Use fuel lines to change the fuel flow of the Energia to empty from the bottom-up. This means that you no longer have to use the 3 thrusters on the nose of the Energia or manually transfer the fuel; it's aready in the front and acting as a counterweight. Here's some demonstration pictures from my space shuttle replica (the KTS) (once again, pics hidden due to size):

Spoiler

paBR6DF.png

As you can see,  this allows the fuel in the bottom to feed the fuel at the top. Took me a while to figure it out, with some help/inspiration from inigma's STS shuttle. The fuel lines run from top to bottom, connecting via struts located on each fuel tank on the ET. The only difference you'll have to make to adapt this for your Buran is changing the bottom fuel line to feed fuel to the engines below the Energia instead of to the Buran.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, FCISuperGuy said:

Absolutely beautiful and amazing rendition of the Buran. From a space shuttle designer to another, great job!  I'd just like to suggest a few things to add:

Thanks very much indeed, it's taken quite a lot of KSP time to get this one right, but there's always room for improvements, which brings me to your suggestions, which I just wanted to explore a little more:

1) "The Engine Mount".  I like the idea - If I'm reading you right you use that frame to angle all of the engines towards the COM to take some strain off the gimbals?  To be honest it's already set up pretty much perfectly to go straight up, pitch over without any control input and follow a pretty much ideal path to orbit apart from the need to reduce power slightly, which brings me on to your next point.

2) "Anti-gravity fuel lines".  I was wondering if there was a solution and I think you have just shown it to me :)  This could do away with the need to transfer fuel up the main tank, and totally negate the need for the Engine mount you suggested (saving 9 parts), and also the vernor engines (saving 3 parts).  I am going to try it now and report back shortly.  The Burans fuel is totally self contained it is not needed to reach orbit so no line needed there, just up the main tank.

SM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Speeding Mullet said:

Thanks very much indeed, it's taken quite a lot of KSP time to get this one right, but there's always room for improvements, which brings me to your suggestions, which I just wanted to explore a little more:

1) "The Engine Mount".  I like the idea - If I'm reading you right you use that frame to angle all of the engines towards the COM to take some strain off the gimbals?  To be honest it's already set up pretty much perfectly to go straight up, pitch over without any control input and follow a pretty much ideal path to orbit apart from the need to reduce power slightly, which brings me on to your next point.

2) "Anti-gravity fuel lines".  I was wondering if there was a solution and I think you have just shown it to me :)  This could do away with the need to transfer fuel up the main tank, and totally negate the need for the Engine mount you suggested (saving 9 parts), and also the vernor engines (saving 3 parts).  I am going to try it now and report back shortly.  The Burans fuel is totally self contained it is not needed to reach orbit so no line needed there, just up the main tank.

SM

No problem. That's exactly what I meant to do with the 1st suggestion - also means you can take off the 3 Vernors on the nose. Good luck implementing both suggestions - hopefully it makes this more awesome than it already is!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, FCISuperGuy said:

Good luck implementing both suggestions - hopefully it makes this more awesome than it already is!

I routed the fuel lines from the top to the bottom using as few lines as possible (you don't need to hit every tank on the way down) and used cubic octagonal struts, which I then offset into the tanks to hide them.  At the bottom I made a rather nice fuel line array which I think actually adds to the nice detail.  

Spoiler

zWE79Ek.png

I then removed the 3 vernor engines, a couple more unnecessary struts, and replaced 6 small batteries for one large one.  I also added a reaction wheel to the bottom (is this better placed somewhere else?) to help with adjusting direction in space (the vernor engines did help there)  The result is brilliant, you no longer need to transfer fuel, and on a test run of boosting module 3 (8 tonnes) to orbit it pretty much performed flawlessly.

The bonus is that the part count only went up to 231 from 230!

Thanks for the suggestions, I will do a couple more full test runs including max cargo and if everything checks out I will replace the upload file and rework the launch profile!!

 

SM

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On December 2, 2015 at 18:11:39, Speeding Mullet said:

I routed the fuel lines from the top to the bottom using as few lines as possible (you don't need to hit every tank on the way down) and used cubic octagonal struts, which I then offset into the tanks to hide them.  At the bottom I made a rather nice fuel line array which I think actually adds to the nice detail.  

-imgsnip-

I then removed the 3 vernor engines, a couple more unnecessary struts, and replaced 6 small batteries for one large one.  I also added a reaction wheel to the bottom (is this better placed somewhere else?) to help with adjusting direction in space (the vernor engines did help there)  The result is brilliant, you no longer need to transfer fuel, and on a test run of boosting module 3 (8 tonnes) to orbit it pretty much performed flawlessly.

The bonus is that the part count only went up to 231 from 230!

Thanks for the suggestions, I will do a couple more full test runs including max cargo and if everything checks out I will replace the upload file and rework the launch profile!!

 

SM

 

Nice! Great job reducing the part count on the fuel array - I'll be sure to check that out when your new one is released to see if I reduce the part count of my own shuttle... I didn't fully clip my own fuel array as the real Space Shuttle's external tank had a fuel pump line going down the length of the tank as well; Energia didn't AFAIK. Regarding the reaction wheel, you could clip it into the tanks with the debug menu. 

 

EDIT: I did a bit of research and found out that the IRL ET fuel line I was referring to was the liquid oxygen feed line. Just an FYI.

Edited by FCISuperGuy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, FCISuperGuy said:

Congratulations - you got featured on Spacecraft Friday! Keep up the good work!

That's totally cool!  A lot of work into getting it right, including with your input, so it's great to see it featured!

FYI I just updated the Buran and Energia craft file to the latest version with the routed fuel lines and a better main tank sep to go with it.

EDIT: I also tweaked the launch abort, although craft must be on max power to abort using the Burans engines, it can abort cleanly at any point in the launch sequence.

FYI your FYI re: Oxy line was a good FYI FYI :D

 

1 hour ago, martinborgen said:

Maybe I misunderstood, but the original buran did not have jets, no?

Hi martinborgen - The Buran test article had 4 jet engines installed, and was tested extensively with 25 atmospheric flights until it was deemed "worn out".  You are right that the Buran that went to orbit did not have jet engines installed, and like every shuttle landing, Buran glided in with just one shot to get it right (it did, and fully automated too!).


The Buran had it entered full service would have had a pair of jet engines located at the base of the vertical stabilizer.  The intent of these jets was to allow a wider range of landing sites once Buran had punched through the atmosphere.

As this Buran is a work horse in my game, we will call it the Buran that entered full service :P.  I didn't want to leave out the jet engines, mostly because of my own ineptitude de-orbiting, and also because I think it makes for a more interesting and versatile craft than a pure glide entry shuttle. 

It's way less F5 F9 for people leaning to fly shuttles too as they can mess around a little if they get the first pass at landing wrong, or want to abort to an alternate runway etc.

Pumped that this was featured in SCF!! ^_^

SM

 

Edited by Speeding Mullet

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Speeding Mullet said:

That's totally cool!  A lot of work into getting it right, including with your input, so it's great to see it featured!

FYI I just updated the Buran and Energia craft file to the latest version with the routed fuel lines and a better main tank sep to go with it.

EDIT: I also tweaked the launch abort, although craft must be on max power to abort using the Burans engines, it can abort cleanly at any point in the launch sequence.

-megasnip-

Pumped that this was featured in SCF!! ^_^

Just tested the update - looks and works fabulously! Once again, congrats on the SCF feature, and hope more comes from it! (I also got featured on SCF a few weeks back)

4 hours ago, Speeding Mullet said:

As this Buran is a work horse in my game, we will call it the Buran that entered full service :P.  I didn't want to leave out the jet engines, mostly because of my own ineptitude de-orbiting, and also because I think it makes for a more interesting and versatile craft than a pure glide entry shuttle. 

It's way less F5 F9 for people leaning to fly shuttles too as they can mess around a little if they get the first pass at landing wrong, or want to abort to an alternate runway etc.

Amen. I actually made a Buran flight test analogue to learn how to glide and land shuttles; it was really sketchy and only worked 1/2 of the time. Evenutally, I gave up and built a really simple carrier aircraft for glide landing practice and eventually, testing and practice on my own shuttle. I'll show this to a friend of mine who wants to learn how to make and land shuttles.

Edited by FCISuperGuy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Speeding Mullet said:

 

Hi martinborgen - The Buran test article had 4 jet engines installed, and was tested extensively with 25 atmospheric flights until it was deemed "worn out".  You are right that the Buran that went to orbit did not have jet engines installed, and like every shuttle landing, Buran glided in with just one shot to get it right (it did, and fully automated too!).


The Buran had it entered full service would have had a pair of jet engines located at the base of the vertical stabilizer.  The intent of these jets was to allow a wider range of landing sites once Buran had punched through the atmosphere.

As this Buran is a work horse in my game, we will call it the Buran that entered full service :P.  I didn't want to leave out the jet engines, mostly because of my own ineptitude de-orbiting, and also because I think it makes for a more interesting and versatile craft than a pure glide entry shuttle. 

It's way less F5 F9 for people leaning to fly shuttles too as they can mess around a little if they get the first pass at landing wrong, or want to abort to an alternate runway etc.

Pumped that this was featured in SCF!! ^_^

SM

 

Ah, I didn't know that - cool.

But an early shuttle design was planned to have jets too - should you want jets. =)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎6‎/‎12‎/‎2015‎ ‎7‎:‎37‎:‎23‎, FCISuperGuy said:

Just tested the update - looks and works fabulously! Once again, congrats on the SCF feature, and hope more comes from it! (I also got featured on SCF a few weeks back)

Nice thanks for testing, and also congrats on the feature!  I just used the Buran to launch @inigma's 42t Payload to 203km (posted in your V2 challenge).  I was very very surprised it could shift such a weight to space given it's massively off centre and there's no running engines on the shuttle to help with that during the entire launch to space.  Here's the album, and thanks Inigma for the payload :)

 

 

On ‎6‎/‎12‎/‎2015‎ ‎7‎:‎37‎:‎23‎, FCISuperGuy said:

I'll show this to a friend of mine who wants to learn how to make and land shuttles.

Absolutely go for it, it's very user friendly, I just de-orbited from 203km with no RCS, worked fine!

On ‎6‎/‎12‎/‎2015‎ ‎9‎:‎49‎:‎31‎, martinborgen said:

But an early shuttle design was planned to have jets too - should you want jets. =)

I think this Buran would convert very well to an STS given the shape of the shuttle.  I may give that a go!

 

SM

Edited by Speeding Mullet
spelling

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Speeding Mullet said:

Nice thanks for testing, and also congrats on the feature!  I just used the Buran to launch @inigma's 42t Payload to 203km (posted in your V2 challenge).  I was very very surprised it could shift such a weight to space given it's massively off centre and there's no running engines on the shuttle to help with that during the entire launch to space.  Here's the album, and thanks Inigma for the payload :)

 

 

Absolutely go for it, it's very user friendly, I just de-orbited from 203km with no RCS, worked fine!

I think this Burn would convert very well to an STS given the shape of the shuttle.  I may give that a go!

 

SM

very awesome job!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Really nice craft. Definitely will help when I need to haul parts to space. One very minor thing is that the craft doesn't have solar panels. While Im pretty sure it was designed with the intent to deorbit right away after payload separation, it might not be a bad idea to add some form of power generation. Overall it is quite a good craft, and the low part count helps as I don't have the greatest PC in the world.

Cheers.

~Matt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Mattk4355 said:

Really nice craft. Definitely will help when I need to haul parts to space. One very minor thing is that the craft doesn't have solar panels. While Im pretty sure it was designed with the intent to deorbit right away after payload separation, it might not be a bad idea to add some form of power generation. Overall it is quite a good craft, and the low part count helps as I don't have the greatest PC in the world.

Cheers.

~Matt

Hi @Mattk4355 thanks very much indeed for the feedback.  They were left off on purpose (as was the ladder on the Buran if you've got that far) along with everything else "nice to have" in the interest of delivering lowest possible part count.  The Buran originally flew with only batteries, but I think was destined to have fuel cells in the same way the STS does.

I fully agree that this shuttle would benefit from solar panels or fuel cells, as in doing my missions with it I had found that to be a limitation in anything but short missions.

I'll put an amendment on the first post explaining this.  If I went all out on this craft and added my usual level of fine detail and all the nice to have's it would be more like 3-400 parts rather than 231.  If there is enough interest I may publish a "pimped" version, but it's also nice to give people a little leeway to add things that they particularly want, instead of having to remove all my extras.

Enjoy!

SM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Speeding Mullet said:

Hi @Mattk4355 thanks very much indeed for the feedback.  They were left off on purpose (as was the ladder on the Buran if you've got that far) along with everything else "nice to have" in the interest of delivering lowest possible part count.  The Buran originally flew with only batteries, but I think was destined to have fuel cells in the same way the STS does.

I fully agree that this shuttle would benefit from solar panels or fuel cells, as in doing my missions with it I had found that to be a limitation in anything but short missions.

I'll put an amendment on the first post explaining this.  If I went all out on this craft and added my usual level of fine detail and all the nice to have's it would be more like 3-400 parts rather than 231.  If there is enough interest I may publish a "pimped" version, but it's also nice to give people a little leeway to add things that they particularly want, instead of having to remove all my extras.

Enjoy!

SM

Maybe you could 'cheat' and add a few RTGs. Most shuttle replicas use them ;) If you really want to go realistic, Naito's space shuttle replica uses a fuel cell system that you can reverse engineer to get a few ideas. That's what I did at first, until the weight started piling on because of the tanking required.

Edited by FCISuperGuy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, FCISuperGuy said:

Maybe you could 'cheat' and add a few RTGs. Most shuttle replicas use them ;) If you really want to go realistic, Naito's space shuttle replica uses a fuel cell system that you can reverse engineer to get a few ideas. That's what I did at first, until the weight started piling on because of the tanking required.

RTG's are certainly an option.  I don't think I've yet used an RTG in this game on a craft thinking about it, I think I just like the solar panel animation too much!  That said the fuel cell system I definitely thought worth exploring.  

The Buran as I mentioned was supposed to have a Photon fuel cell module much like the Shuttle.  I found this interesting section in a book which shows the module, and makes a couple of noteworthy comparisons.  From here I thought why not, and made a Kerbal replica of the module to use on my Buran.  This is what I came up with:

 

The modules are small enough that you can fit (up to 4) at the front without obstructing most payloads (notable exception Inigma Industries 42t payload), and should have enough fuel to keep you in orbit for a good while with careful and sparing use of electricity.  Obviously if you are lit up like a Christmas tree your going to have a bad time, but for most applications I think you are good.  I just tested the standard Buran with all lights left on and the 2 fuel cells fitted permanently on, and they lasted just over 6 days - more than enough for most shuttle applications.

The part count is a little silly at 38 parts each though (weight 0.8t) :confused: but if anyone wants it the sub-assembly is available for download here

@Mattk4355 - Told you I get a bit silly with part count on detail!

SM

Edited by Speeding Mullet

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Speeding Mullet said:

RTG's are certainly an option.  I don't think I've yet used an RTG in this game on a craft thinking about it, I think I just like the solar panel animation too much!  That said the fuel cell system I definitely thought worth exploring.  

The Buran as I mentioned was supposed to have a Photon fuel cell module much like the Shuttle.  I found this interesting section in a book which shows the module, and makes a couple of noteworthy comparisons.  From here I thought why not, and made a Kerbal replica of the module to use on my Buran.  This is what I came up with:

-album snip-

The modules are small enough that you can fit (up to 4) at the front without obstructing most payloads (notable exception Inigma Industries 42t payload), and should have enough fuel to keep you in orbit for a good while with careful and sparing use of electricity.  Obviously if you are lit up like a Christmas tree your going to have a bad time, but for most applications I think you are good.  I just tested the standard Buran with all lights left on and the 2 fuel cells fitted permanently on, and they lasted just over 6 days - more than enough for most shuttle applications.

The part count is a little silly at 38 parts each though (weight 0.8t) :confused: but if anyone wants it the sub-assembly is available for download here

@Mattk4355 - Told you I get a bit silly with part count on detail!

SM

Wow! Quite a great job. My versions weighed almost twice as much. Do you mind if I use a modified (stripped-down) version of these on my own Shuttle replica? Of course, you'll get full credit for their design.

-FCI

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, FCISuperGuy said:

Wow! Quite a great job. My versions weighed almost twice as much. Do you mind if I use a modified (stripped-down) version of these on my own Shuttle replica? Of course, you'll get full credit for their design.

-FCI

Be my guest!  There's 4 fuel cells in the module, it only requires one, and there's 36 other parts you can take out :D.

Just completed the  STS Commander - Rank 2 section of your challenge using the STS Comsats provided by Inigma.  Once again surprised by the Buran's capability as it reached a 2868/504km orbit to deploy the satellites. Mission report to follow tomorrow in your challenge thread, then on to STS-3!

SM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Attempted to do some docking.  +/- Z sends it flipping...  Not that I should complain, I got it up AND deorbited it AND landed, though I was on the wrong continent!!  LOL.  Would have been in the drink if not for those jets.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, tg626 said:

Attempted to do some docking.  +/- Z sends it flipping...  Not that I should complain, I got it up AND deorbited it AND landed, though I was on the wrong continent!!  LOL.  Would have been in the drink if not for those jets.

I just use the standard docking controls wasd, ijkl, hn for docking and it always goes smoothly.  Just make sure you set the "control from here' to the docking port!  I might investigate the RCS jet placement having said that as this is good feedback, so thanks!  Can you clarify under exactly what conditions, or what you were doing when docking, and I'll see if I can make it more user friendly.  If I can I will update the craft files.  Any other feedback you have would be gratefully received!

Good to hear you enjoyed the craft, yes those jets pretty much save every one of missions, I am terrible at re-entry! :huh:

I just completed another couple of interesting missions with the Buran.  First up I did the STS-2 and then STS-3 missions from the Space Transportation System Challenge. achieving commander on both challenges.

STS - 2 Mission:  

I took on the STS-2 Commander - Rank 2 - Reach an orbit of 350+km and deploy your two comsats with spin stabilization (using the provided Sepratrons) to geostationary orbits. Deorbit and land at either at the KSC, the Island Airfield just off of KSC, or at any Kerbal Konstructs airport.

 

 

It was a pretty complex mission in terms of getting the staging and mission profile right, but de-orbit turned out to be a matter of reentry a couple of times, followed by a third down to the deck.  I timed it well but had to kick the jets in for the last couple of km to the runway.  The jets on the Buran really came into their own there!

As a side note, if the comsats hadn't had solar panels, I definitely would have needed 2 of the photon fuel cell modules I developed last night.  I might use them on the Hubble mission as a demonstrator of the technology.  I think there's real mileage in that little sub-assembly, so I might also develop it further.

STS - 3 Mission:

Completed STS-3 with the rank of STS Commander - Rank 3.  This was a relatively easy mission compared to the Comsat mission, although there was certainly difficulty in gauging a good re-entry profile from a 26.19 degree inclination and 691km orbit.  Building the Kubble on orbit was a great mission, and credit to @xoknight for the payload, it really is a stunning bit of kit!

 

 

STS 4-6 comes next, so I'm really going to work in improving my own space station modules, and see if I can mimic the usability and incredible detail of Inigma and xoknight's modules, in the hope of becoming "Architect" like them.

 

SM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In orbit, SAS off to check balance, I didn't do control from here, but that just changes the orientation.  Hit "up" and the nose starts rising, fast.  I found cutting the thrust of the nose jets to 20 helped a lot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, tg626 said:

In orbit, SAS off to check balance, I didn't do control from here, but that just changes the orientation.  Hit "up" and the nose starts rising, fast.  I found cutting the thrust of the nose jets to 20 helped a lot.

OK cool I'll investigate at some point this weekend, thanks for the info.  I think the problem is you can't be all things to all applications, so load in the cargo bay vs empty, the need for more powerful RCS on de-orbit, and the amount of fuel in the thing is all going to upset balance, but there has to be a "happy medium" that caters for most things.  I always have SAS on during RCS jet maneuvers, so that's probably why I haven't noticed it.

Maybe there's something I can do with action groups for varying situations....

SM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This thread is quite old. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one.

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.