Jump to content

100% data transmit without mods


Recommended Posts

Is there any way to get 100% of science when transmitting data to kerbin space center without any mods? Maybe setting up a communication network or something. In real life, all data is transmitted even when it takes long time. I guess it is made this way to engourage players to return to Kerbin but it will be nice to have at least 80 or 90% because in some places you only get like 40% of science.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Rocket In My Pocket said:

Just keep re-doing and re-sending the test, you'll eventually get all the science points available.

It takes multiple attempts vs retrieving it which nets you almost all the science in one go.

That's the downside of transmitting as I understand it.

What about a remote controlled scientific research? Some experiments need to have kerbals onboard to reset.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Rocket In My Pocket said:

Just keep re-doing and re-sending the test, you'll eventually get all the science points available.

It takes multiple attempts vs retrieving it which nets you almost all the science in one go.

That's the downside of transmitting as I understand it.

Actually, no.  This is precisely dead wrong.  I mean that in the nicest way, no offense intended, we've all been there, I remember science being really confusing :) ...just want to make sure there's no mistake here.

The answer to the original poster's question is no, it is not possible.  This is by design.  Transmitting multiple times won't help.  Putting multiple experiments on board won't help.  Sending multiple missions won't help.  After you transmit, the only way to get further science is to bring it back to Kerbin.

It's designed to stop you from doing it for precisely the reason you want to do it. ;) Physically returning the science is harder than transmitting.  So they set it up that way to give an incentive for bringing the stuff back.

There are a couple of science types that you get 100% value for transmitting, right from the get-go.  These are crew reports and EVA reports.  Everything else has a percentage cap (exactly what the percentage is depends on the experiment, and there is no way to exceed that.

To clarify my above assertion: for some experiments, you can get a smidgeon more science if you transmit a second time, but it's only a tiny percentage boost and then you hit the wall.  For example, the gravioli detector will give you something like 40% of its max value on the first transmit (I forget the exact number, don't have the game in front of me, might be 35% or something).  If you then take the same measurement in the same situation and transmit again, you pick up another 1% or 2%, something like that.  But then that's it, no more.

(please ignore the empty quote section below, stupid broken forum software pasted it in and won't let me delete it)

22 minutes ago, Snark said:

 

 

Edited by Snark
Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, Rocket In My Pocket said:

I never transmit, I always return with the data so I was just making a guesstimate based on observation.

Sounds like transmitting is even more useless than I thought.

Yes, it's fairly useless if the place you're getting science from is near Kerbin, and you're set up to do a physical return.  There are a few cases where it comes in handy, though:

First, it really is true that one-way missions are a whole lot easier.  In early career games, when tech puts severe constraints on ship design, it can be useful to send a one-way unmanned probe to snag science so that you can build a better follow-up mission that will return.  Even half science is a lot better than nothing.  For example, a fairly common pattern that I follow in early career games is to do a really early Mun landing with an unmanned probe.  I mean really early, very little of the tech tree unlocked, no patched conics.  It gives a lot of science and makes the subsequent manned landing a lot easier with the better tech.  Another example is Eve:  it's worth oodles of science, and going to Eve is very easy, but returning is the hardest mission in the game.  So, again, fairly early in my career, one of the first interplanetary things I do is to send some unmanned, one-way landers to Eve.  They're small, cheap, and return lots of science, and I can build them without a lot of tech.  The science they return gives a big boost to my space program.  The manned return Eve mission comes much later in my career.

The other scenario where transmitting is helpful is if it's going to be time-consuming to get home.  If you tend to play "linearly" on a single track (i.e. send a mission to Duna, come back, done.  Then send a mission to Moho, come back, done; that sort of thing), then this isn't super relevant-- there's no point in getting the science home any earlier than the ship itself.  On the other hand, if you play more in "parallel" where you have lots of missions all going on at the same time, it can be very useful to get science back early, to help with the launch of subsequent missions.  For example, Duna's typically my first interplanetary land-and-return-with-a-crew destination.  But by the time I get my Duna lander there, I have other irons in the fire, too.  Having the mission transmit lots of science from Duna lets me get a head start on that Moho mission without waiting for the Duna crew to come home.  I'm not giving anything up by transmitting-- after transmitting, I just grab science again so I can physically bring it back.

Edited by Snark
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Note that in "real life" we don't know 100% of what we'd learn from a return mission to Mars from the rovers we've sent. It's not like a Constellation-style mission would land next to Spirit and the astronauts would step out, look around, and go "Well, nothing more to do around here."

Edited by 5thHorseman
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Snark said:

...  The other scenario where transmitting is helpful is if it's going to be time-consuming to get home.  If you tend to play "linearly" on a single track (i.e. send a mission to Duna, come back, done.  Then send a mission to Moho, come back, done; that sort of thing), then this isn't super relevant-- there's no point in getting the science home any earlier than the ship itself.  On the other hand, if you play more in "parallel" where you have lots of missions all going on at the same time, it can be very useful to get science back early, to help with the launch of subsequent missions.  .....

And this is where I quibble with Squad's choice of which types of experiments can be transmitted for 100% and which have to be returned.  If you can transmit crew and EVA reports, why not also temperature and pressure readings?  It's all just alphanumeric stuff, maybe some faxed photos with the crew and EVA reports, but all equally amenable to being transmitted in its entirety.  You learn no more about the temperature 60km above Moho looking at the actual thermometer months later than you do having that single number transmitted back instantly.  Now, surface samples, goo, materials, and anything that involves physical stuff, sure, return that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Geschosskopf said:

And this is where I quibble with Squad's choice of which types of experiments can be transmitted for 100% and which have to be returned.  If you can transmit crew and EVA reports, why not also temperature and pressure readings?  It's all just alphanumeric stuff, maybe some faxed photos with the crew and EVA reports, but all equally amenable to being transmitted in its entirety.  You learn no more about the temperature 60km above Moho looking at the actual thermometer months later than you do having that single number transmitted back instantly.  Now, surface samples, goo, materials, and anything that involves physical stuff, sure, return that.

I always figure the "thermometer" and "barometer" are just in-game stand-ins for more complex experiments.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Snark said:

The other scenario where transmitting is helpful is if it's going to be time-consuming to get home.  If you tend to play "linearly" on a single track (i.e. send a mission to Duna, come back, done.  Then send a mission to Moho, come back, done; that sort of thing), then this isn't super relevant-- there's no point in getting the science home any earlier than the ship itself.  On the other hand, if you play more in "parallel" where you have lots of missions all going on at the same time, it can be very useful to get science back early, to help with the launch of subsequent missions.  For example, Duna's typically my first interplanetary land-and-return-with-a-crew destination.  But by the time I get my Duna lander there, I have other irons in the fire, too.  Having the mission transmit lots of science from Duna lets me get a head start on that Moho mission without waiting for the Duna crew to come home.  I'm not giving anything up by transmitting-- after transmitting, I just grab science again so I can physically bring it back.

This is what I've started to do. With a scientist on board the lander, you can just transmit for some science gain now, then run the experiments again after resetting the goo and materials bay. The science gain is the same (more or less) but you get a portion of it earlier.

Even better with a lab as you can transmit, process/research data and recover the experiments. If it's an interplanetary mission, research gives the crew something productive to do while waiting for the launch window back to Kerbin. At least it does for the scientists- pilots and engineers get to mess around playing HSP and EVA jetpack racing :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Winderfo said:

Is there any way to get 100% of science when transmitting data to kerbin space center without any mods? Maybe setting up a communication network or something. In real life, all data is transmitted even when it takes long time. I guess it is made this way to engourage players to return to Kerbin but it will be nice to have at least 80 or 90% because in some places you only get like 40% of science.

There is only one way to achieve that without mods,you need to edit *.cfg from science parts.

You can find the parts in C:\...\KSP_win\GameData\Squad\Parts\Science,open whatever part you want to edit and look for partname.cfg.Open that .cfg with any text editor (notepad...) and look for these lines:

MODULE
{
name = ModuleScienceExperiment
xmitDataScalar = 0.4 //this is the value you have to change 0.1=10% 1=100%(0.4=40%)
}

In case you want to use module manager,here is the patch for 100% data transmit:

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleScienceExperiment]]:Final
{    
@MODULE[ModuleScienceExperiment]
 {
  @xmitDataScalar = 1.0
 }
}

 

Edited by sebi.zzr
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, 5thHorseman said:

I always figure the "thermometer" and "barometer" are just in-game stand-ins for more complex experiments.

Easy enough to rename them I would think... but how does one bring a sample of the temperature home? :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, eddiew said:

Easy enough to rename them I would think... but how does one bring a sample of the temperature home? :)

I think you are underestimating the kudos gained by the chief scientist at R&D when he receives the report book containing the original temperature logs and struts around the lab with it. And the loathing and back-stabbing competitive drive that it instills in everybody else who just get the computer printouts ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, eddiew said:

Easy enough to rename them I would think... but how does one bring a sample of the temperature home? :)

But "Thermometer" is an obvious thing. We know what one is.

I suppose it'd solve THIS problem if they just called it a "reverse photonometer" or something and just said deal with it. But then people would complain that these high-tech gizmos that we haven't even realized we need yet are really low in the tech tree of this imaginary spacefaring species. And then why not have simple experiments like a thermometer?

Being able to transmit everything would remove incentive to bring stuff back, which would lower the choices the player has to affect the game state, which is bad gameplay. Gameplay trumps realism. Period.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, 5thHorseman said:

Being able to transmit everything would remove incentive to bring stuff back, which would lower the choices the player has to affect the game state, which is bad gameplay. Gameplay trumps realism. Period.

Oh I completely agree with this, silliness of temperature sampling aside :)   

I like my space programs to go probe orbiter -> probe lander with return if possible -> manned landing. The fact that I know durn well whether I can get back from a particular body without a robot proof-of-concept is neither here nor there, it's purely to satisfy my inner RPer :rolleyes: 

The only thing I lament is the lack of a probe surface sample option... but then we'd get questions like whether there should be two grades of surface sample; basic for probes, and optimal when gathered by a crew. It would take a hella advanced probe or a lot of time from the ground crew to spot the most interesting looking rock in the landing zone - an kerbonaut would instantly identify the best candidates.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 12/20/2015 at 6:23 PM, FlyingPete said:

This is what I've started to do. With a scientist on board the lander, you can just transmit for some science gain now, then run the experiments again after resetting the goo and materials bay. The science gain is the same (more or less) but you get a portion of it earlier.

If I'm not mistaken, for most experiments  1 Transmit + 1  Return >  1 Return Alone >  1 Transmit Alone , as for most science locations, there's more science that can be retrieved from a single return mission.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, StarStryder said:

Does having a mobile science lab in orbit not allow you to process the physical samples and and transmit the science back?  

No, it creates different "bonus" science out of thin air and gives you effectively infinite science for free, as long as you're willing to wait for it.  It's a completely separate mechanism for getting science, and works side-by-side.

Yes, it's confusing.  Here's a detailed explanation.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Snark said:

No, it creates different "bonus" science out of thin air and gives you effectively infinite science for free, as long as you're willing to wait for it.  It's a completely separate mechanism for getting science, and works side-by-side.

Yes, it's confusing.  Here's a detailed explanation.

 

Wow.  I know it was convoluted but I had no idea.  :confused:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, StarStryder said:

Wow.  I know it was convoluted but I had no idea.  :confused:

Well, it's actually pretty simple.  The whole science-farming thing is so hamstrung with lmitations as to make it useless to anybody who actually wants to play the game as opposed to just warping ahead for years slowly skimming the farmed science.  Since 1.0, I have only found labs necessary for certain station or base contracts.  Otherwise, I just lug them around for roleplaying but don't actually use them.  You can get way more science way faster just picking it up off the ground.  If you do that ruthlessly, you'll finish the tech tree before the lab finishes its 1st batch.  And if you haven't quite finished the tree, the lab's output by that point in time will be insignificant compared to what you need for the next node.  The only way to change this is to have lots of labs employing lots of scientists, which means spending lots of money, and all that money does is work itself out of a job.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, FlyingPete said:

I think the lab will be useful on my mission to Eve (orbit, not landing) and Gilly. At least, it will give the scientists something to do while waiting for the launch window back to Kerbin.

Yep, it's good for that.

In my own games I end up not using the science lab, because it's both too powerful and not powerful enough.  Too powerful, in that it feels "cheaty" (infinite science for free); it's bad enough that I can max out the tech tree on just Mun + Minmus, but add a science lab into the equation and I can max out the tech tree with just a couple of Minmus biomes.  Not powerful enough, in that it's so slow relative to just strip-mining Mun and Minmus for science (as Geschosskopf points out) will do the job faster and more effectively.  So in practice I generally just ignore the lab completely except for station contracts that require one.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, FlyingPete said:

I think the lab will be useful on my mission to Eve (orbit, not landing) and Gilly. At least, it will give the scientists something to do while waiting for the launch window back to Kerbin.

I doubt it.  First off, you can't put much data in a lab to begin with.  A single EVA surface sample will fill it up and, unless your scientists are already fairly leveled up, the time required for the lab to do its thing with a single load of data is a year or so.  So bottom line, the time available during an Eve mission is barely sufficient for the lab to cook even a tiny fraction of all the data you'll collect on the expedition.  Depending on when you start cooking, it might not even finish the 1st batch before you get back home.  Meanwhlle you have to lug the thing around there and back and have 2 scientists doing nothing but cooking data, which means you heed at least a 3rd scientist to collect data in the field and reset Goo and Materials.  IOW, the lab contributes a fair amount to mission bloat without providing any real benefit except role-playing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Geschosskopf said:

I doubt it.  First off, you can't put much data in a lab to begin with.  A single EVA surface sample will fill it up...

Yes and no.  The lab can only hold 500 "data" at one time, but it can store as many science results as you like.  So there's no such thing as "filling up a lab"-- you can stash all your science results in it, and process enough of them to fill it up to the 500 data limit, and then every once in a while top it off as the data gets drained.

2 hours ago, Geschosskopf said:

...the time required for the lab to do its thing with a single load of data is a year or so.  So bottom line, the time available during an Eve mission is barely sufficient for the lab to cook even a tiny fraction of all the data you'll collect on the expedition.  Depending on when you start cooking, it might not even finish the 1st batch before you get back home.

Again, yes and no.  Science labs decay exponentially over time if you leave them alone, so they don't "finish" a "batch."  Best not to think of them as finishing, or as batches.  It's a continuous process that runs at a somewhat constant rate, as long as you have a supply of science.

The processing speed of a lab is proportional to the amount of data stored in it, which means it doesn't count down like a progress bar and then is "done"-- rather, if you leave it alone, it exponentially decays over time.  So yes, if you want to completely "finish" a batch, it takes a ridiculously long time, but that's not the way to use a lab.  Basically, it's never "finished"; if you let it get down to having only a few data points in it, it will be producing science at such a microscopically slow rate that there's really no point.

The right way to use a science lab is to keep it continuously topped off so that it's close to the 500 data limit at all times; that keeps it cooking data at the maximum rate.  If you've got some reasonably high-level scientists (which I expect the OP does-- if you're in orbit of Eve, you must have already gone to Mun/Minmus, so I expect the scientists are at least level 2, possibly 3), and you have a lab that you keep reasonably topped up, then it generates several science points a day.  Not huge, no... but if you're waiting several months for your transfer window back to Kerbin to open up, you can actually generate quite a lot of science in that time.

3 hours ago, Geschosskopf said:

Meanwhlle you have to lug the thing around there and back and have 2 scientists doing nothing but cooking data, which means you heed at least a 3rd scientist to collect data in the field and reset Goo and Materials.

Why need a 3rd scientist?  The science lab operates over days and weeks; sending out a lander or something to gather science just takes a few hours at most.  Two scientists can do just fine for the mission.  Most of the time they're both in the lab.  When you want to gather science, send out one of them in an excursion vehicle.

3 hours ago, Geschosskopf said:

IOW, the lab contributes a fair amount to mission bloat without providing any real benefit except role-playing.

Here's where I agree with you.  :)  All the points I make above notwithstanding:  if you're already in Eve orbit, you've got your hands on enough science that you don't really need the extra science that the lab provides.  You can max out the science tree easily from just Mun and Minmus, if you have the patience to visit all the biomes.  If you're a little impatient and skip some Mun/Minmus biomes, then by the time you've milked Eve orbit dry, not to mention Gilly, that'll top off the tree no problem, even without going down to Eve surface.

So yes, there's little point in the lab in this scenario... except role-playing.  But depending on what the player wants, the role-playing can be important.  It feels kinda neat to think of the busy scientists earning their keep while they wait.  I used science labs myself, for a few times... until the RP aspect got dull for me and the fact that I don't need 'em in practical terms made them simply not worth the mission bloat to me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This thread is quite old. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one.

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...