Gojira1000

How borked is Eve's atmosphere in 1.05?

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Or is it? Before I go any deeper down the rabbit-hole of designing a kerballed land-there-and-back, I'm reading a lot of conflicting views on whether it's do-able in 1.05.

Thoughts?

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Definitely do-able. Aerocapture is do-able too. 

In 1.0.5 you want to make the whole craft behind one (or more) heatshield(s). That's an interesting challenge right there. 

Or you could wait for 1.1 and the amazing expanding heatshield. 

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11 minutes ago, Foxster said:

Definitely do-able. Aerocapture is do-able too. 

In 1.0.5 you want to make the whole craft behind one (or more) heatshield(s). That's an interesting challenge right there. 

Or you could wait for 1.1 and the amazing expanding heatshield. 

Sounds good. Will continue to engineer madness, then (the whole mission depends on heatshields (and yeah I want Porkjet's inflato-shield so badly right now) and aerocapture). Thanks Foxster!

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I just completed a Kerballed mission to Eve (off again). I did not aerobrake to get into obit around Eve though, rather I used what was left of my transfer stage to burn to an orbit of around 110,000 by 100,000, then burned what was left of my transfer until I had a PE of 45,000. After decoupling the transfer stage, everything, and I mean everything was behind overlapping heat shields. The descent is a bit of a white knuckled affair, with the heat bars getting closer to full than I would have liked. 

Long story short, Eve continues to be a rather interesting engineering challenge, but certainly not borked... just a bit of a "boss fight". 

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expanding heat shield? Is there a link to a picture or anything that I could read up more about it? 

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1 hour ago, ill1176 said:

expanding heat shield? Is there a link to a picture or anything that I could read up more about it? 

What we are getting is something extremely similar to what is shown in this (outdated) thread: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/27103-inflatable-heat-shield-test-pic-heavy/

But it's the same principle, a 2,5m part (which you can land with if you have long landing legs or if you build smart), that expend to a 10m one.

Edited by Francois424

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1 hour ago, ill1176 said:

expanding heat shield? Is there a link to a picture or anything that I could read up more about it? 

It was mentioned in the Devnote Tuesday before this week's. You should really read those. They're a weekly event as far as I'm concerned :)

HFrMERT.png

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Is it much easier to take off now than before - or since .21 for that matter?

Never got to try it myself. Always busy with something else ...

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1 hour ago, KerbMav said:

Is it much easier to take off now than before - or since .21 for that matter?

Never got to try it myself. Always busy with something else ...

It's not much easier now, no. As well as the fairly easy bit of having enough dV, you also have to minimise drag and worry about heatploding on the way up - as well as the way down. 

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On 12/24/2015 at 10:33 PM, 5thHorseman said:

It was mentioned in the Devnote Tuesday before this week's. You should really read those. They're a weekly event as far as I'm concerned :)

HFrMERT.png

sorry about that I read them religiously every week, that must have just missed my view. thank you for pointing them out and giving me pictures! very helpful

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A powered descent (with or without heatshields) is still doable--bring a few thousand dV in the first stage of your lander and burn as needed to keep below the heating redline. Of course you'll then most likely need to refuel on the surface, either with ISRU on the lander or on a support ship you leave behind. 

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2 hours ago, Kuzzter said:

Of course you'll then most likely need to refuel on the surface, either with ISRU on the lander or on a support ship you leave behind. 

I've had several goes at this.

Remembering that an appropriate Eve ascent rocket is already quite long and pointy, and that landing something long and point is already difficult - any attempt to place an ISRU and the associated components vertically underneath is going to end in tears. You could of course have a separate lander, which I've seen several successful missions do. But that assumes you want to use KAS because there's no stock way of transferring fuel, except to try and align docking ports on the ground, which is well known to be painful. You can start trying to built our landing legs of girders and small tanks radially, but the whole thing quickly starts to weigh a lot more than a grey tank with a Vector (remember the ISRU is already 4.25T on its own), which is capable of making the landing without all the headache.

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1 hour ago, technion said:

I've had several goes at this.

Remembering that an appropriate Eve ascent rocket is already quite long and pointy, and that landing something long and point is already difficult - any attempt to place an ISRU and the associated components vertically underneath is going to end in tears. You could of course have a separate lander, which I've seen several successful missions do. But that assumes you want to use KAS because there's no stock way of transferring fuel, except to try and align docking ports on the ground, which is well known to be painful. You can start trying to built our landing legs of girders and small tanks radially, but the whole thing quickly starts to weigh a lot more than a grey tank with a Vector (remember the ISRU is already 4.25T on its own), which is capable of making the landing without all the headache.

Just attach the refiner + ore Tank  (or 2 of them) Radially on a decoupler, use them to put landing gears and maybe more parachute.  

Just jettison them before of at the same time you take off.  No sense bringing it back home and penalizing your ascent.

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32 minutes ago, Francois424 said:

Just attach the refiner + ore Tank  (or 2 of them) Radially on a decoupler, use them to put landing gears and maybe more parachute.  

Just jettison them before of at the same time you take off.  No sense bringing it back home and penalizing your ascent.

I tried that path too. It takes three of them to land with any stability, and at that point, you're looking at 12.75T of ISRU's, and then you need to deal with drills, panels and everything else. I'm not saying it can't work, but it becomes a lot more weight very quickly.

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6 hours ago, technion said:

there's no stock way of transferring fuel, except to try and align docking ports on the ground, which is well known to be painful. 

Well, I did it :) It was indeed painful, but I did it. A docking klaw also would have worked in stock.

 

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Hi all,

Not sure if this is phantom physics of the craft or the magic of Eves atmosphere.

http://imgur.com/a/7f70e

Far from aero-braking, Eve is increasing my Ap. Sure, my Pe is coming down, but I don't think that's going to help much...

I know, I should have packed more...

--Minimalist

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So if I sent a probe to orbit eve, what would I need? It has one heat shield that I think everything fits behind. What altitude should I go for? Will I need engines?

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Just an FYI: Areodynamic nose cones work on eve.

Also, the mod Deadly recently is a very good mod full of heat shields.

Edited by Dr.K Kerbal
If your only engine is a booster, all your problems start looking like gravity.

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5 hours ago, Choctofliatrio2.0 said:

So if I sent a probe to orbit eve, what would I need? It has one heat shield that I think everything fits behind. What altitude should I go for? Will I need engines?

If everything is behind the heatshield then you can aerocapture at a Pe of 60-65km from interplanetary speeds, might need a couple of passes. Otherwise start from 100km and set the Pe to 40km.  

You will only need some engines for the de-orbit burn. If you use RCS engines for that then they can be behind the heatshield, otherwise use some engines and dispose of them. 

Use some airbrakes and rotate them at placement so they are completely behind the heatshield before and after deployment. Plus some 'chutes. 

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On 12/30/2015 at 5:12 AM, Kuzzter said:

Well, I did it :) It was indeed painful, but I did it. A docking klaw also would have worked in stock.

That was magnificent! I especially like the in-character save-file editing. :D

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