Do You Consider MechJeb Cheating?

[WinkAllKerb'']

Not sure about mechjeb, but Nova posting here is definetly cheating ; )

[tater]

While I've never even tried MJ, I'll add another heresy, I think that kerbal pilots should be able to fly based upon their skill levels. Not "mech" Jeb, just "Jeb." That's almost a requirement for a more far-reaching notion of career mode, IMO.

[Matuchkin]

Imagine:

"Baikonur to Soyuz. We don't care about your flight anyway. Here's a joystick, have fun flying your plane or whatever. *grabs a drink and a plate filled with herring*"

No, Mechjeb is not cheating. It does, in fact, make the game much more realistic due to its guidance capabilities (not to mention the launch trajectories). As long as it isn't used for manned landings.

[GeneCash]

No, I consider it the only way to play the game. My coordination SUCKS (which is one reason I play KSP and not, say, a first-person-shooter) so trying to stay on a maneuver node during a burn or wobble into orbit is an exercise in extreme frustration.

Landing on anything would be just about out of the question. I have flopped about on Gilly & Ike like a dead fish and called that a "landing" and after MANY MANY hours and attempts I can now land on Minmus with about 15% chance of no explosions or rocket disassembly. That is not "fun" as I define it.

If it wasn't for MechJeb, I would have said "f*ck this for a lark" long ago, regardless of my excitement about it being an excellent space game.

I have discovered that a gamepad with nice thumbsticks makes things a lot easier though, and I can fly planes now.

[LaytheDragon]

9 hours ago, Whovian41110 said:

Most real rockets are flown entirely by internal guidance computers.  I am a new player of KSP and the only way I can get things in an even partially similar orbit is with MechJeb.  Would that be considered cheating?  

I consider MechJeb as cheating in respect to doing things one can't otherwise do due to lack of skill(it makes it much easier, which is why I daren't try it), but I am okay with (others, not me) using it if they actually could accomplish the same feats done with MechJeb by themselves.

[Skorpychan]

I feel it's cheating. I don't ask it to do things I can't do myself, at least any more. I used to use it for rendezvous and docking because I just didn't understand how. Then I realised how it was working by watching mechjeb waste all my monopropellant, so I took over docking.

And recently I learned that I just can't be bothered with doing rendezvous myself. I CAN do it, but it's so much easier to just tell mechjeb to do it and save the brainache.

[Javster]

The main sentiment is that it's a singleplayer game, so you play it your way, if you think it's cheating then don't use it.

[NovaSilisko]

If you asked a group of people who actually calculate the optimal trajectories for real rockets: "given manual control, could you fly this vehicle to orbit?", I wonder what they would answer.

Edited December 26, 2015 by NovaSilisko

[razark]

44 minutes ago, NovaSilisko said:

If you asked a group of people who actually calculate the optimal trajectories for real rockets: "given manual control, could you fly this vehicle to orbit?", I wonder what they would answer.

Probably "No."

Now, if you ask some of the people that ride the rockets, you'll probably get a different answer.

[cubinator]

I personally don't use MechJeb, because I like flying. If you like watching your ships fly themselves, go for it. If you're doing a challenge and the rules say "no mechjeb," then it's cheating. But in any other case, no, nothing is cheating unless you feel like it's cheating. I personally never use alt-F12 on legitimate missions, but sometimes I derp around with it just for fun. Use whatever mods you like, I don't care.

[WinkAllKerb'']

2 hours ago, NovaSilisko said:

If you asked a group of people who actually calculate the optimal trajectories for real rockets: "given manual control, could you fly this vehicle to orbit?", I wonder what they would answer.

yeah it's like asking if all the people involved in a single space rocket launch from each single part design, production, to assembling can pilot that rocket ... they can ... no doubt ... pffft & ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edited December 27, 2015 by WinkAllKerb''

[Bloody_looser]

Using third-party autopilot in piloting-heavy game is like using aimhack in FPS.

MJ is cheating. Get over it. Stop searching for petty excuses and cheat with your head held high.

[Matuchkin]

I say that the mod makes the game more realistic, no matter the skill level of the player and no matter his/ her coordination. Heck, it might as well be renamed "avionics mod" and expanded on! (Not to actually imply on that, just giving an image of its realism)

[Matuchkin]

On 26/12/2015 at 7:41 AM, r4pt0r said:

I legitimately consider any mod cheating

Let's say that NASA or Roscosmos started off by using garbage cans and hoses (which they obviously didn't), how would you feel if they upgraded to actual rockets? Because that's what mods do to KSP.

-FASA

-Tantares

-Tantares LV

-Contares

-SLS parts pack

-Bluedog design bureau

-many more other mods...

Also, in KSP, astronauts are apparently left alone in their ships, with no directions and their controls to use for their whole journey. They are immortal and require nothing to live. Their solar system is ten times smaller than real-life. Aerodynamics apparently do not apply in their system.

 

But of course, removing all those problems will be cheating! what am I even talking about?!

Also: 

"when you call them out on their flagrant cheating." - r4pt0r on the topic of mechjeb (and any other mod, as stated in the previous quote)

Everyone! Assemble! Let's topple NASA! They're not using trash found lying by the side of the road! THEY'RE USING AVIONICS IN THEIR ROCKETS! THEY'RE CHEATING!

Edited December 27, 2015 by 073198681

[WinkAllKerb'']

5 hours ago, NovaSilisko said:

Hell - while this thread is still extant, allow me to add to my heresy.

on a totally side slide topic note, i vote for a you tuber to make nyan song from this sentence ; )

[kotomikun]

Strictly speaking, any mods that make anything easier or add any new parts are "cheating." But in a game with no win condition, what difference does it make? I don't use Mechjeb, but I use practically every informational mod there is because I hate guesswork, and I've used VesselMover to teleport rovers over long distances because I didn't want to spend hours driving them there manually. The only wrong way to play KSP is whatever way is not fun for you.

I wouldn't even say it makes you learn less; on the contrary, Mechjeb and Kerbal Engineer teach you a lot of orbital mechanics stuff that the stock game rarely mentions (inclination, eccentricity, delta-v and TWR...). Most players probably never knew about transfer windows until they encountered a mod that calculates them. And so on.

[Inverurie Jones]

Re. the OP: Not at all. It's a non-competitive game with no governing body and no official rules. It simply isn't possible to 'cheat'.

[Xyrus]

Well, considering the game itself is a "cheat", I don't see how MJ could be considered "cheating". The developers decided what they thought would make good gameplay for the majority of players, and minimized/eliminated anything they thought would detract from it.

Now some think that they went to far and made the game too easy, hence we have things like RSS, FAR, TAC, etc. to make the game more difficult. Some think that the developers overlooked providing critical info when it comes to planning missions, hence why we have things like KER. Others only like doing certain things and don't want to be bothered with the rest, so use MJ for all the "boring" bits. It's all personal preference and how you want to play the game. Since there is no way to "win" the game, it doesn't really matter how you play.

The developers didn't provide a means to mod the game for "cheating". The provided so the community/user could modify/improve/tailor the game to how they want to play it. Saying modding KSP is cheating is sort of like saying modding Minecraft is cheating.

[Piper]

I swear, there must be a "do you consider mechjeb cheating?" thread every two weeks now.

My personal opinion is that it is only "cheating" if use it for things that you don't know how to do yourself without it.  But with that said, it isn't a rule I would apply to others, only in my own gameplay.  I use it for tons of things (particularly creating manuever nodes), but they are all things that I know how to do without it, I just have done them so many times I find them tedious like making manuever nodes for changing inclination, or circurlizing, or adjusting my trajectory to intercept a target at a certain time, and doing the old-fashioned way kindof takes away from the gameplay.  I don't really use the autopilot much, for better or for worse I generally don't trust mechjeb autopiloting.  I used it once for a problematic docking, and it completely butchered it, so since then I just control the spacecraft myself.  The exeption to that being using mechjeb to control the spacecraft's orientation during things like docking and landing.  And food for thought, just think of all insane amounts of automation NASA and other space agencies use.  I've yet to hear any accuse NASA of cheating (moon-hoaxers notwithstanding).

 

 

 

[mythbusters844]

....sigh...

Edited December 27, 2015 by mythbusters844
So much for BBCode being formatted correctly

[ForsakenVoyager]

Yes it's cheating. Any changes done by a third party that makes the game easier than Squad built the game is cheating. Cheating the game and cheating yourself. But Squad itself doesn't see it that way so your good. 

[NovaSilisko]

@mythbusters844 That image needs "this image posted" added to it somewhere in there.

[linuxgurugamer]

Give it up.  People who think it's cheating will not be swayed by any arguments here, they are merely trolling and flamebait.

If you think Mechjeb is cheating, then don't use it  

But don't disparage other people who do use it.  They are not competing with you, so it really doesn't matter to you and your game if they use Mechjeb or not.

Request to moderators:  Please lock this thread, it's annoying

[ForsakenVoyager]

1 minute ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Give it up.  People who think it's cheating will not be swayed by any arguments here, they are merely trolling and flamebait.

If you think Mechjeb is cheating, then don't use it  

But don't disparage other people who do use it.  They are not competing with you, so it really doesn't matter to you and your game if they use Mechjeb or not.

Request to moderators:  Please lock this thread, it's annoying

What this guy says. I think it's cheating so I won't use it. Others don't, so they will use it. I'm not mad at anybody for using it.  

I just chose not too. 

[r4pt0r]

The NASA uses mechjeb argument is bad because this is a game not reallife. we dont have to rhythmically tap a key to breathe. As a game it should be different from real life.