Whovian41110

Do You Consider MechJeb Cheating?

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This discussion keeps coming up because people are insecure and are seeking some kind of validation. The ONLY way to end them is make mechjeb absolutely stock. Once its stock this discussion stops.

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As I've said earlier I haven't used it, I enjoy flying myself too much, but each to their own.

I don't really like using mods at all, no particular reason, just not my thing (though I do use KER and KAC).  That said I do think about trying Mechjeb, to see how it works and maybe learn how it does some stuff so I can find out how to do it myself.

I can't say overall that I'm in favour of any 'autopilot' being in stock, but I can see some benefits of having one.

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I know right now i am in a sandbox save with remote tech. And trust me, my LKO is soon to filled with hundreds of small comms satellites for my network. And mech jeb could not be a more perfect tool for this. I just stick a payload on a launcher and type in orbit altitude and inclination and send it on its way. All i have to do is deploy fairings and finish the orbit burn. is it cheating?

No. Why? Because this game was literately made for ease of modification. Squad knew that they could not possibly produce our dreams of a spaceflight sim. So they made very kid friendly(witch is spectacular) and let the community do what we want to the game. It is ok to modify the game in any way you want. Deep in its core it is a sandbox game after all. So everyone's experience is different and that is really the way it should stay.

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On 1/1/2016 at 0:10 AM, pandaman said:

As I've said earlier I haven't used it, I enjoy flying myself too much, but each to their own.

I don't really like using mods at all, no particular reason, just not my thing (though I do use KER and KAC).  That said I do think about trying Mechjeb, to see how it works and maybe learn how it does some stuff so I can find out how to do it myself.

I can't say overall that I'm in favour of any 'autopilot' being in stock, but I can see some benefits of having one.

I agree with you. Most KAC features and KER feautres should be stock. But even I use MJ quite often, I don't think it should be stock (but some data features are missing from KER). "Precise node-like" and "Execute node" could be added though.

MJ has 3 man advantages

  • Helping new players to smooth the learning curve
  • Doing stuff you don't like to do
  • Doing some repetitive tasks (such as my 13 launches mission to Jool back in beta - even with MJ, it was looooonnnnnggg)

 

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I find it even more boring. At least flying the rocket is engaging, albeit repetitive.

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I agree, TeddyDD, Not again. Talk about beating a dead horse. Is using an autopilot while flying cross county in an airplane cheating? No. Is using MechJeb cheating to reduce your workload so you can enjoy the game? No. KSP is fun however you decide to play it. If you decide to play KSP to decrease the surplus population of Kerbals, knock yourself out. Nothing you do is cheating. Everything is legal. Remember...

Everything is Awsome

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Well, TBH I don't see why some people still cling to the idea that using a autopilot is cheating in any way. People, just boot your game and notice that your stock vanilla install already has a ( admitedly not ideal ) autopilot for a good bunch of versions. This kind of discusion could make some sense years ago, but now it doesn't ...

Edited by r_rolo1

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Bah, cheating implies some sort of competition. KSP being a single-player sandbox, who cares.

If you play career with MechJeb, the science unlocks mean you need to learn to do stuff yourself anyway - later on the automation of routine manoeuvres kills much of the (IMO) pointless calculator-grinding and long-burn babysitting.
The only thing that feels too easy to me is that SmartASS makes the pilot experience/skill system redundant right from the start, I'd love to see MJ linked to pilot skill somehow.

As others have said, again and again, play the game however you like. I'm not competing with anyone, so I really don't care what you consider "cheating".

Edited by steve_v

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On ‎12‎/‎26‎/‎2015 at 5:54 AM, Whovian41110 said:

Most real rockets are flown entirely by internal guidance computers.  I am a new player of KSP and the only way I can get things in an even partially similar orbit is with MechJeb.  Would that be considered cheating?  

I fail to understand why the mods continue to allow such threads to exist, being as there are probably at least 50 asking this same question if you care to search.

But since this one hasn't been locked yet (ahem, mods....), I'll answer it the same as I have all the others.  If you don't use MJ, you're just being willfully obstinant in a misguided attempt to prove your machismo in a game where you can't impress anybody who knows what real life or RSS or Orbiter is like.

Edited by Geschosskopf
typo

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Time for me to be blunt. It truly needs to be made stock. Then and only then will this "is it cheating" nonsense stop. Besides that, who cares? No, really? Who cares? I mean come on, why are people seeking validation for their point of view on the subject? Why does it even matter?

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When is the last time an astronaut manually flew a rocket from pad into orbit?   and with a keyboard?

MechJeb is more realistic than stock.  Granted its good to know how to do everything manually, but in terms of anything resembling real life...  

 

Manual flight is more cheaty than mechjeb, because you can manipulate the rocket on ascent in ways no astronaut could from a perspective literally nobody has ever had. 

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12 hours ago, AlamoVampire said:

Time for me to be blunt. It truly needs to be made stock. Then and only then will this "is it cheating" nonsense stop.

I find your lack of faith (in forum trolls) disturbing. 

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13 hours ago, Geschosskopf said:

If you don't use MJ, you're just being willfully obstinant in a misguided attempt to prove your machismo

All this time I just thought I enjoyed manually flying the rockets. Thanks for setting me straight! You just stay classy dude, I'll be over here "obstinantely" trying to figure out how I ended up "willfully" infected with "a strong sense of masculine pride."

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I think implicating that my way of playing the game is better than how someone else plays it is cheating.

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Using time warp is cheating more than using MechJeb is cheating. 

But, as has been said about 30 bajillion times already, play your game your way, there is no cheating. 

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On 26/12/2015 at 1:54 PM, r4pt0r said:

Fair, hadn't meant to. My only point was that people get really offended when you call them out on their flagrant cheating.

It's not cheating, though. Since the game is not multiplayer and the only long-scale goals are the ones that players set for themselves, there's noone to cheat, and as such there is no cheating.

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2 minutes ago, Torgo said:

Using time warp is cheating more than using MechJeb is cheating. 

Vaguely off-topic, but how is timewarp cheating to your mind?

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1 minute ago, wasmic said:

Since the game is not multiplayer and the only long-scale goals are the ones that players set for themselves, there's noone to cheat, and as such there is no cheating.

I think you're confusing single player games and zero player games. :wink:

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5 minutes ago, Red Iron Crown said:

Vaguely off-topic, but how is timewarp cheating to your mind?

Time moves at a set rate. Speeding up the computer to be faster than real life is cheating. 

Granted, it's a needed form of cheating, but it's still cheating. I've done a real time Apollo 11 recreation using Orbiter, and ye Gods after about an hour I really, really wanted to cheat. I settled for watching movies on DVD player... also cheating, since there were no DVDs in an Apollo capsule. 

Also cheating, I left the computer to use the bathroom. I have no integrity :(

Edited by Torgo

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14 hours ago, Geschosskopf said:

I fail to understand why the mods continue to allow such threads to exist, being as there are probably at least 50 asking this same question if you care to search.

But since this one hasn't been locked yet (ahem, mods....), I'll answer it the same as I have all the others.  If you don't use MJ, you're just being willfully obstinant in a misguided attempt to prove your machismo in a game where you can't impress anybody who knows what real life or RSS or Orbiter is like.

Excuse me? You're just as bad about this as the other side of the coin. People should play this game the way they want, whatever that means. If people think it's more fun to fly their rockets themselves, who are you to deny them that pleasure?

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14 hours ago, Geschosskopf said:

(...)  If you don't use MJ, you're just being willfully obstinant in a misguided attempt to prove your machismo in a game where you can't impress anybody who knows what real life or RSS or Orbiter is like.

Well, you can argue with some veracity that MechJeb is closer to reality than the current stock autopilot, but RL ships don't have anything resembling Mechjeb ATM ( especially given the fact that Mechjeb has high grade intel about the ship situation that RL ships don't ;) ). At best you can say that the space programs as a whole has tools that, all condensed, are somewhat equivalent to Mechjeb, because if we go ship level reality is closer to kOS than to Mechjeb ATM ( the Orion capsule will probably be more like MechJeb, though ;) )

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I'm going to attempt to say something sensible. This usually does not work out for me, but I do have my moments. 

The question of whether it's cheating or not is irrelevant--not just because it's a single player game, but because if you and I have different mods installed we are not playing the same game! It's analogous to playing different versions of KSP. Suppose you're playing stock 0.90 and I'm playing stock 1.0.5. I don't think that anyone could argue that either of us is cheating. However you are going to have a much easier time, say, aerobraking into Eve orbit than I am, while I am able to enjoy lower dV to Kerbin orbit requirements as well as some useful new parts. This only becomes relevant if we try to compare accomplishments. And pretty much everyone acknowledges that you can't compare accomplishments across different versions--that's why Eve Rocks, Jool-5 and some other long-running challenges reset the leaderboards or even entire threads after certain game updates.

Back to Mechjeb vs Not-Mechjeb: You can go either way, for lots of valid reasons enummerated in this and all the other threads that came before it. I think most of us agree that those reasons are all valid and a personal choice for the player. The only conflict comes if a MJ and Not-MJ player try to compare piloting accomplishments, which they can't because they are playing a different game with respect to piloting. They can compare their ship designs, of course, and some other things--but come on, it's no more cheating to play a differently modded game than it is to play one game that's different from another for any other reason at all.

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