[1.8.1 - 1.12.3] Realistic Atmospheres

[OhioBob]

There's a problem between Realistic Atmospheres and KSP versions 1.1.1 and 1.1.2.  While the modded atmospheres of Eve, Duna, Jool and Laythe seemed to load up just fine, Kerbin ends up not having any atmosphere at all.  I've yet to find the problem but, in the meantime, I've removed Kerbin's atmosphere from Realistic Atmospheres so that the stock atmosphere loads by default.  The new release is Realistic Atmospheres version 1.1.2.

Hopefully this solution is just a temporary fix.  Since Kerbin's stock atmosphere is not substantially different from the modded one, they should behave similarly.  Once I get the problem solved, there will be an updated release. 

[nationwide]

@OhioBob I ran into that and I updated BodyLoader (I was tipped off because the dll included in your package is 16kb and the one in the BodyLoader repo is 33kb) and that solved my problem, using it wonderfully on 1.1.2

[CaptRobau]

For anyone interested, with the generous help of @OhioBob I converted OPMs atmospheres to this more realistic model. So this mod and mine should work very well together now.

 

[OhioBob]

5 hours ago, nationwide said:

@OhioBob I ran into that and I updated BodyLoader (I was tipped off because the dll included in your package is 16kb and the one in the BodyLoader repo is 33kb) and that solved my problem, using it wonderfully on 1.1.2

Where did you find that file?  When I download BodyLoader.dll from @NathanKell GitHub site, I get the same 16kb, version 0.2.0.0 that I've been using.

 

2 hours ago, CaptRobau said:

For anyone interested, with the generous help of @OhioBob I converted OPMs atmospheres to this more realistic model. So this mod and mine should work very well together now.

 

Can't wait to get OPM installed.  It is a terrific expansion to the stock game.
 

Edited May 2, 2016 by OhioBob

[rosenkranz]

I noticed that moons and what not don't have phases, or at least you really can't tell.  But I recall a mod that gave them very thin atmos and with the scattering they looked glorious.  Could this be used to give said moons very thin atmos for that purpose?

[Svm420]

6 minutes ago, rosenkranz said:

I noticed that moons and what not don't have phases, or at least you really can't tell.  But I recall a mod that gave them very thin atmos and with the scattering they looked glorious.  Could this be used to give said moons very thin atmos for that purpose?

The mod is called realistic atmospheres for a reason   

The mod scatterer and EVE do help with this though.

[rosenkranz]

correct, it is simply assigning atmo parameters to the moons and I don't know how to even begin to do that.  Was wondering if anyone else had the same thought and had already come up with said parameters

[OhioBob]

16 hours ago, rosenkranz said:

I noticed that moons and what not don't have phases, or at least you really can't tell.  But I recall a mod that gave them very thin atmos and with the scattering they looked glorious.  Could this be used to give said moons very thin atmos for that purpose?

I know BodyLoader can be used to changes physical and orbital parameters, but I don't think it can change visual settings.  You'll probably have better luck using one of the visual enhancement mods.

[nationwide]

19 hours ago, OhioBob said:

Where did you find that file?  When I download BodyLoader.dll from @NathanKell GitHub site, I get the same 16kb, version 0.2.0.0 that I've been using.

 

Can't wait to get OPM installed.  It is a terrific expansion to the stock game.
 

That concerns me, because I initially was positive I got it from the correct repository, but it's pretty clearly not the right one, and so I'm wondering what DLL this is on my comp haha. I wonder if it's not loading realistic atmospheres correctly. Is there any quick easy way to test if it is?

 

Edit:

 

When I go to his repo (can't post link sorry) and drill down to GameData/BodyLoader/Plugins/ and right click save as on BodyLoader.dll it is 32.5kb on my computer..  But when I left click BodyLoader.dll it tells me its 15.5kb.. So I've got no idea what's going on haha

Edited May 3, 2016 by nationwide

[OhioBob]

2 hours ago, nationwide said:

That concerns me, because I initially was positive I got it from the correct repository, but it's pretty clearly not the right one, and so I'm wondering what DLL this is on my comp haha. I wonder if it's not loading realistic atmospheres correctly. Is there any quick easy way to test if it is?

Edit:

When I go to his repo (can't post link sorry) and drill down to GameData/BodyLoader/Plugins/ and right click save as on BodyLoader.dll it is 32.5kb on my computer..  But when I left click BodyLoader.dll it tells me its 15.5kb.. So I've got no idea what's going on haha

Which version of Realistic Atmospheres are you using?  Below is a summary of how the different versions of KSP work with the different versions of RA.

KSP 1.0.5  +  RA 1.0.0  --->  Works correctly, all planets have mod atmospheres.
KSP 1.1.0  +  RA 1.0.0  --->  Doesn't work, all planets have stock atmospheres.
KSP 1.1.0  +  RA 1.1.0 or 1.1.1  --->  Works correctly, all planets have mod atmospheres.
KSP 1.1.1 or 1.1.2  +  RA 1.1.1  --->  Eve, Duna, Jool & Laythe have mod atmospheres, Kerbin has no atmosphere.
KSP 1.1.1 or 1.1.2  +  RA 1.1.2  --->  Eve, Duna, Jool & Laythe have mod atmospheres, Kerbin has stock atmosphere.

So if you're using RA 1.1.2 then Kerbin will have an atmosphere, it's just the stock atmosphere (which is a compromise I made to get a useable version out there).  However, if you're using RA 1.1.1 with KSP 1.1.2 and you're getting a Kerbin atmosphere, then I'd like to know what you're doing differently because that combination isn't working for me.

The easiest way to see which atmospheres are loaded is to go to the Tracking Station and check the atmosphere heights in planet information panel.  For Kerbin both atmospheres are 70 km, so check the temperature instead.  If 287 K then the atmosphere is stock, if 288 K then it is the mod atmosphere.

[Storywalker4]

Question: are there any EVE packs that have been adjusted for this mod? Because I'd love to use this mod, but I can't bring myself to part with my clouds, seeing coulds before I reach the atmosphere and going over half the atmosphere before high-level clouds on Jool/OPM giants would bug me to no end. Also, what exactly are the changes this makes to OPM, it doesn't say here or on the other mod page.

[OhioBob]

1 hour ago, Storywalker4 said:

Question: are there any EVE packs that have been adjusted for this mod? Because I'd love to use this mod, but I can't bring myself to part with my clouds, seeing coulds before I reach the atmosphere and going over half the atmosphere before high-level clouds on Jool/OPM giants would bug me to no end. Also, what exactly are the changes this makes to OPM, it doesn't say here or on the other mod page.

As far as I know, none of the visual packs released to date have been adjusted for this mod.  However, it's my understanding that the creator of KSPRC plans to incorporate Realistic Atmospheres into a future release (at least that's what we've talked about).  KSPRC has yet to be updated for KSP 1.1+, though I plan to install it once it is.  Up to this point I haven't used many visual enhancement mods, so I can't say whether or not you'll experience any odd visual effects when using RA with other addons.

In OPM the surface temperatures and pressures are unchanged from the original values.  However, curves have been added that produce small temperature variations due to latitude, time of day, and eccentricity of orbit.  The greatest change is in the heights of the atmospheres.  The main thing that RA does is it computes realistic values for the atmospheric scale heights, and then allows the atmospheres to fade away in a real life fashion.  When the same methods and standards used to develop RA were applied to OPM, the atmosphere heights came out to:  Sarnus 580 km, Urlum 325 km, Neidon 260 km, Tekto 95 km, and Thatmo 35 km.

 

[NathanKell]

@OhioBob the reason BodyLoader isn't doing anything with Kerbin is that there is no Kerbin node in your cfg.

[OhioBob]

1 hour ago, NathanKell said:

@OhioBob the reason BodyLoader isn't doing anything with Kerbin is that there is no Kerbin node in your cfg.

Yeah, I deleted it on purpose because it wasn't working.  By deleting Kerbin from the cfg, we at least get the stock atmosphere.  When using the cfg containing a Kerbin node, I get a Kerbin that has no atmosphere at all.

[NathanKell]

@OhioBob: Ah! Sorry, I totally misunderstood. Oops. Been a bit scattered of late.

I'll try it with the node added back in and try to figure out what's breaking.

Ya, ok, repro'd the issue. Trying with just a recompile for 1.1.2, if that fails too I'll do some debugging.

[NathanKell]

@OhioBob yeah, ok, the issue is that Kerbin's orbit has no eccentricity whatsoever, which means the eccentricityTemperatureBiasCurve is passed 0 divided by 0 which blows everything up.

 

If you don't include eccentricityTemperatureBiasCurve in the cfg for any bodies with 0 eccentricity you should be fine.

[OhioBob]

2 hours ago, NathanKell said:

@OhioBob yeah, ok, the issue is that Kerbin's orbit has no eccentricity whatsoever, which means the eccentricityTemperatureBiasCurve is passed 0 divided by 0 which blows everything up.

If you don't include eccentricityTemperatureBiasCurve in the cfg for any bodies with 0 eccentricity you should be fine.

You're awesome, man.  That fixed it.   I might have been able to eventually figure that out on my own, but not without a lot of trial and error.  I can't thank you enough.

Laythe works despite having 0 eccentricity, but I presume that's because moons use the eccentricity of their parent planet?

I'll be releasing a new version shortly.
 

Edited May 6, 2016 by OhioBob

[OhioBob]

Realistic Atmospheres version 1.1.3 is now available.

Kerbin's modded atmosphere has been reinstalled.  Now fully compatible with KSP 1.1.2.

[Gnoyze]

On 5/6/2016 at 1:43 AM, OhioBob said:

Realistic Atmospheres version 1.1.3 is now available.

Kerbin's modded atmosphere has been reinstalled.  Now fully compatible with KSP 1.1.2.

Sweet.

[Table]

Does this work with RSS?

[NathanKell]

RSS already has realistic atmospheres. Rather by definition. Especially since OhioBob wrote the curves.

[OhioBob]

5 hours ago, Table said:

Does this work with RSS?

 

RSS already uses realistic atmospheric models, as does OPM.  Therefore, if you play RSS, then you don't need to add anything to have realistic atmospheres.   If you play stock + OPM, then I would recommend that you also add RA.  The OPM atmospheres are already realistic, and the addition of RA will modify the stock planets to the same standard.

Although RSS uses realistic atmospheres, you will find that the outermost portion of the atmospheres feel differently they do in either RA or OPM.

In RA and OPM, the atmospheres are terminated once they reach the point where aerodynamic drag and heating becomes insignificant.  If you enter an atmosphere in RA or OPM while traveling at interplanetary speeds, it will only be a matter of seconds before you start to see a plasma trail.  This was done on purpose because, first and foremost, it is a game and it is supposed to be fun.  I wanted realism but not at the expense of having long periods of boring inactivity.  I tried to strike a balance between realism and game action.  I think the original game designers did a good job of this with Kerbin's stock atmosphere, so I tried to model the other atmospheres similarly.

For RSS, on the other hand, I leaned much further towards realism.  In think that many of the people who play RSS are realism junkies, so that's the direction I went.  To force the use of higher and more realistic orbits, the atmospheres are extended much farther into space.  As a result, the atmospheres have very thin outer regions where the aerodynamic effects are very small.  When you experience a high-speed encounter in RSS, it might take minutes before you see much of anything happening.  But that's the way it is in real life, so that's the way it is in RSS.

[Marsu69]

Hey there.

Do you guys know if this mod is compatible with Sigma Dimension ?

Thanks

[OhioBob]

On ‎6‎/‎4‎/‎2016 at 11:15 PM, Marsu69 said:

Do you guys know if this mod is compatible with Sigma Dimension ?

From the experiments that I've run, Sigma Dimensions and Realistic Atmospheres peacefully coexist with each other but do not fully cooperate.  By that I mean that KSP seems to run fine with both installed, but not all of the changes I asked Sigma Dimensions to make were implemented.  For instance, I could use Sigma's Resize, Rescale, dayLengthMultiplier, and geeASLmultiplier parameters to change the planet's physical properties.  But using the Atmosphere, atmoASL, and tempASL parameters resulted in no change to the atmospheres.

I believe to problem may be that Sigma Dimensions uses Kopernicus, while Realistic Atmospheres uses BodyLoader.  From my experiments in the past, I've found that whatever changes Bodyloader makes appear to overwrite what Kopernicus does.  In other words, Sigma/Kopernius can, for instance, factor the height of an atmosphere to whatever you want, but then BodyLoader is going to come along and change it to whatever is in RealisticAtmospheres.cfg.  All the Sigma parameters that did not produce a change (Atmosphere, atmoASL, and tempASL) are parameters that are also used in RealisticAtmospheres.cfg.

I think that in order to have Realistic Atmospheres and Sigma Dimensions fully cooperate with each other, Realistic Atmospheres would have to be rewritten to use Kopernicus instead of BodyLoader.  I have mixed feelings about whether that would be a good idea or not.  Does anyone have any strong opinions on whether Realistic Atmospheres should stay as it is, or should it be converted to a Kopernicus cfg?

 

Edited June 6, 2016 by OhioBob

[zengei]

On 6/5/2016 at 1:57 PM, OhioBob said:

Does anyone have any strong opinions on whether Realistic Atmospheres should stay as it is, or should it be converted to a Kopernicus cfg?

Well as someone that's had my eye on this mod for a while but haven't used it yet, my main sticking point was making sure it would be compatible with my Sigma Dimensions rescale. So if I didn't have to worry about compatibility I probably would have already started using it.